#1
Hi guys.

For a Workout Routine ( the gym part ), do you think it's better to extract the exercises from actual songs so I have a more musical sounding exercise or it's better to go neutral and find/build exercises with the specific goal of making your muscles to workout?

I saw these series of practicing routines named Guitar Gym: [forbidden link] . They appear to be very neutral, but I don't know how good/bad this kind of training would be?

Thanks in advance, Ken
#2
It's better to make exercises focused on a specific movement or skill IMO. That way it's much better tailored to your needs than a pre-existing song. You can work on sounding musical separately, applying and combining techniques shouldn't be a problem.
Also you can make you exercises more challenging (=more useful) as musicians don't often write unnecessarily hard parts for themselves.
#3
Quote by Basti95
It's better to make exercises focused on a specific movement or skill IMO. That way it's much better tailored to your needs than a pre-existing song. You can work on sounding musical separately, applying and combining techniques shouldn't be a problem.
Also you can make you exercises more challenging (=more useful) as musicians don't often write unnecessarily hard parts for themselves.


Actually I know plenty of musicians who write stuff that's really hard for them to play and there's nothing to stop other people doing the same. Even if that wasn't the case, if you can't find something challenging to play in the music you listen to you're not listening to enough music.

Quite apart from that... why should you work on being musical separately when you don't have to? Working on songs that you find hard, or writing things that you know are hard, is just efficient use of your time.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#4
I'm always an advocate for practicing songs or anything musical instead of doing exercises. Want to improve on a particular technique? Find a song that uses that technique.

There is a quote that i like regarding this, but i can't remember who said it. The quote however was this. "As you practice, you play". If you practice exercises, your playing will sound like exercises. Being active in the local jazz and instrumental scene i can tell you this is the case, many people practice exercises instead of musical ideas, and it is very noticeable in their playing.

Musicality and technique does not have to be practiced separately. In my honest opinion i think you will benefit more from practicing both together.
Fusion and jazz musician, a fan of most music.

Quote by Guthrie Govan
“If you steal from one person it's theft, and if you steal from lots of people it's research”


Quote by Chick Corea
"Only play what you hear. If you don't hear anything, don't play anything."
#5
^ agreed.

that being said, a few targeted exercises (as long as most of what you're doing is musical) probably won't do any harm.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#6
Thanks for sharing your thoughts ... probably the bottom line is that each player will end up finding his/her own way of doing things and most probably by trial and error . But I'm always curious in finding optimized and/or better ways of doing things. There are other aspects that I consider very important also, like one should play/practice a song/exercise the right way otherwise he will be good at playing wrong, or in most cases fast playing is mixed with playing inaccurately. If we observe some fast passages, it is not something really fast, but the player is playing it so accurately and flawless that it appears to be fast (but of course sometimes it is insane fast) ...

This article is worth reading: Why the progress you make in the practice room seems to disappear overnight
#7
^ Yeah, i think it's analogous to taking advice on any matter- ask for as much advice as possible, take it all on board and consider it, but then tailor it to your own specific situation and your personality type and make it suit you and in the end make your own mind up. That's what I do, anyway.

EDIT: nice article, thanks for sharing it

I'd (cautiously- I'm no expert ) agree. You always hear about people with (IMO) crazy practise regimes, and they (sometimes) try to act like anyone who won't do that isn't committed or is lazy or whatever.

Now- I'll be the first to admit I'm lazy. And that I basically do what I want- if I want to learn a certain song, I learn it, if I don't, I won't. And I'm far from the best guitar player in the world.

At the same time, though, at least for me and my own situation and personality, I'm not convinced that those marathon practise sessions do any good. If I play for much more than an hour, I get tired, and diminishing returns start to set it pretty quickly. In fact, I'd say even worse than diminishing returns- I feel it's doing me more harm than good to practise or try to learn something when I'm too tired to do so properly. I'm not learning it as quickly as I would were I more alert, and I get more and more agitated and annoyed as it's not going as well as I think it should, and you want to aim for positive reinforcement.

Very rarely do I put in more than one session a day, and often I don't even play every day.

But personally I never much seem to suffer from the problems suggested in that article- if I can't play a piece right I don't sweat it, I put it away and come back tomorrow. More often than not, I'm better at it the next day, even though I haven't been practising it in the meantime. I'm not often aware of "having" something and then "losing" it.

If you ask me there's little point in doing "busywork". Work (or practise) smarter, not harder. And as that article implies, if you're not careful with (boring) repetitive exercises, you can be going through the motions if you're not careful. I've (very recently) started actually warming up before playing (LOL), and while I've noticed benefits, I've also noticed that, if you're not careful, you can end up being almost half-hypnotised by it- you're not actually thinking, you're doing drill after drill because it feels like "proper" practise and doesn't actually require much thought. it's like rearranging or tidying your desk instead of starting work on that essay, because you can kid yourself that it's still "real" work, and you can see more obvious instant benefits. But in the long run...
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Oct 30, 2013,
#8
Hey Dave_Mc, you raised some very interesting points that I share with you in a way or another.

- in respect of being Lazy, I would say that I'm lazy when I have to do things that I didn't understand very well its meaning, its benefits, etc or I actually don't believe in it, but once I'm convinced that's "the" thing to do, I'll do it ( I may eventually be wrong in my decision to do so, but that's another story, hehe )

- another thing I find it's important to be aware is that the way you practice/play is crucial, eg. if you practice wrong, you'll be good at playing wrong

- speed /accuracy: some passages are really fast, but most of the things that 'sounds' fast is actually executed by the player in a so flawless way that we think it's fast, so being precise is another thing to be aware. Plus reaching your natural speed. Some guys are by nature faster/slower than others, maybe your natural speed is fast enough?

- Fretboard visualization and navigation: another point of interest here. One article I found a few days ago (actually a dvd course) from an instructor named Fareed Haque where he demonstrates his own way for fretboard visualization and navigation: Fretboard Mastery System: 1 Octave Workout + 2 Octave Workout = Perpetual Motion is very interesting while being simple. I'll probably will order this course. Plus the way he explain modal sounds is just another great aha moment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg19XiAnAD8 (Modes of a major scale)

- in sum, there are many aspects of guitar playing that one should address, so the smart way to accomplish them would be to find simple solutions, not the complex ones ( yeah, I'm definitely lazy :-) )
#9
I'm kinda very lazy if i don't enjoy something, and not too bad if i do

that's a good point about the speed thing- as you said, a lot of the times things aren't as quick as you think, just good execution makes it sound faster than it really is.

checking out the video now
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#10
I do a ~45 minute warm up routine most days, and then 1-3 hours of music.