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#1
My son plays guitar, likes punk, green day and lots of distortion.

My daughter had taken up playing guitar and I play 'at' bass. I do not play a 6 string.

So with two players in the house we need a second amp. I got my son an inexpensive vipyr (15 or 20w) and he's outgrown it and has ideas of playing in a band. With his birthday coming up I'm thinking new amp.

My thinking is a head and cab - he can grow by changing either in the future as his (or sisters) talents/interests dictate. And I don't want to buy him another amp - so this has to be giggable with a drummer if need be.

SS for cost and reliability, verstility and features. I know it's not the ultimate in sound but my son cranks up the distortion so well, I don't hear much 'quality sound' anwyay (some of that is the vipyr I know - a 1x8 or whatever is in there just isn't gonna have tone).

My bass teacher uses a marshall MG100 and 1/2 stack on gigs (he plays guitar, KB and bass) and loves his marshall -but he's not playing what my son plays, is using a $1500 gibson and 35 years of experience to get his sound. Reviews of the MG series of amps on line are just terrible. However, I can pickup up a used one with a 4x12 cab for $350ish. And billie joe armstrong plays marshall so to my son that is 'the' brand to have. (he's turning 13)

I have a fender rumble and love it. The reviews of mustangs are all excellent. I can with trade ins get a new V (v1) and used 4x12 for $400, perhaps less.

the other option is a used crate shockwave 3500 which seems to get good reviews with a 'refurb'd vintage cabinet with new crate speakers' for $275. Price is tempting here, reviews good..but cab is an unknown and this one doesn't include any pedals -the others include the factory 4 button pedals.

A 4x12 is overkill but cheaper and more selection than a 2x12.
The fender V is a stereo amp. Not sure how that affects cabinet selection in the future or using that cab with another amp one day. Perhaps it's an advantage to have a stereo cab- play two amps/two guitars?

Thoughts?
Am I on the right track, making some major mistake due to lack of knowledge?

And yes, I know town is a personal thing but I can't play guitar to test it (notes, wipeout but no chords, songs, etc). My son only seems to care about distortion.
#2
TBH I don't see why he needs versatility for punk.
Also, get a used tube amp cos if your gonna be gigging, you'll appreciate having it.
Avoid the amps u stated.
I might recommend a vypyr tube but that may be overkill in terms of versatility. Look into a used marshall dsl401(not the 40c) as I think BJA used to use one.
BTW, good on you for doing this for your son! I'm sure he'll appreciate it
Quote by kangaxxter
Tone is in the fingers.

What you really need is a new amp.

(Anything I missed?)



Quote by Robbgnarly
I have been hearing about MG amps lately. I have heard good about them, but only a few times have they been talked about here.

#4
My guitar teacher has a MG30w thing, it sounds like crap. I've seen a few professional people with amps like that.

You'd think that teachers would actually want to make their lessons sound good.

The DSL401 combo would be great, you should be able to find one in your budget used. There's little need for an amp and cab and at your price range you won't get anything worth anything. The DSL is a real Marshall, somewhat of a classic and a great amp for the price.

Or you could look at older Fenders combos like the Super 60, or a Laney VC50 (another combo) - Which is a fantastic amp, it's basically the DSL401 with more power and more options, if you can get that seriously look at it. It's the one that got away for me, I should never have sold it. Make sure you buy a trolley too, as it weighs 40kg!

If they are slightly out of your budget spend a bit more and you'll get a lot more. Good on you for consulting people without agendas (like store clerks).

Hope this helps.
#5
another vote for the dsl401 combo
the mgs amps are honestly crap
especially on distortion and if your son is going to be using distortion alot hell get tired of it quite easily

and you do want a tube amp for him especially if hes gigging
if you can find a laneyvc50(which is a fantastic amp) itll be great for them tones


if you really need that much versatility the vypyr tube combo is very versatily and sounds pretty great
#6
Here's my reasons for SS - price, versatility- you can get many sounds out of it so if one day my son wants to do blues the next day metal back to punk and then go for a clean sound he can do that.
I got the vipyr for that reason - so he could explore and experiment.
My teacher, whose played 4500+ gigs, managed bands, etc says SS is lighter and more reliable. Tube amps, especially if moved roughly, go out. (hes currently using the marshall mg100dx)

And if you have a kt66 or 6L6 you get that sound. Want something else...buy it or spend on pedals. The marshall and the blackstar SS amps can model half a dozen different tubes.

Everyone says that yes, tube amps sound better but the audience can't tell teh difference so why spend the extra money and deal with the potential hassles, extra weight, etc?

Just asking - educate me please!

I see at guitar center they have a used vipyr 120w 2x12 tube amp for $450, marshal 401 for 400-450 so the price works.
#7
an MG sounds like ass, though, there's the problem.

maybe the audience can't tell (i'd dispute that, but it might be true), but I bet your son could.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#8
Quote by prof_fate
Here's my reasons for SS - price, versatility- you can get many sounds out of it so if one day my son wants to do blues the next day metal back to punk and then go for a clean sound he can do that.
I got the vipyr for that reason - so he could explore and experiment.
My teacher, whose played 4500+ gigs, managed bands, etc says SS is lighter and more reliable. Tube amps, especially if moved roughly, go out. (hes currently using the marshall mg100dx)

And if you have a kt66 or 6L6 you get that sound. Want something else...buy it or spend on pedals. The marshall and the blackstar SS amps can model half a dozen different tubes.

Everyone says that yes, tube amps sound better but the audience can't tell teh difference so why spend the extra money and deal with the potential hassles, extra weight, etc?

Just asking - educate me please!

I see at guitar center they have a used vipyr 120w 2x12 tube amp for $450, marshal 401 for 400-450 so the price works.


