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#1
So, after the front page article on vinyl yesterday that seemed to attract masses of ill-informed comments (what's new there? ) I decided I couldn't just settle for a few snarky replies because I'm an arsehole and feel the world would be a better place with a little less ignorance. If you don't want to develop an urge to punch me in the face, or you're an impatient person, maybe you should skip this thread!


Anyway, I was just wondering what The Pit knows, and what The Pit thinks it knows about vinyl as a format, and relative to digital formats such as CD's and MP3's. I'm expecting an absolute shitstorm, but everybody likes a good ol' fashioned heated argument debate, right?


Go!


inb4 'You suck/this thread sucks', 'Wost thread ever' & 'Can't inb4 in OP'
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#2
I was about to copy/paste exactly what you said on the News article, but decided not to.

Here's what I do know though. If everything in the recording process is analogue, vinyl's will be the best (on the first play, because after the grooves get worn, they get scratched, etc). But if the recordings are done digitally, vinyl's are inferior to lossless digital files, as those files don't degrade nearly as quickly per play as the vinyls will.

Hope that's right

They are definitely a novelty though, and it's fun to just be like "look I have vinyls".
#3
I like vynils for the collection aspect of it. Album liners come with cool shit and there's tons of great artwork on the record sleeve. Come at me.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#4
I know all about it because I'm a Music Tech student and Dub head so course mi know bout di bloodclaat dubplates

Not a fan though other than for kinda soppy nostalgic soundclash reasons
#5
vinyl is like cds except the sound is "Physical" as opposed to "computed"

They sound sooo much better because of this, even when using a 5 dollar record player connected to speakers you found outiside your neighbors house

They stopped making vynils because evil record companies new CDS and MP3s were cheaper to "make" (read: digitize)

Only recently have LaserDiscs made a comeback thanks to hipster bands like Mumford & Sons
#6
^ You best be trollin', boy

Quote by Baby Joel
I was about to copy/paste exactly what you said on the News article, but decided not to.

Here's what I do know though. If everything in the recording process is analogue, vinyl's will be the best (on the first play, because after the grooves get worn, they get scratched, etc). But if the recordings are done digitally, vinyl's are inferior to lossless digital files, as those files don't degrade nearly as quickly per play as the vinyls will.

Hope that's right

They are definitely a novelty though, and it's fun to just be like "look I have vinyls".

That's not too bad, and definitely better than much of the comments in the article I wouldn't really disagree about vinyls being great if everything is recorded in the analogue domain, assuming you want to retain the analogue feel, although it's worth pointing out that it will still sound different to the mix that is bounced to tape during the mix process.

As for the novelty, I don't dispute that at all - I don't dislike vinyl, my band have even released two vinyls (obviously they're also available on CD and for download, vinyl is only a limited run of 500 for each) so I'm not against the format at all - but I'm mainly bothered when people make all these insane claims about vinyl as though we should take several technological steps backward and use technology that is long-outdated as the premier format for everything.

I mean, vinyl has its own appeal and aspects of it are great, but if it was perfect we wouldn't have bothered to develop new formats that can improve on it
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#7
I love vinyls due to the romantic/nostalgic/whatever factor, and that it makes 'listening to music' an activity for me once again. I like to collect 'em, I like to listen to 'em. I generally love vinyl on new releases as well, because I feel a lot of modern mastering is done in an almost sterile way; The 'impurities' (if you will) vinyl brings with it seem to make me connect to it more. Also, yes, I realize a lot of albums get re-mastered for vinyl, but my preference remains the same.
Tell me who's that writin'...
#8
Those are all great reasons to listen to vinyl. You have passed the test, go forth and celebrate with merry wonderment!
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#10
I know I like to collect them cuz they're cool.

That's all I really need to know.
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
#12
Still play my vinyls, apart from my Sex Pistols god save the queen its worth £500+
You hit 'em and they get back up
I hit 'em and they stay down
- Frank Castle
#13
Quote by WCPhils
I know I like to collect them cuz they're cool.

That's all I really need to know.

