#1
Ok so was looking to Metallica cover's came across this, really liked his tone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qp_sdPDKmU

However i still can't work out what it is about some amps which means they can dish out that metal crunch tone, my amp can give a ok metal tone, it has the gain and the high end attack, but what it lacks is that 'punch' or Metal tone

Does the crunch come from a particular setting on the EQ?

Note i'm not asking for settings for a Metallica style crunch just mean in general, cos although i would like a Metallica crunch, any form of crunch would be good

Amp: Roland 20XL was thinking about getting a cheap Digitech pedal to see if that can give me the crunch i've been looking for
Last edited by Tcrumpen at Oct 20, 2013,
#2
The circuit of the amp has a huge impact on the sounds and tone a certain amp can produce, but you have to be able to play that style of music.

But the drummer and bassist give the music the body and feel.
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#3
First thing that screams to me is a new amp, but that costs money.

Could go into a guitar shop and try out all the different pedals to see which one gives you the sound you are after.
Unless you have a load of money going id get a new amp.
But you should be able to tweak your current amp to get a similar kinda sound.
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#4
I guess the old skool "bedroom metalhead" way would be turning down the mid-range and cranking the bass and treble, with no reverb at all. Doing so will give you that tharshy "And Justice For All" sound: dry as a nun's minge and harsher than a North Korean gym teacher. Thing is tho: some guitars and amps are better suited for that type of music than others. A lot of hollowbodies and as a general rule guitars with overly trebly or low output pickups (especially those that are prone to humming) will just get you a muddy or just plain unpleasant sound. Same goes for the amp: if it's overly bassy, has a crappy speaker, isn't suited for gainy stuff, etc. even hooking up a spectacular guitar will only get you up to a certain point, tone-wise

I for one am not a huge fan of the thrashy solid state sound. I mean, I love me some Dimebag and playing around with a tone similar to his can be a lot of fun, but I couldn't see myself recording an entire record like that. What I'll usually end up doing is use those settings I mentioned earlier (having your bass and treble at AT LEAST twelve o'clock) and then depart from there, usually towards a more Tool-ish territory. I'll usually dial in quite a bit of mids as well because it just gives you a bigger sound (I don't mind sacrificing some tightness along the way) then perhaps a little bit of treble... I'll usually check if I like my tone both with the volume control on my guitar at 10 and also when it's rolled down a bit

If you're just looking to fool around a bit then yeah, maybe a stompbox might suffice (I'm a big fan of the Blackstar HT models and the more OD-ish Fulltones like the OCD, not so much of the cheapish sounding Digitech and Boss-like pedals) but if you want something truly satisfactory you might wanna look into some better amps. If you're planning to keep your current amp at least bring it to the guitar store if they don't already have that model because you're not gonna get a good impression of what sound you're gonna get out of a certain pedal if you try it on some expensive high end amplifier

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Last edited by shwilly at Oct 20, 2013,
#5
A lot of it is playing style, being able to play with the same feel and intensity as the people who made the metal you like. Whenever I record stuff for the band I try to play guitar like I'm a Viking coming to pillage because it really effects the presence of your tone.

The other is a lot of tweaking. I'm not saying you can't get a decent metal sound out of your amp, because you can, but it takes a lot of tweaking. Pick songs where you really like the tone and listen along to them while EQing your amp to get it as close as possible. Its here where you'll find out what your amp is missing. Then you can better address any problems.
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#7
tubes
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#10
Quote by jkielq91
I have the amp you have. Put it on the metal or metal stack setting.

Experiment with palm muting at different amounts to find a good chug.

Also use a harder pick like a jazz iii and your guitars bridge pick up.

i atm have it on the Extreme setting, and i can get the gain but not the punch and right now i'm using a freebie pick i got from Mosh they are actually not bad, quick thick (i think like 2mm) but they strong
#11
Quote by evmac
A lot of it is playing style, being able to play with the same feel and intensity as the people who made the metal you like. Whenever I record stuff for the band I try to play guitar like I'm a Viking coming to pillage because it really effects the presence of your tone.

The other is a lot of tweaking. I'm not saying you can't get a decent metal sound out of your amp, because you can, but it takes a lot of tweaking. Pick songs where you really like the tone and listen along to them while EQing your amp to get it as close as possible. Its here where you'll find out what your amp is missing. Then you can better address any problems.

That's what i've been trying to do, but i can't put my finger on what it's missing, gonna be taking my setup to a music shop later this week hopefully, so maybe the people there can guide me into a pedal that can compromise what it lacks, i know i can get a metal tone from it, i can get a fairly good tone for Enter Sandman and For Whom The Bell Tolls, but Orion requires something slightly different from the amp
#12
how loudly are you playing? tubes are most likely what you want (in my experience, anyway), but a bit of volume goes a long way even if you don't have tubes.

EDIT: you're using a bridge humbucker, right?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#13
Well... he's using several thousand dollars worth of amps, and you're using a $180 amp.

That's the problem.


This is also a fairly professional sounding recording, which undoubtedly has a good bit of post-processing. The fatness of his guitar is also coming from the bass.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
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#14
Quote by Dave_Mc
how loudly are you playing? tubes are most likely what you want (in my experience, anyway), but a bit of volume goes a long way even if you don't have tubes.

EDIT: you're using a bridge humbucker, right?

I'm not playing too loud i'm in uni accomodation so can't have it window shattering loud, and yes if bridge is the "treble" labelled pickup on the pickup selector then yes
#15
Quote by MatrixClaw
Well... he's using several thousand dollars worth of amps, and you're using a $180 amp.