Well, I'd have to question the objectiveness of your teacher......if he really has played 4500 gigs (which if you do the math, is a show every 3rd day for 38 years straight or so) he would know better than to say that "the audience can't tell the difference" Sure, the average listener may not be able to tell you if the amp your son is playing is tubed with EL34's or KT88's or what the difference is between a bogner uberschall and a fender twin, but when it sounds good, it just sounds good. to everyone. It's something the listener "experiences" more than just hearing it. They wont be able to put their finger on why it sounds better, but it just does....pending the person playing it, knows what they're doing. And the same goes for amps that sound terrible (MG, Crate, Line 6). The crowd may not know why they dont like it, just that they dont. There's a reason pro's play gear that sounds good. If it didn't matter, why wouldn't the heavy hitters be playing cheap SS amps? And it sounds like your teacher might be a little bitter and jaded and set in his ways...I've met a bunch of those guys...they're all "one way" about everything and they think they have it all figured out. Maybe I have the wrong impression, but anyone who has played out that much, knows better. Or he's full of it.

Anyway, sorry....didnt mean to put your teacher on blast, but if he's the kind of guy i think he might be, they can sour a kid on an instrument with their "knowledge". Anyhow, if your son is thinking of joining a band and you want versatility, the right tube amp can be just as versatile as a solid state amp. Modeling amps on the whole, get close to different amp tones, without ever really doing it right. kind of like that "jack of all trades, master of none" saying. Tone differences between metal, punk, blues, etc....are more in the hands than anything else. Look at Gary Clark JR...dude plays some killer blues with essentially a doom metal guitar tone. Anywho, I guess a better starting point would be how much you are willing to spend on it, really. we already kinda know a bit about the styles of music he wants to play.

Ultimately, at this age, you want him to be inspired by the sound he hears when he plays. If it sounds like shit...(like an MG), the novelty of having a Marshall will fade once he tires of the sound those amps make. Everything is relative, if you haven't played a really nice tube amp, then you don't know what you're missing and an MG might sound good, but it's just a big paperweight with a marshall logo on it. Stay away from crate too....they hiss so bad on high gain...its not pleasant.

And reliability? I've only mostly had tube amps since ive been playing out, and I can honestly say I've never had an issue with mine. It's musical gear, so it should be treated as such. It shouldn't be thrown in the trunk carelessly or bounced off of every door jamb in and out of the venue. Tubes do go bad and there are some things you have to watch once you go to tubes, such as setting the head for the correct impedance, not playing the head when it's not running into a cab, etc. But tubes are replaceable and if done right and taken care of, will last years between changes. Price is another issue, tube heads obviously cost more. But you get what you pay for. So, i guess as i said before....lets start with a price range. That might help us better point you in the right direction.
_______________________________________________

'08 PRS singlecut
'11 Gibson Les paul studio
'83 Gibson es-335 dot
'11 Taylor 114 ce
Bogner Ubercshall
Hughes and Kettner Triamp cab
#9
Thanks for the response. It's interesting how opinions vary from pro to amateur/hobbyist and how it changes with age and experience.

Quote by arteestic1
Well, I'd have to question the objectiveness of your teacher......if he really has played 4500 gigs (which if you do the math, is a show every 3rd day for 38 years straight or so) he would know better than to say that "the audience can't tell the difference"


My teacher http://www.808musichaus.com/biography.html
I can't verify his gig count of course, but he's 56 and been playing since he was a teenager and has spent years on the road playing full time and managing bands (including Bx3 - billy sheehan, jeff berlin and stuart Hamm).
He knows a thing or two.

As a professional photographer myself I see a big difference in what hobbyists concentrate on vs what I do - yes, there is a minute difference between this and that but customers don't know, can't tell and don't care. Other things that many hobbyists ignore are much more critical to success as a professional.



Sure, the average listener may not be able to tell you if the amp your son is playing is tubed with EL34's or KT88's or what the difference is between a bogner uberschall and a fender twin, but when it sounds good, it just sounds good. to everyone. It's something the listener "experiences" more than just hearing it. They wont be able to put their finger on why it sounds better, but it just does....pending the person playing it, knows what they're doing. And the same goes for amps that sound terrible (MG, Crate, Line 6).

I agree - but again, DOES IT MATTER?
Depends on WHY you are doing what you are doing.
Will a '53 strat sound better than a copy made by austin for $110? I would sure hope so. But give both to a newbie and there won't be much difference to them. Put the $110 guitar in the hands of beck or clapton and htey'll outplay you ever day of the week.
Much of 'sound' comes from the player as much if not more than the instrument or speaker.

So then, what sounds 'good'? I'd bet clapton could make anything sound good I know I can't make much of anything sound good. I've tried LOL. Even my bass I like my sound some days, change nothing and then don't like it today so turn knobs. The amp is the same...I loved it in the store, I loved it last week my house.

Yes, better gear usually sounds better and makes it easier to sound good. But if we follow that then nothing under a $10k vintage amp is worth owning, right?

So that is 'good' sound? What I like and what you like will certainly differ. What you liked 10 years ago is quite likely different today - and what about in another 10 years?

A super great amp is more important when playing alone than when in as band - sorry, but with drummer, other guitars, etc there is just a lot more sound and the nuances of a better amp/cab won't come through.

The crowd may not know why they dont like it, just that they dont. There's a reason pro's play gear that sounds good. If it didn't matter, why wouldn't the heavy hitters be playing cheap SS amps? And it sounds like your teacher might be a little bitter and jaded and set in his ways...I've met a bunch of those guys...they're all "one way" about everything and they think they have it all figured out. Maybe I have the wrong impression, but anyone who has played out that much, knows better. Or he's full of it.

Could all be true - I'm sure there's some truth in there. As a long time photog I do certain things certain ways. Why? It works for me. I've tried many things and THIS is what works. Will that work for you? Hard to say, but what should I teach you? What I tried and didn't work? Ever have a teacher show you how to mispell words, not do math, play the wrong notes? Of course not.


Anyway, sorry....didnt mean to put your teacher on blast, but if he's the kind of guy i think he might be, they can sour a kid on an instrument with their "knowledge".


Again, hard to say. He plays a 70s vintage gibson flying V with $1.99 strings on it. the logic? He says yes, $10 strings are better, but not 5 times better. Changing strings more often is better than playing old strings longer. At $2 he'll change strings without thought...at $10 he'll try and use them longer.
Quirks of personality I guess. Or making a living as a musician when locally a bar gig is $300-400 - split that 4 ways and you can't afford $10 strings every gig.