I also know Ian will come into this thread and I'll go tell him to eat his diaper or smth cuz it's fun
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
#14
I think they're cool to collect, my turntable sucks so I don't have much to say over audio quality.
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#15
Quote by Kylianvb
I love vinyls due to the romantic/nostalgic/whatever factor, and that it makes 'listening to music' an activity for me once again. I like to collect 'em, I like to listen to 'em. I generally love vinyl on new releases as well, because I feel a lot of modern mastering is done in an almost sterile way; The 'impurities' (if you will) vinyl brings with it seem to make me connect to it more. Also, yes, I realize a lot of albums get re-mastered for vinyl, but my preference remains the same.


Basically this.
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#16
I don't really think listening to music is an activity in its own right, so vinyls are pretty worthless to me.

Also, I don't buy any of the "it's more authentic" crap that people who love vinyls blurt on about.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#18
vinyls are gay because they are inferior
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If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#19
Quote by angusfan16
They make for good frisbees

And zombie attack weapons
You hit 'em and they get back up
I hit 'em and they stay down
- Frank Castle
#20
Vinyl is stupid and an inferior format.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#21
Vinyl is awesome. I love the album art work. I love working on old systems, fixing them up etc. To me it's like collecting classic cars. Sure a 67' Porsche doesn't have all the features of a modern day Ferrari but you'll meet many a collector who would rather have the Porsche. Just because something is more compact, cheaper etc. doesn't necessarily make it better.
#22
Vinyl is great because it's so crackely you can't hear the music, that's why we buy music right? So we can't hear all the details in the song?
Damn hipsters.
#23
The problem with Vinyl for me is that they can only store something like 20 minutes per side (Estimate based on the length of the tracks on Yes' Tales of Topographic Oceans which was originally one side per track on Vinyl, not on fact). Playing a Mahler symphony would be a nightmare, you'd have to keep getting up and flipping/changing the disc halfway through a movement.

CD is convenient, because it can store more on a single side of disc.

Digital is theoretically the best because I can cram hours of music onto a hardrive but MP3 ID tags are a load of shit.
.
#24
Quote by UltimateGuizar
Vinyl is great because it's so crackely you can't hear the music, that's why we buy music right? So we can't hear all the details in the song?
Damn hipsters.



Not sure what kind of crappy set up you've heard but when properly done it's clear as a bell. This whole hipster thing is ridiculous. I'm 27, I've been collecting vinyl since I was 14/15 and I restored a number of systems. It's a hobby. I love vinyl for a number of reasons but certainly didn't latch onto it because some emo or college kid decided it's cooler than CD's or MP3's.
I still have an iPod and love it but vinyl is definitely my favorite format.
#25
Quote by UltimateGuizar
Vinyl is great because it's so crackely you can't hear the music, that's why we buy music right? So we can't hear all the details in the song?
Damn hipsters.

Why would it be crackely?
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
#26
Quote by WCPhils
Why would it be crackely?


Static buildupand poorly maintained styli.

Anyhoos. Vinyl records, IN THEORY should hold 'more' information. BUT, and here's the big but, how well is your turntable set up? Do you have the player sat between your speakers? Is it isolated? How fine is the stylus? How clean is the stylus? Ever consider the wow and flutter of your deck? The tracking of the cartridge? The azimuth? VTA? Elliptical or spherical stylus? How about your phono stage? Can you adjust the gain to match your cartridge?

I could go on, but I'm going to guarantee that very few of you get 'more' from your vinyl records in a technical sense than you would a CD.
#27
I do hope Ian eventually sees this and posts, can't remember if he's banned or not at the moment though as I haven't been around much until the last few days


Anyway, to answer the 'crackly audio' thing, vinyl (as any analogue/'physical world' medium) has its impurities and imperfections - many people love these things, and feel it adds something etc. - but one side effect of vinyl is the inevitable cracks and pops that develop as the grooves are worn away by the needle.

Obviously modern day vinyl production has developed a little, and a brand new vinyl bought today should be relatively clean, but there is truth to what was said about the crackles, even if they are barely audible at first (and as a psycho-acoustic byproduct of the human auditory system, most people will probably not notice minor imperfections in the audio after a few minutes of listening, as the brain automatically ignores information it decides is not important, similar to the AC unit or refrigerator you never notice the noise from until you focus on it).