That's the problem.


This is also a fairly professional sounding recording, which undoubtedly has a good bit of post-processing. The fatness of his guitar is also coming from the bass.

+1000

Start off by getting yourself a good tube amp that is designed for higher gain, and then invest in a good overdrive like a Tubescreamer to tighten up your low end.
#16
Quote by MatrixClaw
Well... he's using several thousand dollars worth of amps, and you're using a $180 amp.

That's the problem.


This is also a fairly professional sounding recording, which undoubtedly has a good bit of post-processing. The fatness of his guitar is also coming from the bass.


yeah

Quote by Tcrumpen
I'm not playing too loud i'm in uni accomodation so can't have it window shattering loud, and yes if bridge is the "treble" labelled pickup on the pickup selector then yes


yeah treble should be the bridge pickup

if you're in university accomodation you might just have to put up with it. you not going to be able to get any amount of volume there, and buying a tube amp for that kind of situation might not be the most sensible...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#17
Quote by Dave_Mc
yeah


yeah treble should be the bridge pickup

if you're in university accomodation you might just have to put up with it. you not going to be able to get any amount of volume there, and buying a tube amp for that kind of situation might not be the most sensible...

Which is why i thought a stompbox might be a short term solution, was thinking a Digitech one, now i have no idea what it will sound ;ike with my setup but luckily i know a guitar shop that has the stompbozes in store and hopefully i can try them out
#18
yeah. make sure you try them with your amp. I've never really tried dirt boxes with modelling amps, but modelling amps have a bit of a rep of not working so well with dirt boxes. whether that's true or not,

whether it'll sound any better than the metal stack setting on your cube is also kinda up in the air.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#19
Quote by Dave_Mc
yeah. make sure you try them with your amp. I've never really tried dirt boxes with modelling amps, but modelling amps have a bit of a rep of not working so well with dirt boxes. whether that's true or not,

whether it'll sound any better than the metal stack setting on your cube is also kinda up in the air.

I don't understand why that is, surley if i just have it on the clean channel and soley use the stomp box for the dirty tones, it's not even going through the COSM section of the , so surley it would behave just like and stompbox set-up
#20
It depends. As you said, some modellers do have genuine clean channels with no modelling- the voxes do, I think (at least my mini3 does, anyway). I'm not sure if the roland one is like that, I'm not sure if the JC Clean channel is modelled or not.

Though even if it does have a non-modelling clean channel, there's no guarantee a dirt pedal will sound better than your high gain amp models on your amp. Most people would say that dirt boxes sound better through tube amps.

That's not to put you off- it's worth a try if you can try a bunch of pedals with your amp. Just don't expect it to definitely solve your problems, and if you don't think pedals sound any better than your amp alone, don't buy anything. We just don't want you to waste your money.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#21
Quote by Dave_Mc
It depends. As you said, some modellers do have genuine clean channels with no modelling- the voxes do, I think (at least my mini3 does, anyway). I'm not sure if the roland one is like that, I'm not sure if the JC Clean channel is modelled or not.

Though even if it does have a non-modelling clean channel, there's no guarantee a dirt pedal will sound better than your high gain amp models on your amp. Most people would say that dirt boxes sound better through tube amps.

That's not to put you off- it's worth a try if you can try a bunch of pedals with your amp. Just don't expect it to definitely solve your problems, and if you don't think pedals sound any better than your amp alone, don't buy anything. We just don't want you to waste your money.

Yeah well right now i cna't seem to put my finger on what it is that my amp is missing, i know it's something, but i can't quite put my finger on it, might just be the fact that i's a cheapish amp so ...
#22
Yeah that's probably it, unfortunately. and it's a judgement call as to whether to spend some money which may result in slight improvements, or just put up with it until you're in a situation where you can get something which would be an actual big improvement. It's up to you, really.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#23
you're not going to get anywhere near that tone with a 20 watt modeller - and it'd be a hard tone to cop live anyway. i'm going to recommend you what i recommend everyone living in a dorm and wants half decent tone - POD and headphones.
#25
I would seriously consider getting a Vypyr Tube 60. It has great metal and clean settings out of the gate. The built in effects are more than passable and it also takes most types of pedals well. Some of the amp models (like the JSX, Recto and Diezel models) have a nice 3D processed sound if you have some delay and noise gate dialed in just right.

Super tight. Juicy on the inside, crunchy on the outside. Loud enough for gigging and quiet enough for late night bedroom hijinx.

Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Oct 21, 2013,
#26
what gives THAT guy a metal crunch? A tube screamer running into a 5150.
#27
Dirty Little Secret?

It Ain't Tubes.

No and hell no.

Talk to Dino Cazares of Fear Factory. Last several albums have been done on a Line 6 Flippin' Pod. Matter of fact, half (maybe more) of the metal bands in LA have modelers.

So what gives them the crunch? Honestly, it's good technique with galloping palm muting and a good set of mikes on the kick and bass.

The newbs try to get that sound in their bedrooms by running smiley-face EQ (dropped mids), but when you've got a band (or a recording environment) you begin to realize that all that "brootalz" bottom end is doing nothing more than creating a sonic mud pudding. So the recording engineers EQ it out. Back to mids with the guitars. The bass gets to play bass and the kick gets to provide punch.
#28
In your situation, just go buy something like a Pod HD500, a good pair of headphones and a 100W+ powered foldback wedge for the times that you want to play with a drummer. Then when you have your own place (and a job) start thinking about proper gigging metal amps like a Mesa Recto or 6505.
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