Anyhow, if your son is thinking of joining a band and you want versatility, the right tube amp can be just as versatile as a solid state amp. Modeling amps on the whole, get close to different amp tones, without ever really doing it right. kind of like that "jack of all trades, master of none" saying. Tone differences between metal, punk, blues, etc....are more in the hands than anything else. Look at Gary Clark JR...dude plays some killer blues with essentially a doom metal guitar tone. Anywho, I guess a better starting point would be how much you are willing to spend on it, really. we already kinda know a bit about the styles of music he wants to play.


What he plays in a band vs what he WANTS to play may depend on how money motivated he is. If the market is for classic rock and he wants paid then that's what he's gonna have to play.
He's 13 - his tastes will change I suspect as he ages. I still prefer zep, cream, early sabbath, deep purple - blues based hard rock I'd call it. But I also like progressive rock, country (which now is more 80s rock). The deathmetal stuff is too hard for me to listen to for long.


Ultimately, at this age, you want him to be inspired by the sound he hears when he plays. If it sounds like shit...(like an MG), the novelty of having a Marshall will fade once he tires of the sound those amps make. Everything is relative, if you haven't played a really nice tube amp, then you don't know what you're missing and an MG might sound good, but it's just a big paperweight with a marshall logo on it. Stay away from crate too....they hiss so bad on high gain...its not pleasant.

We've played tube amps a bit at stores. I get the warm tone. His vipyr can't be played at low volumes and he never ever plays it clean where I don't think it sounds too bad.
From my understanding overdrive/distortion from a tube amp comes with volume - and having him crank it for practice isn't gonna happen (he's not alone in the house and i care about his hearing). So he may not be happy.
Reading about tube amps it seems tubes have a definite life expectancy - if played daily their tone starts to go in 6-8 months. At $200/set (depends of course) this becomes an economic issue.

Do tubes last longer than a few months? Depends on what you believe I guess. The tone degradation will be gradual, like strings. Put on new strings and wow, what a difference, huh?
If tubes do that and you got them for great tone then you do need to keep them fresh or you won't have that tone you wanted in the first place.

it's tough to foresee the future - will he form a band and play (likely - may be 3 years, how knows. There's group of kids a grade ahead of him that have done that. IMO the're not so hot but I've not heard them live)
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But to see in the halls, play in the orchestra, with 'kids like you' than play in festivals shows you that yes, you CAN do that.

So it's motivating him and his friends.
His best friend takes guitar lessons from rob james who also goes to our church http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Clarks which is also motivating him. His friend's uncle has a working band in the area too.

I also want to keep him motivated and supported.
At this point I think he'd be happier with a marshall half stack (sounds awesome!) over the best bugera tube amp (booger amp? - I can see his friends saying)
Why do most people want gibson and fenders? Are they 'the best'? or the best known and seen? And is a cheap copy the same thing? Apparently not if it's an MG

Anyway, it's a moot point - guitar center made me an offer i couldn't refuse - new fender mustang V head and matching half stack and cables, delivered to my door, for $430.
Is a half stack too much? for the den, hell yeah. But then in a year or two perhaps a tube amp will come along and we've got a good cab to plug into.
Is this a tube amp? No. Can it emulate one? No - it can emulate half a dozen.

And think back - if you got something like this for christmas/13th birthday what would you think? "oh man, no tubes - send it back"?
#10
Well, sounds like you have it all figured out. But, why you asked the people on this forum for advice and then proceeded to counterpoint any advice offered is beyond me. (see my profile picture) There are gaping holes in some of your logic but pointing that out is , well pointless, as you're not very receptive to outside points of view, apparently. Sure, you don't know me or anyone else here and we could all be dead wrong in your eyes, but you came here for a reason...because you wanted an opinion from more experienced people. Really, it sounds like you already knew what you were going to do before you posted the first letter, so have at it. Enjoy.
_______________________________________________

'08 PRS singlecut
'11 Gibson Les paul studio
'83 Gibson es-335 dot
'11 Taylor 114 ce
Bogner Ubercshall
Hughes and Kettner Triamp cab
#11
I asked which of these 3....which SS is best.
EVERY answer was 'get a tube amp'.

Not an answer at all really. Not to the question asked at least.

Good info, good discussion, just not pertinent to my needs at this time.
#12
I really don't see the point of posting a topic like this when you blatantly disregarded / ignored any good advice you were given.

Everyone here was just trying to save you some $$ in the long run, and get your kid the best possible setup that he could have, within your budget. It's not like any of us are trying to waste your money, or mislead you. The whole point of this community is to help each other out... if you don't want help, don't bother posting.

$100 says in less than a year, your kid will be sick of that amp, and you'll be lucky to sell it for $200 when he wants a tube amp. And no, you do not have a good cab for when he wants to upgrade the head.

You could of had a much better setup for that kinda money....
Guitars:
PRS Custom 24
Gibson Les Paul 60's Tribute
85' MIJ Strat
97' Snakepit Les Paul
LP Traditional 1960 Zebra
MIJ Tele
MIA Strat

Amps:
Silver Jubilee 2525
Peavey Ultra 112
Jet City JCA50H
66' Bassman
Pink Paisley Princeton RV
74' Vibro Champ
#13
Quote by prof_fate
I asked which of these 3....which SS is best.
EVERY answer was 'get a tube amp'.

Not an answer at all really. Not to the question asked at least.

Good info, good discussion, just not pertinent to my needs at this time.


That's because the amps mentioned are all a waste of money. That's why I asked what your price range would be, so we could go from there and maybe help you find something that would service all of your needs, and maybe even have some resale value at upgrade time, regardless of whether it was SS or tube. But instead of offering that info....you decided to explain why you think you're right about every piece of advice given to you. There are alot of very knowledgeable people on here...I myself have learned quite a bit, just by reading the old posts on this forum. So you'll have to excuse my barbaric nature when I feel like telling you to kindly go jam yourself.
_______________________________________________

'08 PRS singlecut
'11 Gibson Les paul studio
'83 Gibson es-335 dot
'11 Taylor 114 ce
Bogner Ubercshall
Hughes and Kettner Triamp cab
#14
Quote by arteestic1
So you'll have to excuse my barbaric nature when I feel like telling you to kindly go jam yourself.




