#1
when i listen to tool, one of my favorite things about the drum tracks are how powerful and beefy his toms sound, especially the low/floor toms. they have a very beefy *thud* sound to them, and not much resonance. i HATE a bunch of resonance in a tom

ive done my toying around with my toms, and the only time i got really close was putting my resonant heads to a relatively low tension, and the batter heads to barely finger tight

theres a few problems though

the heads are loose, so theres no rebound. also, theyre significantly quieter

how can i get a tom tone like the ones on danny's kit, with a big powerful thud, and as little resonance as possible???

is it just like a post-EQ studio thing? or do i really just have to keep my batter heads as loose as catholic school girl?
#3
I assume to get that 'thud' you talk about the heads will be covered in things to muffle them (e.g. tape, moongel). I guess it's also likely that he'll be using large-size toms to be able to tune so low (likely a 16" floor, possibly an 18").

Bear in mind though that there is likely some resonance there, it just can't be heard that well in the mix due to all the other instruments. Drums have quite a peaky sound, and so often the sound after the initial attack is too quiet to be heard when playing with a band, however with drums on their own they can be heard loud and clear.
#4
I think a lot of Danny's tone has to do with the size of the tom toms he uses. His rack toms are 8x8 and 10x10. The floor toms are actually, i think, two inches deeper than they are across... 16x14 and 18x16 respectively. His tuning is actually high.... very high. He usually tunes the kit to a D Minor triad D, F, A, and D with the resonant heads being a third higher on the rack toms and a fifth higher on the floor toms. As far as his head selection goes.... Evans EC-2s on the batter side and G1s on the resonant side. This information is from the July 2006 edition of modern drummer, but it's probably still the same.... his setup and sound have changed very little over the years.
#5
I guess that could be the case, apparently Bonham didn't tune that low either, it was just the way he played the drums that gave such a low sound.

As for those sizes, it could mean anything since, depending on the manufacturer, they list the sizes in different orders (i.e. rather than diameter x depth they use depth x diameter) in catalogues (the main culprit I find here is DW, or indeed it could just be an american thing in general). So watch out for that pitfall haha
#6
Quote by Second Rate
I think a lot of Danny's tone has to do with the size of the tom toms he uses. His rack toms are 8x8 and 10x10. The floor toms are actually, i think, two inches deeper than they are across... 16x14 and 18x16 respectively. His tuning is actually high.... very high. He usually tunes the kit to a D Minor triad D, F, A, and D with the resonant heads being a third higher on the rack toms and a fifth higher on the floor toms. As far as his head selection goes.... Evans EC-2s on the batter side and G1s on the resonant side. This information is from the July 2006 edition of modern drummer, but it's probably still the same.... his setup and sound have changed very little over the years.

are you sure about that? because im pretty sure that tuning the toms really high would give them a very tight, resonant sound. or would that just be the resonant heads?

thats kinda what im wondering. how do i know whether to adjust the batter head or the resonant head? im not too inclined with tuning toms
#8
Hmm not really my style, they just sound like all attack and no real resonance to me. If you're looking to remove a lot of the resonance, I guess moongel and thicker heads with muffling devices (e.g. Remo Pinstripes, Evans EC2), will help to remove the resonance.

Another way to remove resonance more 'naturally' (IMO at least) is to have the heads at different pitches. The drum will be at its most resonant with both at the same pitch, and the further they are apart the less resonance you will get (not sure on the science, but it works).

In terms of tuning, the batter head should control the pitch of the initial hit and the attack, whereas the resonant head should give the overall pitch (including that at which the head rings at). The best thing to do is probably to tune the resonant heads on all your toms first (preferably with the batter heads removed) until you're happy with the pitch and interval between them, and then experiment with the tuning of the batter heads until you find something that sounds good to you. As long as each head is in tune with itself, experimenting shouldn't be that time consuming as you just have to move all the batter head lugs by a similar amount (e.g. 1/4 turn).

Hope these ramblings are some use haha
#9
Quote by Lordyboy
Hmm not really my style, they just sound like all attack and no real resonance to me. If you're looking to remove a lot of the resonance, I guess moongel and thicker heads with muffling devices (e.g. Remo Pinstripes, Evans EC2), will help to remove the resonance.

Another way to remove resonance more 'naturally' (IMO at least) is to have the heads at different pitches. The drum will be at its most resonant with both at the same pitch, and the further they are apart the less resonance you will get (not sure on the science, but it works).

In terms of tuning, the batter head should control the pitch of the initial hit and the attack, whereas the resonant head should give the overall pitch (including that at which the head rings at). The best thing to do is probably to tune the resonant heads on all your toms first (preferably with the batter heads removed) until you're happy with the pitch and interval between them, and then experiment with the tuning of the batter heads until you find something that sounds good to you. As long as each head is in tune with itself, experimenting shouldn't be that time consuming as you just have to move all the batter head lugs by a similar amount (e.g. 1/4 turn).

Hope these ramblings are some use haha

your ramblings certainly were of "some use" lol probably the most helpful comment so far. and yes, id rather remove it naturally. i dont like overly choked toms. cuts away from the power, which is what i want

but yes, that is the tone i was going for, and thats also why i said i personally liked the way they sound (since most drummers, especially outside the metal genre, like some resonance)

my biggest concern is what exactly to do about the resonant heads. i understand they shouldnt be too similar; its common drummer knowledge that itll make other toms resonate too. but since im looking to virtually eliminate the resonance, im not sure what to do about the pitch. should the heads be relatively loose or tight?

also, i dont remember the whole comparison of "batter head tension to resonant head tension". i know youll get different sounds if one is tighter than the other

BASICALLY im clueless on head tension for either side. if you can help me more about how to get that sound, pretend i dont know the first thing about tuning toms lol

Edit: ignore the "too similar" part. i misread your comment and thought you mean they shouldnt be too similar to other toms. but still, which gives less resonance? higher batter, lower resonant, or vice versa?
Last edited by pAWNlol at Nov 4, 2013,
#10
The best way to eliminate resonance without resorting to muffling is to tune the top and bottom head to different pitches (probably at most an octave apart), as this creates a phase difference between the sound waves but out by both heads, effectively causing them to mute each other. (Yes I looked up the science!) It shouldn't make a difference to the resonance which head is pitched higher or lower, but it will affect the overall sound.

For the sound you're looking for, you'd probably want the resonant head to be the lower of the two, and then control the pitch of the initial hit by messing with the batter to get the sound you want


If you have the time, I'd take a good look at this: https://www.resotune.com/Drum%20tuning%20bible.pdf

It is literally a bible when it comes to the length of it, however its all good stuff and has helped me out quite a lot. (If anything in the guide if different to what I've said, trust the guide as I was likely just mis-quoting what I read in that).

The pocket guide has some good quick tips for achieving certain sounds (e.g. how to get the deep, fat tone you're looking for), and the 'concepts' section goes into some more detail. It's also generally very handy as a tech-ing guide, as it also goes into detail about mics etc.
#11
dude, lordyboy, i cant thank you enough man! this this is INCREDIBLY helpful. if you need a favor returned man, dont hesitate to let me know. PM if you even want to