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#1
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/u-of-m-president-critical-of-union-as-strike-looms-228295181.html

So its basically the University Administration vs the faculty association.

Been getting a bunch of propaganda sent to my University email address from both sides of this fiasco.

Administration statement and the Faculty statement

Important tidbits:

Quote by administration
The University of Manitoba has offered our faculty a four-year agreement with an 8.9 per cent salary increase. It is important that we compensate our faculty fairly and competitively. Our proposed four-year agreement would ensure long-term stability and certainty for our students. I want to be clear that we have not put forward anything in this bargaining process that would erode the academic freedom enjoyed by our faculty. We have not proposed a performance management system for UMFA members. Nor have we introduced any restrictions on research for UMFA members.

We have suggested moving to binding arbitration to take the threat of a strike off the table. Arbitration would ensure the uninterrupted continuation of the academic year. This process would require UMFA and the University to present their cases to a third-party who would have the authority to mandate an agreement.
Quote by Faculty
However, we are at a serious impasse on several matters: academic freedom; privacy of email and other correspondence; whether the administration can use evaluative measures to restrict the kind of research that will be valued here; and whether collegial governance principles will be respected when setting promotion and tenure criteria and weightings. There has been a steady erosion of collegial governance over the last few years and a decreasing respect for the opinions, views, and beliefs of the academic community here at the University of Manitoba. We are fighting that trend.


I feel really screwed over right now. Currently taking 4 courses this semester, and it looks like the profs of 2 of them won't teach for the duration of the strike. I, however, need to keep up with course material on my own which sucks dick.


So like what are your thoughts on the matter? Have you ever gone on strike, or experienced a strike at your place of work/study
ggg1 ggg3

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#2
I was on strike just this week actually.

You'll have a much easier time with your professors if you show solidarity for their cause.
#3
Enroll in another uni after this semester. Get as many students as you can to do the same.
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Last edited by zappp : Today at 4:20 PM. Reason: Suck on my balls, UG
#4
What is your question?
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#7
Quote by Colgate Total
Enroll in another uni after this semester. Get as many students as you can to do the same.


How is that in any way a good idea?
#8
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
I was on strike just this week actually.

You'll have a much easier time with your professors if you show solidarity for their cause.


A student's job isn't to show solidarity for their teacher's cause. But a teacher's job is to teach. If you're going to strike, wait until the end of a ****ing semester instead of screwing over the students who have paid tuition.

It's an immature and selfish move, and if my teachers went on strike, you better believe their houses would be so ****ing vandalized that they'd return to work.
#9
Quote by behind_you
last sentence

I have not ever witnessed a strike.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#10
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
I was on strike just this week actually.

You'll have a much easier time with your professors if you show solidarity for their cause.
Why did you strike? What kind of issues did you want resolved?

I don't think showing solidarity to my professors would make a difference at this point. Funny thing is, the profs of my courses that will continue throughout the strike couldn't care less about everything that is going on. Makes me think the issues aren't as big as they seem.
ggg1 ggg3

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#11
The students of my school organised a school wide strike for a week a few years ago in solidarity with union rallies.

Teachers over here take a few days strike every year to show face. Haven't experienced anything longer than that though. Teachers deserve higher salaries though. I'd support them.
#12
Quote by progdude93
A student's job isn't to show solidarity for their teacher's cause. But a teacher's job is to teach. If you're going to strike, wait until the end of a ****ing semester instead of screwing over the students who have paid tuition.
lolwut

The administration isn't pressured that way.

If they strike for too long, they are required by law to cancel the semester and refund everyone's tuition fees. That's a shit ton of money and nobody wants that to happen, especially not the big suits.

Quote by progdude93
It's an immature and selfish move, and if my teachers went on strike, you better believe their houses would be so ****ing vandalized that they'd return to work.
rofl
ggg1 ggg3

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#13
Quote by progdude93
A student's job isn't to show solidarity for their teacher's cause. But a teacher's job is to teach. If you're going to strike, wait until the end of a ****ing semester instead of screwing over the students who have paid tuition.