I couldn't have said it better myself!
Guitars:
PRS Custom 24
Gibson Les Paul 60's Tribute
85' MIJ Strat
97' Snakepit Les Paul
LP Traditional 1960 Zebra
MIJ Tele
MIA Strat

Amps:
Silver Jubilee 2525
Peavey Ultra 112
Jet City JCA50H
66' Bassman
Pink Paisley Princeton RV
74' Vibro Champ
#15
Previous advices were good: tube amps are useful not only because of the warmer sound itself, but also because they make you "grow" faster as a musician. I am 100% sure that if your son practiced for 3 years, as you said, with a tube amp, he would be a far better player in the end: for example, his mistakes would come out more and he'd be cleaner as a result; he'd be able to manage the dynamics of his playing best; etc.

Now, if all he does is turn on the amp, put the gain to a maximum and play, i see your point into not wanting a tube amp, as it requires a minimum care for its usage and an interest for the instrument.
My suggestion can then be a very,very cheap SS amplifier with decent cleans fed by a distortion pedal.. a roland cube maybe? or a fender 212r.. it's pretty loud.

The best option would anyway be-- getting him a good teacher, a decent tube amp and the mindset to play properly, not just turning the gain to 10. He'll thank you in the long run
#16
Did ANYONE read my original post?
Or is 'the best amp' the one YOU own RIGHT NOW and therefore the one everyone should own too?

I didn't ask for the advice I was given..so I'm not the bad guy here for ignoring it. YOU folks all wandered off topic and didn't answer my question. Now I'm being called names?
#17
I'm going to follow the tube mob. I apologize for disregarding your request for SS, but I believe it's warranted.

GO TUBE!

As for your teacher.....everyone has an opinion, it doesn't make it fact (or a popular opinion held by other individuals in the field for an item that cannot be regarded as fact). Hell, plenty of educated and well regarded individuals in their fields have made some pretty stupid/poor comments.
Last edited by RockAddict311 at Nov 2, 2013,
#18
He plays an acoustic and elec, alternating week to week what he takes to lessons and practices on both.

With the elec hes, he's got distortion cranked and often volume cranked - but the vipyr just won't play low - the diff between 1 and 9 on the volume knob is loud and crappy loud.
It's not too bad clean - but he never every plays it clean.

And yes, I agree, with the distortion cranked up he can't hear mistakes so won't learn as quickly.

But, if he wants distortion and I 'take it away' with a new amp...then what? He loses interest?
or he has to crank the amp to get good distortion (as i've read you need to do with a tube amp) and sorry, but he's not 25 living alone, the music room isn't in the basement or garage and isolated from the rest of the family.

I'm going with the theory that more watts, bigger/more speakers NOT worked hard will sound better than small /few cranked up. More headroom for better sound.

I started with a 15 watt 8" bass 'practice amp'...it made sound and I supposed has a purpose. But sounding 'good' isn't it's thing. It certainly would work to learn to play but isn't exciting. I got a rumble 75, 1x15 and wow, what a huge difference. (and no tubes - I know ) Lower volumes sound better, crank it up and rattle the windows (fun at times).
is this as 'good' as a little mark tube 800 and full stack?

A friend has a behringer something - 2x12 SS 60w give or take. He's had it for years and loves it. According to him and his brother (and I've known them for 30+ years) behringer is one of the best amps out there. Really?

I didn't take his advice either (get a behringer) - too many bad reviews (quality)
I dind't get the marshall MG - WAY too many bad reviews (sound)
I didn't get the used crate (good online reviews)

I'm not sure I've seen a single bad review of a Mustang amp (1,2,3,4 or 5). Not one. Many if not most even rave about it's fender tube amp modeling.
Is a V overkell, would a 4 or even a 3 been sufficient? Perhaps. But the deal on teh 5 was good and now we have a cab if he should want a tube amp.

Which I admit is likley.

Quote by lxar
Previous advices were good: tube amps are useful not only because of the warmer sound itself, but also because they make you "grow" faster as a musician. I am 100% sure that if your son practiced for 3 years, as you said, with a tube amp, he would be a far better player in the end: for example, his mistakes would come out more and he'd be cleaner as a result; he'd be able to manage the dynamics of his playing best; etc.

Now, if all he does is turn on the amp, put the gain to a maximum and play, i see your point into not wanting a tube amp, as it requires a minimum care for its usage and an interest for the instrument.
My suggestion can then be a very,very cheap SS amplifier with decent cleans fed by a distortion pedal.. a roland cube maybe? or a fender 212r.. it's pretty loud.

The best option would anyway be-- getting him a good teacher, a decent tube amp and the mindset to play properly, not just turning the gain to 10. He'll thank you in the long run
#19
Quote by prof_fate

Thoughts?
Am I on the right track, making some major mistake due to lack of knowledge?


This is what everyone was getting at here. They were just trying to be helpful and point you in the right direction, by giving you some basic knowledge about guitar amps. You apparently just don't think any of us know what were talking about, which is why this whole thread is pointless if you just came here to ask for advice, that you admit you're lacking, then not listen to what more experienced players tell you.

And it has nothing to do with us trying to sell you the gear that we play, because we each think we're and expert, and have the best tone. 99% of the people on this forum just want to help each other. It's not our fault that we wern't telling you what you wanted to hear. Thats why we ask budget, preferred genres, experience level.. etc

Edit: you do not have to crank a tube amp to get it to sound good. I'm not saying that tube amps don't sound good when they're cranked (of course they do), but you don't HAVE to crank it to get a good tone. I rarely put my amps past talking volume when I'm practising at home (gotta keep the wife and neighbours happy). I'm still able to get a great tone at this volume. Sure when I play with my band, I crank my amps up quite a bit louder.... but you're playing in a band setting... sorry, but its going to be loud!
Guitars:
PRS Custom 24
Gibson Les Paul 60's Tribute
85' MIJ Strat
97' Snakepit Les Paul
LP Traditional 1960 Zebra
MIJ Tele
MIA Strat

Amps:
Silver Jubilee 2525
Peavey Ultra 112
Jet City JCA50H
66' Bassman
Pink Paisley Princeton RV
74' Vibro Champ
Last edited by red.guitar at Nov 2, 2013,
#20
Yes, but I KNOW him.
He's making his living playing and teaching music. And he's recomending what he uses - and knows works.
I know he has 30+ years experience - not just theory and dreams and fantasies.

