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#1
Hi again everyone,

I seem to have acquired a bass guitar (it was a deal (or so I tell myself) I couldn't pass on a Vigier), and I really need a bass amp to put it through.

I really have no clue about bass gear- I've played electric guitar for years, but know nothing about bass.

It's a pretty good bass guitar so I'd want something which will at least do it justice- assuming that's possible without totally breaking the bank. I'd have a budget of ~£500 ($800; 600 Euros), but that's flexible by a couple of hundred pounds if something is a bit over budget which is far better.

I also wouldn't be averse to going a fair bit cheaper than that, assuming something at that price would do the job and wouldn't need to be upgraded inside a couple of months.

What I really don't want to end up doing (and I know from experience with guitar amps is definitely possible at this kind of budget) is buying something which is basically a glorified practice amp for an amount of money which would buy you genuinely pro level kit if you had made a more informed decision.

Versatility would be handy as I'm not really sure what type of bass tones I like best. As far as guitar goes, I play a range of stuff from vintage to modern tones, so I'm guessing I'd play a similar range of stuff on bass.

I'm in Europe, in Northern Ireland- so I can buy from the UK, or Ireland, or from e.g. Thomann in Germany. I'd prefer to buy new- the used market's not great in NI anyway, and considering I'm a new player I wouldn't really know what to look for in used gear anyway.

There seem to be some good prices here at the moment on Genz Benz stuff (and I know their guitar stuff is quite good, but obviously that doesn't mean their bass stuff is, though I think they were a bass company first) which I'm liking the look of- the Streamliner and Shuttle 2 series along with the Focus LT cabs would be *just about* doable if they're worth the extra- and I've also come across the Hartke Hydrive combos. I suspect they're total overkill (and more compact is probably better, unfortunately ), but hey, it's never stopped me before

But as I said, I know nothing about this and you bass players will know way better than me what I need and what's good quality and good value kit. So, basically, any recommendations, thoughts or ideas will be gratefully received. Thanks in advance for your help.

TL;DNR Summary:

Bass amp
Budget: ~£500 ($800; 600 Euros) (but flexible by ~£200 if it's worth the extra)
Versatility would be useful.
Compact is a bonus if it doesn't adversely affect the tone too much.
If I'm spending close to the top of the budget I'd want it to be pro level (or near enough) kit; if that's not possible, I'd rather spend (a good bit) less.
Available in Europe

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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#2
Personally I'd look at the micro heads and maybe a 115 cab if space is a premium.
"I didn't mean to kill nobody ... I just meant to shoot the sonofabitch in the head. Him dying was between him and the Lord." RL Burnside.

"I won't waste my love on a nation" BRMC
#3
Or you could get a computer interface and software package if you won't be gigging as a bassist.
"I didn't mean to kill nobody ... I just meant to shoot the sonofabitch in the head. Him dying was between him and the Lord." RL Burnside.

"I won't waste my love on a nation" BRMC
#4
The Genz Benz gear is among the best. Some seriously top quality stuff, and comes with the added advantage that the majority of it has neodymium speakers and class-D power amps (small, light, and loud). It's also a great time to be buying Genz Benz stuff if you're set on buying new because those bastards at Fender just closed down the company after buying it so most shops are clearing their stock. Bass Direct currently have the Contour combos at a ridiculous price (£320 for the 210, 300 watt combo). Wouldn't take up too much space, will be plenty loud (with the capacity for an extension cab should you actually need it) and has a nice neutral tone that you can shape for whatever sort of sounds you find yourself liking rather than being an overly coloured amp. You'd have enough budget left over to look at an extension cab if you needed (I really doubt you would) or even something like a Sansamp pedal to open up more tonal possibilities.
Spare a Cow
Eat a Vegan
#6
Quote by Ippon
^ Love the Genz Benz amps; however, Markbass might be cheaper in Dave's neck of the woods. Look for used LMs, so light with so much power, and pair with a 115 or 410.



Welcome to the low end, my friend.

By LM he means Markbass Little Mark (let's not use short names, after all he won't understand if we do)

Genz Benz stuff is nice indeed. You could also look at gallien krueger mb series (mb200 is a really small head - the size of an opened hand- that really delivers). then, try to get a small cab, like a 2X10, 1X15, or the one i like the most, 2X12 . You may find some discontinued MBE212 by gallien krueger which is quite small and lightweight, and handles 600 watts.

Still, look at the cheap gigging rigs thread, stickied in this forum. And search for Markbass and genz benz, which tned to make great and small stuff.
Quote by FatalGear41
When you break a bass string, that snapping sound is the sound of six dollars going down the crapper.