It's an immature and selfish move, and if my teachers went on strike, you better believe their houses would be so ****ing vandalized that they'd return to work.


Glad I don't teach you, you spoilt little brat.


Striking is always a last resort. It's not the teachers' fault, it is the administration who force them into striking by point-blank refusing to negotiate.


Behind_you, we went on strike because the English education secretary keeps ****ing our pay and conditions up. He has reduced pensions, frozen pay and introduced a really stupid performance-related element which is deliberately based on impossible targets to keep wages low.

He has allowed unqualified staff into schools, allowed any old twat off the street to open a school, completely wrecked the primary curriculum and really damaged the subject I teach, to the point where every year he changes the gcse grade boundaries and refuses to tell us what they are. I have classes filled with kids who have no idea what grade their work is thanks to that arsehole.

He is belligerent and refuses to engage with the unions so we had to strike.
#14
Quote by behind_you
lolwut

The administration isn't pressured that way.

If they strike for too long, they are required by law to cancel the semester and refund everyone's tuition fees. That's a shit ton of money and nobody wants that to happen, especially not the big suits.


Yeah, but if the semester is cancelled, then the students are SOL and their lives are put on hold for another 6 ****ing months. Don't you see how ridiculous that is? Also, I doubt they refund costs like food and rent, which students likely wouldn't be paying if they lived at home.
#15
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Glad I don't teach you, you spoilt little brat.


Likewise. I prefer intelligent teachers, instead of dumb frosty cunts. I pay for college myself, and if the teachers decided to **** over the lives of 40,000 students so they could have better pay, then **** them. Strike before the semester gets underway; don't start in the ****ing middle. Try a class action lawsuit. Don't **** over the students, as they've done nothing wrong.

Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Striking is always a last resort. It's not the teachers' fault, it is the administration who force them into striking by point-blank refusing to negotiate.


Really? So what measures were taken before the strike? Did you trying a class action lawsuit?

And were all these measures taken before the year started?
#16
Quote by progdude93
Yeah, but if the semester is cancelled, then the students are SOL and their lives are put on hold for another 6 ****ing months. Don't you see how ridiculous that is? Also, I doubt they refund costs like food and rent, which students likely wouldn't be paying if they lived at home.
I never said it wasn't ridiculous

I'm just saying that UMFA won't see any results if they strike during a holiday.
ggg1 ggg3

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#17
They still have two days of conciliation left before they're actually striking, it could very easily not happen. And even if they do strike, I doubt it would be for very long because there's no way the Administration would want to have the semester come close to be in jeopardy, especially when money is barely an issue.

EDIT: I go to UofM too btw.
#18
Quote by progdude93
Likewise. I prefer intelligent teachers, instead of dumb frosty cunts. I pay for college myself, and if the teachers decided to **** over the lives of 40,000 students so they could have better pay, then **** them. Strike before the semester gets underway; don't start in the ****ing middle. Try a class action lawsuit. Don't **** over the students, as they've done nothing wrong.


Really? So what measures were taken before the strike? Did you trying a class action lawsuit?

And were all these measures taken before the year started?


Baww poor spoilt ickle rich boy.


Yes all of the above were done - when I said he refused to negotiate, that is what I meant. He refused to engage in any action or discussion so we had to strike.

The unions involved were NUT and NASUWT if you want to read up on it.
#19
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
They still have two days of conciliation left before they're actually striking, it could very easily not happen. And even if they do strike, I doubt it would be for very long because there's no way the Administration would want to have the semester come close to be in jeopardy, especially when money is barely an issue.

EDIT: I go to UofM too btw.
omg a fellow umer

My professor on thursday told the class that if things don't get settled by the end of Friday, it's pretty much guaranteed. She's one of the biggest supporters of this strike, from what I can tell.
ggg1 ggg3

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#20
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Baww poor spoilt ickle rich boy.