Nothing against you or anyone here, but I don't know a thing about any of you.

I know many an amateur photog that HAS to have the latest greatest doohickey and camera the day they come out and I know many a pro, artist, world renowned photographers that pretty much only buy something when forced to do so. A 3 model old camera works just fine.

He's not concerned with what it is, what it can do, etc. Every trip into a store he plays and lusts after a different guitar. IF it's a gibson (or copy). Fenders? Who cares - unless it's a fender bass (not a squire bass mind you)

I see his biggest limitation now being the amp. is there a perfect choice? Who knows. So much depends on what you play, want to play, have played and then what you like sound wise, have the money for or want to cart around.

That we can't go play HIS guitar through ANY of the amps makes it that much harder. I've had him play through a blackstar SS and a tube back to back - and asked 'which do you like better' and got the response ' they sound ok' - no preference.

I see tube amps a cool but costly - up front and in maintence. And more limited than a modeling amp in what you can get out of them. I'm not sure but suspect if you want all the effects wtih a tube amp you buy pedals...so more cost.

I'm not shopping for the 'best' amp or the 'perfect' amp - as those definitions change over time. 7 years ago the 'perfect' car for us was a minivan. Now it's a pickup truck with 10k in towing capacity. When the kids are in college I want a mustang convertible -it's perfect THEN, not now.

and for now, for me/him, a tube amp isn't 'perfect'.

Quote by RockAddict311
I'm going to follow the tube mob. I apologize for disregarding your request for SS, but I believe it's warranted.

GO TUBE!

As for your teacher.....everyone has an opinion, it doesn't make it fact (or a popular opinion held by other individuals in the field for an item that cannot be regarded as fact). Hell, plenty of educated and well regarded individuals in their fields have made some pretty stupid/poor comments.
#21
I'd be the first to agree that what hobbyists think is important might not necessarily totally correlate with what pros think. that's a good point.

At the same time, I think you're taking extreme examples (no-one's saying he should get a pre-CBS strat, for example), when what's more important is "good enough".

The other thing is, your son's teacher has been playing for years and is probably pretty good by now. You can get away with less good kit the better you get. I wouldn't be too impressed if someone forced me to use a marshall MG these days, for example, but I wouldn't be as upset as I would have been when I was just starting out. You want to make it as easy as possible when you're starting out, make it as fun as possible etc. and give yourself no excuse to quit.

I'd also point out that the vast majority of pros use tube amps.

Now, obviously you know your son far better than we do, that goes without saying. If he is a bit off a butterfly like you're saying, then maybe what you're saying makes more sense. That's fair enough, it's your money and your call. We're just saying what we would do in the same situation. You have to decide if our advice tallies in enough with what you know your situation is.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Nov 2, 2013,
#22
ok we get it. you know best. you're super smart, almost clairvoyant, even...and your guitar teacher is a god among the swine. have a nice day.
_______________________________________________

'08 PRS singlecut
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#23
Outside of here EVERYONE says get solid state.
Now what do I do? Who's right? Friends, teachers, players I know, store clerks - or strangers on the internet?

And yes, from what I've read/been told to get good distortion from a tube amp you must crank it. And since this is one of the primary tone/sound/effect my son wants it is a major factor in choosing an amp. Is what I've read wrong, some with small print I've not seen? don't know.

I did research - ss vs tube. ANSWER: ss.
That question has been answered and there's no need to try and change my mind.

Which one? That is more the question I need answered. Did some research on that and came up with 2 top contenders (marshall and fender) and since the crate is available that too. Egnator was another brand that was highly recomended by several people. Some say blackstar but mostly those selling them.


Quote by red.guitar
This is what everyone was getting at here. They were just trying to be helpful and point you in the right direction, by giving you some basic knowledge about guitar amps. You apparently just don't think any of us know what were talking about, which is why this whole thread is pointless if you just came here to ask for advice, that you admit you're lacking, then not listen to what more experienced players tell you.

Edit: you do not have to crank a tube amp to get it to sound good. I'm not saying that tube amps don't sound good when they're cranked (of course they do), but you don't HAVE to crank it to get a good tone. I rarely put my amps past talking volume when I'm practising at home (gotta keep the wife and neighbours happy). I'm still able to get a great tone at this volume. Sure when I play with my band, I crank my amps up quite a bit louder.... but you're playing in a band setting... sorry, but its going to be loud!
#24
Quote by arteestic1
ok we get it. you know best. you're super smart, almost clairvoyant, even...and your guitar teacher is a god among the swine. have a nice day.


/ thread
Guitars:
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Gibson Les Paul 60's Tribute
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LP Traditional 1960 Zebra
MIJ Tele
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Amps:
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Peavey Ultra 112
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Pink Paisley Princeton RV
74' Vibro Champ
#25
There are also different levels of pros...those playing coffee houses or arenas, making $500 a year vs 50k. Those with roadies and sponsorship and those that have neither.

What will my son want to play in 3 years when he's 16? I have no idea either. Currently he's into punk. Not metal, hip hop, pop, country or folk.
So far other than testing his acoutstic's electronics he doesnt plug that in. It a very different sound -but has no interest in that.

While he's been taught some zep, floyed, ac/dc, van halen songs and I listen to most of that so he's familiar with it, he's not into emulating any of them (sound wise). I find this odd - and expect it will change.
If' fun to see a demo by a 'real' player - had that with the blackstar and it's tube emulations. He again had little interest - which again I suspect will change as he grows up and is expsoed to more things.

I certainly HOPE his interests grow more so that his influences grow more. He's being taught a few leads, we've been to the R&R hall of fame (and he asked 'the right questions' so he has interest) but has he grabbed the start and tried to wail? No. I find that odd too.

Yet he's on the axe 10-15 hours a week. So there is definite interest there.