Sterling Ray 35
Hartke Ha3500 head - Gallien Krueger 212MBE cab
Tech 21 VT Bass
Zoom b2
#7
TC Electronic BH250 and one of it's matching cabs (RS/BC series) are a great starting point. Although I would not look into getting the BC series cabs for their looser low end response.
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#8
If you can score an Eden for that price you'll be in love for the rest of your life.
My Rig:
Yamaha RBX 375 bass
Peavey Millenium BXP bass (won at Summer Slaughter 2010, signed by all the bands)
Eden Nemesis NC410 320w combo amp
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#9
Quote by Sudaka
Welcome to the low end, my friend.

By LM he means Markbass Little Mark (let's not use short names, after all he won't understand if we do)

Genz Benz stuff is nice indeed. You could also look at gallien krueger mb series (mb200 is a really small head - the size of an opened hand- that really delivers). then, try to get a small cab, like a 2X10, 1X15, or the one i like the most, 2X12 . You may find some discontinued MBE212 by gallien krueger which is quite small and lightweight, and handles 600 watts.

Still, look at the cheap gigging rigs thread, stickied in this forum. And search for Markbass and genz benz, which tned to make great and small stuff.

The thread of cheapish gigging rigs!

#10
Thanks for all the help, guys

I posted pretty much this same thread on another forum and they spotted good deals on a couple of MarkBass combos- the DMC102P for £599 and the CMD151P for £499. So I'm guessing they'd be worth considering, too?

Also I forgot to mention in my original post, I can get the Genz Benz combos for ~£300 too, so I'm guessing they're also worth a look?

I'll check out the other things mentioned too- though as I said, the deals are pretty good on the Genz Benz and MarkBass stuff, so I'm guessing they're the best value to quality ratio? I already checked the "cheap gigging thread" and pretty much came to that conclusion already (which may well be wrong).

EDIT: Ok so I've been looking through the things suggested:

RubberSoul54321: Yup, the micro heads are definitely an option. I don't think the computer route is really an option, I've never got as far as trying computer-based stuff for guitar, let alone bass I think I'd prefer a "proper" amp (but that could just be my prejudice coming into it).

Ziphoblat: Yup I had already spotted the combos but forgot to include it in my thread. As you said, both GAK and bassdirect have pretty good deals on most of their stuff. The cheapest GB cabs have ceramic speakers, I think. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure their dearer cabs are even better (and are still a good deal), but even the cheaper cabs are pushing it pricewise for me- are they "good enough"?

Ippon: Yup I've spotted a couple of good deals on MarkBass stuff- as I said above, the CMD 102P and CMD Mini 151P. But the Genz Benzes are at blow-out prices here, too, so they're good value too. The usual "USA brands are dearer in Europe" thing doesn't apply in this case, I don't think.

Sudaka: yeah I'm not too well up on the abbreviations, I can just about cope with the full names

yeah I've come across the little mark already, but once I factored in a separate cabinet, I think those combos I found are just as cheap (and presumably a higher-end model; they have more wattage anyway...)?

The gallien kruger head is a good bit cheaper than the genz benz heads, but that cab you mentioned is pretty expensive. Again, for all I'd be saving, I'd probably rather go for something that's really good like the Genz Benz or MarkBass stuff which is on offer.

Does that make sense? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

dark Mass: Thanks. Like the GK, the head is a good bit less than the GBs. The cabs seem to be reasonable value, too. Though I don't think they'd end up much cheaper than the MarkBass combos I posted. I'm guessing MarkBass would be better?

TheTortured: any ideas on models to look at? What little I saw seemed to have a range of prices, but I'm guessing the cheaper stuff is the beginner-level stuff?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Nov 7, 2013,
#11
Genz benz or markbass are really good. Either of them will be more than fine. I'd get the cheaper one that has at least 200 watts and the larger one i could fit in my room, and that woulb be all. Ig Genz Benz is cheaper for you, i'd go there.
Quote by FatalGear41
When you break a bass string, that snapping sound is the sound of six dollars going down the crapper.



Sterling Ray 35
Hartke Ha3500 head - Gallien Krueger 212MBE cab
Tech 21 VT Bass
Zoom b2
#12
Thanks. Yeah I think I'm leaning towards the MarkBass or the Genz Benz as both are such good deals.

The MarkBass is slightly cheaper, but there's not much in it. Also the website which is selling the Markbass seems to be saying postage is £70 (!)- I suspect that's a mistake, as I got the vigier with free postage (and also they seemed to be saying postage to NI for pedals was also £70, which is crazy and makes me think there are gremlins in their website), but I can't discount the possibility that they might charge that much for postage. It'd still be a good deal, but it would sour the deal somewhat (and would bring it up to bang-on the same price as the Genz Benz).

As you implied, I suspect either the Genz Benz or MarkBass would be great. On the one hand that's good because it means I can't really go wrong... on the other it doesn't exactly help me make up my mind. Been listening to youtube vids too and I like them both (obviously youtube vids tell you very little, but it's all I've got ).