Yes all of the above were done - when I said he refused to negotiate, that is what I meant. He refused to engage in any action or discussion so we had to strike.

The unions involved were NUT and NASUWT if you want to read up on it.

Completely missing the point. The guy pays for tuition himself. Don't strike him out of his money. He is not rich.

Want more money? Find another job.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#21
Quote by behind_you
I never said it wasn't ridiculous

I'm just saying that UMFA won't see any results if they strike during a holiday.


If they start on holiday, let everyone know they won't be teaching, and then continue into the school year, then students have the opportunity to unenroll, deregister, or transfer. Attendance would shoot down, and the impact would be the same, except far fewer students would be ****ed over.

I really don't see how you can argue that causing thousands of students lives to be put on hold for 6 months is justified. The teachers who continue to teach during the strike are the ones whose priorities are in order.
#22
^What is this six months number?
Quote by behind_you
omg a fellow umer

My professor on thursday told the class that if things don't get settled by the end of Friday, it's pretty much guaranteed. She's one of the biggest supporters of this strike, from what I can tell.

That's interesting to hear. I don't have any professors that really seem to care. I imagine most of them would cross early on because of performance commitments. I'm in music and most of my friends said that their private lessons teachers were going to keep on teaching anyway.
Last edited by jazz_rock_feel at Oct 19, 2013,
#23
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Glad I don't teach you, you spoilt little brat.

Screwing over people paying tuition for minimal benefits isn't spoiled behaviour in the slightest
#24
Professors make plenty of money. Students do not. That's all that needs to be said.
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#25
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Baww poor spoilt ickle rich boy.


Christ, I wish.... You must be a great teacher.

Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Yes all of the above were done - when I said he refused to negotiate, that is what I meant. He refused to engage in any action or discussion so we had to strike.

The unions involved were NUT and NASUWT if you want to read up on it.


He doesn't get to refuse to engage in a class action lawsuit. In Florida, they instituted an evaluation system that was highly flawed. So instead of striking, the teachers sued to block the evaluation system.

If your contracts are being violated, if your bosses are operating in bad faith, then sue the hell out of them. Otherwise, you're punishing the students more than the people you're trying to punish.


Also, I understand that UofM will reimburse students for tuition, but what happens if the students took out loans? Do they pay for interest as well?


Quote by jazz_rock_feel
^What is this six months number?


If teachers strike in the middle of a semester (average semester being roughly 4.5 months), then you've already gone through 2.25 months of the semester, then the semester is cancelled, and then you have to wait an additional 2.25 months for the semester to be over, until you can get to the next semester and continue your education. All in all, it's putting your life on hold for roughly 6 months until you can be back right where you were.
Last edited by progdude93 at Oct 19, 2013,
#26
Faculty are fighting for a good cause but it's an uphill battle. A university where academia is in the hands of the administration rather than the professors is not one worth attending but that seems to be the trend.
#27
Quote by progdude93
If they start on holiday, let everyone know they won't be teaching, and then continue into the school year, then students have the opportunity to unenroll, deregister, or transfer. Attendance would shoot down, and the impact would be the same, except far fewer students would be ****ed over.
The only other university in this city is the University of Winnipeg, and that's 30+ minutes away (worse if you consider traffic) from most of the people who current go to U of M.

Consider that, and the fact that winters here are brutal as ****, and the fact that university parking is really bad. I don't think the migration to UofW would be anywhere near as large as you predict.

Quote by progdude93
I really don't see how you can argue that causing thousands of students lives to be put on hold for 6 months is justified.
wait what where did i say this
ggg1 ggg3

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#28
That part wasn't directed at you.

Quote by Neo Evil11
Completely missing the point. The guy pays for tuition himself. Don't strike him out of his money. He is not rich.

Want more money? Find another job.


I pay a bit over 20,000USD a year for the "privilege" to attend my school (including rent 'n' stuff). Much of it in loans, the rest of it with money that I saved up over years of working, when I didn't spend a single ****ing dime because I was saving it for college rather than spending it on myself.