I'm just thinking of keeping his options open. He's interested in attending the performing arts school next yeat and that will certainly force him to broaden his interests.

Quote by Dave_Mc


I'd also point out that the vast majority of pros use tube amps.

Now, obviously you know your son far better than we do, that goes without saying. If he is a bit off a butterfly like you're saying, then maybe what you're saying makes more sense. That's fair enough, it's your money and your call. We're just saying what we would do in the same situation. You have to decide if our advice tallies in enough with what you know your situation is.
#26
Quote by prof_fate
Outside of here EVERYONE says get solid state.
Now what do I do? Who's right? Friends, teachers, players I know, store clerks - or strangers on the internet?

And yes, from what I've read/been told to get good distortion from a tube amp you must crank it. And since this is one of the primary tone/sound/effect my son wants it is a major factor in choosing an amp. Is what I've read wrong, some with small print I've not seen? don't know.


Yeah it is wrong, frankly. If you're after more modern-type tones (and I'd say green day qualifies), you want preamp tube distortion. Which you can get at low volumes with a tube amp. At least, a high gain master volume-equipped tube amp which is suitable for those type of tones.

That "you need to crank a tube amp to get distortion" thing only really applies to more vintage tones with older amps which didn't have master volume controls. And even with those, you can use pedals to get distortion.

Now... turning up even master-volume-type tube amps normally makes them sound better. And if he has to play at whisper volumes then tube probably isn't the way to go. But if he can get up to shouting/loud TV levels, in my opinion anyway, tube amps start to sound pretty good.

But the same is true for SS and modelling amps, too (at least until you hit their clipping threshold). I have a little vox mini3 modelling amp for mucking around with when I'm learning tabs on the internet... about as quiet a solid state/modelling amp as you can get. And it sounds better turned up a bit.

That's the only problem with listening to old people, I guess (like the teacher). While they absolutely have more experience, they can also be out of touch and out of the loop regarding new ideas and inventions.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#27
First of all, i did read your posts and i suggested you 2 possible solid state models that can serve you better in this case with you spending even less money. The fender can also be bought used and sold pretty easily (at least here) for the same sum. Just add a distortion pedal and you're fine. Are you considering them?

Now, to the eternal dispute between good and evil.

Your teacher reminds me a lot my first one- when he plays live now he uses modelling technologies (like pod or gt, can't remember which one exactly). My point now is that he learnt how to play using the real thing (Tube Amps, and on that we can only agree), he learnt how to give his personal "touch" and interpretation to the playing, and now he can sound great even playing through an oven. Too bad he is a bad teacher.

Quote by prof_fate

And yes, I agree, with the distortion cranked up he can't hear mistakes so won't learn as quickly.


No, he should definitely study with the distortion on too, since he will learn to mute unwanted strings and to be much cleaner that way.
My point with the distortion is that when you push the gain too much, you lose definition and with bad amps you risk not being able to "stand out" in the band. Especially if the mids are at 0.
What everybody is trying to tell you here is that this is most likely going to lead you to a new amp in the next years. A good tube amplifier is an investment that easily pays off if the student does his job.

Quote by prof_fate

But, if he wants distortion and I 'take it away' with a new amp...then what? He loses interest?
or he has to crank the amp to get good distortion (as i've read you need to do with a tube amp) and sorry, but he's not 25 living alone, the music room isn't in the basement or garage and isolated from the rest of the family.


This is not true, a lot of tube amps are ok at low volumes.
#28
Quote by Dave_Mc

-CUT-


Dave made a great point! You have to crank up a bit 100W SS amps too.
#29
Something I'm not sure if it has been pointed out or not (a lot of the posts I skim read I'll be honest) is that if the MG breaks, it will likely just need to go in the bin or be too expensive to justify repairing. Tube amps tend to be of much simpler construction and are therefore easier to maintain.

Also, if your son's interest doesn't stick around and it comes time to sell the amp, the MG will be worth a tiny fraction of what you paid for it, a tube amp will hold value much better. This shouldn't hugely influence your choice but it's something to consider.

As has been said, a lot of tube amps are still great sounding at lower volumes and don't need to be up loud to distort. Dave's right as well, SS amps still sound better at higher volumes, in my experience.

You keep mentioning different playing styles, I'd say you're more likely to limit your son with an SS amp. An SS will have 2/3 sounds in it, which are just from the amp's different channels, a tube amp will have those 2/3 base sounds that can be altered with how the guitar is played, the guitar's volume knob, pedals used in conjunction with the amp (boosts for metal, volume pedals, fuzz pedals etc.)

Not saying you're wrong, just things to consider
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#30
^^

^ Yeah. Good point about being able to change tube amps' tones nicely with pedals.

Don't get me wrong- for this specific situation a modeller may well be the answer.

But I really wouldn't want an MG halfstack. What you're getting with an MG halfstack is basically an oversized, overpriced bedroom practice amp for the amount of money which would buy you a real amp. And which is no more versatile (arguably less so) than a tube amp (even the more basic master volume tube amps).

If you want to buy a little peavey vypyr or vox valvetronix for your son or something like that, then have at it. That'll be a lot cheaper and more versatile than a tube amp will (at least without spending tons of money). Won't sound just as good, but it should still sound pretty good. A cheaper, decent modeller is definitely an option which is worth considering. Absolutely, I agree 100%.

But with the MG halfstack you're getting something which costs as much as a tube amp, is less versatile than a tube amp, sounds FAR worse than a tube amp, and which is less reliable than a tube amp (search the internet for all the horror stories of them breaking if you don't believe me).

Yeah.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Nov 2, 2013,
#31
Quote by prof_fate
Yes, but I KNOW him.
He's making his living playing and teaching music. And he's recomending what he uses - and knows works.
I know he has 30+ years experience - not just theory and dreams and fantasies.

If a 100w MG works for him, great - But I run a recording studio and I would refuse to let a client use one on an album, unless they were paying me a ton

Quote by prof_fate
Outside of here EVERYONE says get solid state.
Now what do I do? Who's right? Friends, teachers, players I know, store clerks - or strangers on the internet?

I could see people recommending SS over Tube for valid points such as:


Doesn't have to be turned up as loud to sound good.