Edit: Deliriumbassist, I think I love you
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#28
From what I've heard, there's literally no reason vinyl is better than CDs or Blu-Rays except for the cooler collection aspect and cos record players are cool as ****.

But I'm no expert
#29
Quote by DisarmGoliath
I do hope Ian eventually sees this and posts, can't remember if he's banned or not at the moment though as I haven't been around much until the last few days


Anyway, to answer the 'crackly audio' thing, vinyl (as any analogue/'physical world' medium) has its impurities and imperfections - many people love these things, and feel it adds something etc. - but one side effect of vinyl is the inevitable cracks and pops that develop as the grooves are worn away by the needle.

Obviously modern day vinyl production has developed a little, and a brand new vinyl bought today should be relatively clean, but there is truth to what was said about the crackles, even if they are barely audible at first (and as a psycho-acoustic byproduct of the human auditory system, most people will probably not notice minor imperfections in the audio after a few minutes of listening, as the brain automatically ignores information it decides is not important, similar to the AC unit or refrigerator you never notice the noise from until you focus on it).


Edit: Deliriumbassist, I think I love you




What can I say, I'm a hifi guy. My phono stage alone costs more than most people's entire systems. Hell, I drop a few hundred quid when I replace my cartridge (MC, not a replaceable stylus). I have sold one of the most expensive CD players in production. But hey, I guess hipsters are more qualified than I am
#30
Quote by DisarmGoliath
I do hope Ian eventually sees this and posts, can't remember if he's banned or not at the moment though as I haven't been around much until the last few days


Anyway, to answer the 'crackly audio' thing, vinyl (as any analogue/'physical world' medium) has its impurities and imperfections - many people love these things, and feel it adds something etc. - but one side effect of vinyl is the inevitable cracks and pops that develop as the grooves are worn away by the needle.

Obviously modern day vinyl production has developed a little, and a brand new vinyl bought today should be relatively clean, but there is truth to what was said about the crackles, even if they are barely audible at first (and as a psycho-acoustic byproduct of the human auditory system, most people will probably not notice minor imperfections in the audio after a few minutes of listening, as the brain automatically ignores information it decides is not important, similar to the AC unit or refrigerator you never notice the noise from until you focus on it).


Edit: Deliriumbassist, I think I love you



Ah modern vinyl, I've never heard any. I was referring to my mothers old Elvis records and the first ones I bought (Twisted Sister- Stay Hungry)
#31
I don't have a vinyl player, so haven't listened to much in a while, but the few vinyls I own are all ones released in the last 5 years, and sound fine, albeit a little less 'air' and detail in the high-end. And seeing as I mixed one of the albums that I have on vinyl, I can attest to the differences between the CD release, the mix project on my computer, and the vinyl

Quote by Deliriumbassist


What can I say, I'm a hifi guy. My phono stage alone costs more than most people's entire systems. Hell, I drop a few hundred quid when I replace my cartridge (MC, not a replaceable stylus). I have sold one of the most expensive CD players in production. But hey, I guess hipsters are more qualified than I am

That's both awesome and scary I'm intrigued though - you clearly enjoy the physical aspect of the vinyl format and presumably enjoy the experience on the whole, but do you have a similarly pro-level system for CD's and digital filetypes?
Hey, look. Sigs are back.
#32
Cassette tapes have way more character than vinyl and are more nostalgic.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#33
Quote by theogonia777
Cassette tapes have way more character than vinyl and are more nostalgic.



I remember when we used to put tape over the tabs on the top of them so we could record over them, then after too many recordings all the songs could be heard through each other.
Then maxell started selling 90 minute tapes, everyone was WTF?
#34
Quote by DisarmGoliath
I don't have a vinyl player, so haven't listened to much in a while, but the few vinyls I own are all ones released in the last 5 years, and sound fine, albeit a little less 'air' and detail in the high-end. And seeing as I mixed one of the albums that I have on vinyl, I can attest to the differences between the CD release, the mix project on my computer, and the vinyl


That's both awesome and scary I'm intrigued though - you clearly enjoy the physical aspect of the vinyl format and presumably enjoy the experience on the whole, but do you have a similarly pro-level system for CD's and digital filetypes?