**** me, right? How dare I expect that my money will get me educated **** the little guy over; he deserves it.
Last edited by progdude93 at Oct 19, 2013,
#29
Quote by progdude93

If teachers strike in the middle of a semester (average semester being roughly 4.5 months), then you've already gone through 2.25 months of the semester, then the semester is cancelled, and then you have to wait an additional 2.25 months for the semester to be over, until you can get to the next semester and continue your education. All in all, it's putting your life on hold for roughly 6 months until you can be back right where you were.

But they would have to strike for a really long time for the semester to actually be totally voided. Strikes don't usually last that long. Last year another university in the province striked for 45 days or something like that and they didn't lose their semester. In fact one of the stats that's being trotted out by the Student's Union is that no semester has ever been lost due to a strike in Canada. It's not like they strike for a couple weeks and the whole world goes to shit.
#30
Are they still teaching?

EDIT: Nevermind. It's shitty that they won't teach and that a students education is nearly a bargaining chip, especially given the ludicrous cost of college education.
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Last edited by Dreadnought at Oct 19, 2013,
#31
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
But they would have to strike for a really long time for the semester to actually be totally voided. Strikes don't usually last that long. Last year another university in the province striked for 45 days or something like that and they didn't lose their semester. In fact one of the stats that's being trotted out by the Student's Union is that no semester has ever been lost due to a strike in Canada. It's not like they strike for a couple weeks and the whole world goes to shit.


Okay, so that's good/better than I thought.

But still.. I pay for school so my teachers can teach me the material. Obviously, I do work outside of class, but the primary directive of a school is to educate. I shouldn't have to learn all the shit on my own. If I do, I may as well go to DeVry online college..

Especially since the reason I chose my school was because the programs I'm going there for are among the best.

Quote by Dreadnought
Are they still teaching?


From a previous comment, I assume that some are teaching, and some are not.
#33
Quote by progdude93
That part wasn't directed at you.


I pay a bit over 20,000USD a year for the "privilege" to attend my school (including rent 'n' stuff). Much of it in loans, the rest of it with money that I saved up over years of working, when I didn't spend a single ****ing dime because I was saving it for college rather than spending it on myself.

**** me, right? How dare I expect that my money will get me educated **** the little guy over; he deserves it.

I completely understand your concern. You'd expect a strike to only last a few days though.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#34
Quote by progdude93
It's an immature and selfish move, and if my teachers went on strike, you better believe their houses would be so ****ing vandalized that they'd return to work.

Sure they would be, big man.
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#35
Quote by I.O.T.M
Sure they would be, big man.

It's funny that you're the guy saying that.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#36
Quote by I.O.T.M
Sure they would be, big man.


I'm American. Which means I pay a ****ton more for school than you do. In fact, going to college in America is essentially a gamble that you're going to make enough money because of your college education to be able to pay off your loans and not live in crippling debt. So I've got a bunch more at stake here.

Not to mention that if a semester were to be cancelled, I'd technically have to start paying back my student loans early, because you have to start paying your loans once you're not in school for 6 months.

Quote by Neo Evil11
I completely understand your concern. You'd expect a strike to only last a few days though.


Yeah, that's not too bad. More like a student vacation than a strike.
#37
Yeah unions are a double edged sword. On one hand they're the only thing standing between me and sub-minimum wage, on the other they are complete bitches about exactly everything.

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#38
My neighbor is a union workers, and he constantly laughs about how ridiculously inefficient and awful unions are. Like, they need to mow a lawn, which requires one person on a riding mower, and there are three dudes chilling around doing nothing. And they're all on drugs, too.
#39
Quote by Dreadnought
It's shitty that they won't teach and that a students education is nearly a bargaining chip, especially given the ludicrous cost of college education.

I don't understand that view. That's their job, and so if an employment issue arises, the only bargaining chip they have.

What else are they meant to negotiate with?
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Quote by element4433
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