Doesn't have to have tubes changed (ie: less maintenance).

Can be plugged into a cab with a mismatched load and likely won't blow up.

Most have tons of sounds inside them that can technically make them less versatile.


As far as reliability goes - I suppose a SS amp is TECHNICALLY more reliable, since there's not a chance of it blowing tubes... but a well kept tube amp will likely last 10 times as long as a solid state amp will. If a SS amp develops a problem it's usually just junked, because it's built like a computer and parts aren't easily serviced.

As far as sound quality goes - There are only a select few solid state amps I'd say are on the same level as most entry-level, let alone high-end, tube amps. I'd certainly suggest a solid state amp to a beginner, but someone who's looking for a pro sound is likely NOT going to buy a solid state amp. Period. Why all these people you know, who are supposedly very experienced guitarists, are recommending solid state over to you for sound quality, I have utterly no idea, but aside from a very small amount cases, they are flat out wrong.

Honestly, if your teacher is suggesting you buy an MG over even the higher end Peavey Vypyr Tubes, maybe he's just gigged so much that his ears are completely ruined at this point. Even your son's 15w Vypyr kills the entire MG line in every conceivable way (except volume, obviously)
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#32
does he just have to have 1 amp ??...... amps are kinda like guitars , sometimes you need a LP and some humbuckers , sometimes you need a single coil strat ..... tubes will make him a better player because you hear your mistakes , where modeling makes a mediocre player sound great ...... he really probably needs both ..... I do have a little Vox AC4 TV tube amp that is adjustable from .25 watt , 1 watt and 4 watt , on .25 watt it gets distortion real easy at low volume , this is not a amp you would take gigging but would be a good cheap little amp for practice while not disturbing others , I got mine used for 140.00 to give you a idea of cost , it sure leaves room for a bigger modeling amp for gigs .... just a thought , good luck to you and your son
Last edited by Fumble fingers at Nov 2, 2013,
#33
Sounds like this teacher knows **** all.

Sorry.

You can buy much more for a little bit more money. Why bother asking and then ignoring.

You can either take this melons advice and get a shite amp, or listen to everyone in this thread and buy something with a bit of quality.

Do whatever you want.
#34
I've had the 'tone' or 'sound' discussion with several people. What makes YOU sound like YOU? Or BJA or Eddie V or Nugent or whatever sound like THEM, and not eachother?

Amp alone? Of course not. Guitar, pedals, strings, pickups all contribute - plus HOW those items are used.
And what SONG are we talking about? That varies tremendously too. And are we talking the album or live?
Jimmie Page had a dual neck guitar made to play live cause on a recording he had used an acoustic, 6 string and 12 string on the same song...

So you can only ever come close. So will a $400 tube amp make you sound like BJA? I doubt it - you've not got his guitars and that can make as big if not bigger difference.

As for 'whisper quiet' it need not be that, but 100db isn't gonna happen either. 90db is 20 rows back at a local outdoor concert and over 100 in the front row. For practice? Get real. 85db is more than enough, 90 or a bit more for fun now and then.

Overly loud and overdrive/distortion and tube or not you won't 'learn to play clean'.

Quote by Dave_Mc
Yeah it is wrong, frankly. If you're after more modern-type tones (and I'd say green day qualifies), you want preamp tube distortion. Which you can get at low volumes with a tube amp. At least, a high gain master volume-equipped tube amp which is suitable for those type of tones.

That "you need to crank a tube amp to get distortion" thing only really applies to more vintage tones with older amps which didn't have master volume controls. And even with those, you can use pedals to get distortion.

Now... turning up even master-volume-type tube amps normally makes them sound better. And if he has to play at whisper volumes then tube probably isn't the way to go. But if he can get up to shouting/loud TV levels, in my opinion anyway, tube amps start to sound pretty good.

But the same is true for SS and modelling amps, too (at least until you hit their clipping threshold). I have a little vox mini3 modelling amp for mucking around with when I'm learning tabs on the internet... about as quiet a solid state/modelling amp as you can get. And it sounds better turned up a bit.

That's the only problem with listening to old people, I guess (like the teacher). While they absolutely have more experience, they can also be out of touch and out of the loop regarding new ideas and inventions.


Gee, I hear that ALL the time from upstart photographer. They dont' feel they need to learn posing and lighting 'because then my pics will look like you old guys'....well, the human form hasn't changed in 10,000 years. Lighting that flatters that form is the same today as during the Renaissance when the painters of that day 'invented' or 'discovered' what we today call 'rembrandt lighting'. Perspective, key, composition has not changed either.

As for tubes, CRTs are WAY better for editing pictures and LCD screens but you won't find any around anymore. The light from an incandescent bulb is warmer (like a tube tone!) than any of the led/cf bulbs but alas, they too are about to go extinct.

Perhaps there is a new gen of players coming up that will prefer SS amps. DJ gear, home stereos all converted years ago if not decades ago.

And how many songs have been recorded 'direct' - no amp at all?
#35
Quote by lxar
First of all, i did read your posts and i suggested you 2 possible solid state models that can serve you better in this case with you spending even less money. The fender can also be bought used and sold pretty easily (at least here) for the same sum. Just add a distortion pedal and you're fine. Are you considering them?

I thought you were suggesting tube amps like everyone else.
OK, so I google Roland - the 80xl is discontinued and I didn't see one for sale. the replacement (80gx) isn't out yet so can't buy that either. Price is withing $12 of what i spent so that's good, and reviews I saw were all good.
Now I've heard/seen fender mustangs...never a roland. Like egnator not a name I 'identify' with nor does my son. (aka 'a hard sell' to him)

The 212r is (was) an option. More the size I had in mind. Many reviews rec a pedal over using the build in drive/distortion. Not a deal killer but takes the price up to the same as what I got.
And no modeling...

Now is that last bit a big deal or not? If you like the clean tone of this amp then of course you don't care...but clean tone is not what i'm shopping for, is it?
It lacks versatility in that regard - you get the one tone/sound and that's about it.

So it's what, a SS amp w/o modeling...if the mustang V is run clean what is the real difference (in sound/tone)?

Now, to the eternal dispute between good and evil.