For digital based media, I run a fully blown Cyrus system with a streamer/preamp, CD transport (uses the DAC in the streamer/pre) and two 300w monobloc amplifiers. The transport and the streamer also have separate offboard power supplies. All this into a pair of Kef R900 speakers.
#35
Quote by Deliriumbassist
For digital based media, I run a fully blown Cyrus system with a streamer/preamp, CD transport (uses the DAC in the streamer/pre) and two 300w monobloc amplifiers. The transport and the streamer also have separate offboard power supplies. All this into a pair of Kef R900 speakers.

You, sir, have too much money - give me some! But seriously, sounds like an immense system, are you running a separate amp for each stereo channel then?

Also, I've never even listened to a pair of KEF speakers, but the price alone suggests they're of a similar standard to B&W etc. even if I can't personally attest to their clarity and detail
Hey, look. Sigs are back.
#36
Quote by DisarmGoliath
You, sir, have too much money - give me some! But seriously, sounds like an immense system, are you running a separate amp for each stereo channel then?

Also, I've never even listened to a pair of KEF speakers, but the price alone suggests they're of a similar standard to B&W etc. even if I can't personally attest to their clarity and detail


Kef are held in the same regard as B&W- in fact, Kef created the BBC's LS35/a monitor decades ago. Been to both factories, actually. Amazing trips they were. Listening to the B&W 800D speakers was amazing. No wonder Abbey Road uses them!

And yes, I'm running one amp for the left speaker, and one for the right. In theory, I could go whole hog and biamp each speaker, but that's another 6 odd grand
#37
Quote by Deliriumbassist
For digital based media, I run a fully blown Cyrus system with a streamer/preamp, CD transport (uses the DAC in the streamer/pre) and two 300w monobloc amplifiers. The transport and the streamer also have separate offboard power supplies. All this into a pair of Kef R900 speakers.


I reckon you just make up audio/technical sounding words whenever discussing audio systems and no-one here knows enough about them to confront you about it.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#38
Quote by Todd Hart
I reckon you just make up audio/technical sounding words whenever discussing audio systems and no-one here knows enough about them to confront you about it.


I actually prided myself on NOT doing that when I was selling such equipment Nominated for national salesperson of the year a couple of years back, and I'm sure it's because i wasn't a hifi dick/'audiophile.'
#39
If only he were making up the words, then I might feel better about my gear (even though my setup is tailored to mixing/sound engineering so is not the same sort of stuff) and the stuff I can afford Sadly, all the 'technical sounding words' he used are relevant to his statement, and make sense

And DB, do you have any pictures of your setup? Would be interesting to see, even if I would be overcome with more jealousy. Truth be told though, I'm in a rented apartment anyway so the living room (or any room, really) isn't ideal to get the best out of a high end system so I'd be throwing a lot of money down the drain, after taking reflections into account.
Hey, look. Sigs are back.
#40
Quote by DisarmGoliath
If only he were making up the words, then I might feel better about my gear (even though my setup is tailored to mixing/sound engineering so is not the same sort of stuff) and the stuff I can afford Sadly, all the 'technical sounding words' he used are relevant to his statement, and make sense

And DB, do you have any pictures of your setup? Would be interesting to see, even if I would be overcome with more jealousy. Truth be told though, I'm in a rented apartment anyway so the living room (or any room, really) isn't ideal to get the best out of a high end system so I'd be throwing a lot of money down the drain, after taking reflections into account.




That's before I went to monos and added the second offboard power supply, so now that system is 6 boxes rather than 4. And the cable is now much chunkier and better hidden the CD transport is currently back at the factory being updated to the newer version. That's the great thing about Cyrus- they all use the same chassis, and the design briefs always involve the ability to update previous models to new ones through factory upgrades.
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