Your teacher reminds me a lot my first one- when he plays live now he uses modelling technologies (like pod or gt, can't remember which one exactly). My point now is that he learnt how to play using the real thing (Tube Amps, and on that we can only agree), he learnt how to give his personal "touch" and interpretation to the playing, and now he can sound great even playing through an oven. Too bad he is a bad teacher.


I can agree on the first bit, can't on the last. You've never met him so you have no idea if he's a good teacher or not.
And he's MY bass teacher. My son's guitar teacher is a music teacher - got a college degree in music to prove it.

Now what a teacher teaches a 51 year old student vs a 12 year old is likely to be different. My teacher is teaching music theory, notes, fret board, 'feel' for music and how to read music.
My son's teacher is teaching 'play a chord like this' and then they play 'songs' - ok, recognizable riffs from rock songs. via tabs.
Read music? Theory? Suggest we get ANYTHING supplemental (chord books or dvd or suggestions for practice? nope).
There's a reason I"m not taking bass lessons from him.

Is he a good teacher? My kids are learning, playing, progressing, having fun and wanting to practice. So i'm not rocking the boat.

I doubt the teacher has ever played a gig in a bar in his life. Good or bad or does it matter? Depends..


No, he should definitely study with the distortion on too, since he will learn to mute unwanted strings and to be much cleaner that way.
My point with the distortion is that when you push the gain too much, you lose definition and with bad amps you risk not being able to "stand out" in the band. Especially if the mids are at 0.
What everybody is trying to tell you here is that this is most likely going to lead you to a new amp in the next years. A good tube amplifier is an investment that easily pays off if the student does his job.



it's possible - no, probable - that another amp purchase is in my future. I'm guessing I'll be supporting his music interests for the most part, for 4 or 5 years easy. And if his sister stays with it another couple of years more.

to be honest I'm surprised we don't have a second elec guitar by now for him to play.
The problem there is I got him a good one to start with so now cheaper instruments don't measure up. Learned something there, huh? Learned that good is better to start with (which was the plan) -easier to play, sounds better, lasts longer, etc. However, lesson 2 is subsequent instruments have to be of similar or better quality...aka, not cheap.

So maybe a decent tube amp will be good...or expensive later on.

And the killer is replacing tubes. Do they NEED replaced every 6-8 months? Probably not. But sorry, I"m not funding that.

http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/change-out-guitar-amp-tubes-not/ has no timeframe but talks about them weakening. Other responses ranged from every 6 months to no more than about 2 years - "if they don't blow first".
And many posts talk about how much better their amp sounded with new tubes after a year or 2 of use.
http://www.soldano.com/amp-help/guitar-amplifier-tube-maintenance/ more 'six months to a year' but can blow at any time.

So...I can spend what, $400+ on a tube amp and expect $200 more per year for tubes...sorry, but it's not gonna happen. Unless your supplying the tubes.

As I told my son with his new (ok, used) acoustic - this is a good one. You compared it to $2500 taylors and martins. (it was a $180 used washburn with fishman elec in it). Are you satisfied with this one? Because the next one you buy.

I sorta feel that way about this amp - I know he's gonna 'want' something else one day. And he can sell this to pay for it if he so desires.
#36
Tube amps are much more versatile than SS, as they don't sound like crap. Having loads of effects means **** all if they just don't sound good.

. Plus, this myth that they only sound good cranked just isn't true.

You need to spend a lot to get a SS that sounds better than a much cheaper tube.

Just go and listen for yourself. It's pretty hard to prefer a MG over a VC50.
#37
You need a Marshall MG100.
Quote by kangaxxter
Tone is in the fingers.

What you really need is a new amp.

(Anything I missed?)



Quote by Robbgnarly
I have been hearing about MG amps lately. I have heard good about them, but only a few times have they been talked about here.

#38
wow:


honestly man, just go to a store and have him try a bunch of stuff out. buy what he likes (and what you can afford). who cares what the crowd thinks.

honestly i think a modeling amp will do what you need it to do for where he is at.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#39
been to stores to play and it sorta sucks.
Never does a store have what I want.
They'll have a mustang, not the one I want to hear. They'll have every blackstar tube amp and another store has every blackstar ss amp. No way to compare one to the other side by side.

I looked for months for a bass amp for that reason. What I liked was out of my budget and what I could afford I didn't like.
then one day a GC i went into had 2 rumbles, the 75 and 150. I liked the 150 better but not for sound, for features I might never use and it was 50% or more pricier.

Should probably have tried out more but as I said, it's more me pushing for an amp than him. I"m tired of him and his sister fighting over the amp and I want to hear better tones (LOL). And having him try amps in the stores (since i can't play well enough on a 6 string) is like asking your dog which tree he likes to pee on.
#40
The thing is, a good quality amp will do all genres. For example a JCM2000 DSL has four different sounds (clean, crunch, OD1 and OD2). Clean does clean tones (obviously), crunch does blues, classic rock kind of sounds, OD1 does rock/hard rock and OD2 does metal and other high gain genres. There are enough sounds and even if your son's taste changes, he doesn't need to change the amp because it can do all those sounds and it's a good quality amp.

I think you are also confusing a modeling amp and a solid state amp. The basic solid state amps are not modeling. Modeling amps are digital and they can be solid state or hybrid (I don't think they can be all tube). So basic solid state is no more versatile than tube, actually I would say it's less versatile because IMO a good drive sound fits all genres (I only use one sound on my Laney VC30 but can play pretty much everything with it - OK, not high gain metal because it's a low gain amp).

Also my Laney VC30 is over ten years old and I'm not sure if the tubes have ever been changed (though it has only been played at bedroom levels/a bit louder) - I only had to change one pre amp tube when I bought it because it had gone microphonic. Tubes last longer than people say. You only need to change tubes more often if you play your amp cranked all the time.

Oh, and tube amps sound just fine at bedroom volumes (of course not at whisper volumes but IMO no amp sounds good at whisper volumes). I would suggest to try some amps at bedroom volumes and see how they sound like. IMO my Laney VC30 sounds a lot better at bedroom levels than any solid state/modeling amp I have tried.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Nov 3, 2013,
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