Thanks again for all your help.

If anyone has anything else to add, please feel free- I won't be doing anything tonight as it's late now
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#13
The Contour series are indeed the "budget" (if you can call it that) line, and use ceramic speakers. However, they're still easily up to the job. Top sound quality, I think you're just paying less because they weigh more. Everything I've read about them has been positive (loud, no issues with reliability, etc). As to how it compares to MarkBass gear, I won't comment, having not used much of it.
Spare a Cow
Eat a Vegan
#14
Quote by Ziphoblat
As to how it compares to MarkBass gear, I won't comment, having not used much of it.

IME Markbass are usually more transparent, both brands are top quality though, I have yet to find any bit of gear from either that wasn't up to snuff. I've also met a lot of people who if they play/like one of those brands, they tend to like the other as well.

Dave, either Markbass combo is a solid choice. Personally I'd recommend the 102P, but again, either is solid. The 151 is a little more managable size-wise if you're planning on using it as a studio/under-the-desk type thing.

As for Eden, their Nemesis line (now discontinued) was their "budget" level stuff, but its really quite good. The WTX500 and WT550 would be things to look at right now. There's also the E300 but I can't comment on that since I don't have any experience with it. The EC210 combo won't give you much less headroom than the other amps that have been brought up so far.

I don't know about prices on this on your side of the pond, but you could also take a look at the Aguilar Tonehammer 350 and 500. You'd need a cab but those are brilliant little heads.
Composite Aficionado


Spector and Markbass
#15
^ I'd be interested to see which was more transparent out of the Shuttle and the Markbass. My Shuttle is extremely transparent, especially if you don't push the pre-amp valve very hard. The Streamliner is obviously far more coloured. As I understand, the Contour amps are more in the Shuttle territory.

As for the Tonehammer, for the price of them (here at least) I've never seen sense in buying the heads. You can get the same pre-amp in a pedal format and a much more powerful standalone power amp for less money, usually.
Spare a Cow
Eat a Vegan
#16
Quote by Ziphoblat

As for the Tonehammer, for the price of them (here at least) I've never seen sense in buying the heads. You can get the same pre-amp in a pedal format and a much more powerful standalone power amp for less money, usually.

+1

You get the same tone from the heads that you can get with the pedal for 3x the price.


EDIT:If he could wait another 13 months since Aggie said that they would revoice the 2014-2015 models of the Tonehammer.
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Last edited by dark Mass at Nov 8, 2013,
#17
Quote by Ziphoblat
^ I'd be interested to see which was more transparent out of the Shuttle and the Markbass. My Shuttle is extremely transparent, especially if you don't push the pre-amp valve very hard. The Streamliner is obviously far more coloured. As I understand, the Contour amps are more in the Shuttle territory.

I always felt the straight SS Marks were slightly more transparent, but the Shuttle covered more ground, particularly with that preamp tube. And of course there's the ShuttleMAX for all the options. I'd be curious how a Little Mark Tube compares side by side with a Shuttle 6.0

Quote by dark Mass
EDIT:If he could wait another 13 months since Aggie said that they would revoice the 2014-2015 models of the Tonehammer.

Thaaats a good point. Any idea what they're planning on changing?


Just another one I just remembered: there's the EBS Reidmar. Although like the TC BH250 it's a little lower on power.
Composite Aficionado


Spector and Markbass
#18
Thanks guys

I'll ask a couple of more general questions I've thought of, if that's ok, and then go through your posts.

I was wondering about the speakers/cab thing. I'm not sure how many of you play guitar, too, but if you do, you probably know that there are about 3 or 4 models of guitar speakers which are used in just about every guitar speaker cabinet ever Obviously this makes mixing and matching heads and cabinets from different manufacturers a bit easier (cab design and construction still affect the sound, of course, but I'd say the speaker is arguably the main component in the overall tone).

This doesn't seem to happen with bass, most manufacturers seem to use their own speakers. I have no problem with that, if that's how it's done, it probably works.

My only concern is, if I were to go with the Genz Benz (head and cab setup), as you're well aware, GB is basically no more. So, if I were to buy a GB head with one cab, would I be in trouble if I wanted to add a second cab later? I.e. I'd presumably struggle to find a matching GB cab, would another manufacturer's cab sound weird together with it?

Also, are even the cheaper GB Focus series cabs "good"? They seem to be still made of plywood, which is normally a good sign (for guitar, anyway), but are ceramic speakers a problem? Or is it just the weight thing? I know for guitar, ceramic is normally preferred, but obviously this isn't guitar

Going through your posts:

Ziphoblat: Thanks. Yeah I figured they were the "budget" line, but as you said, they still look pretty good, there's "budget" and "budget", as you suggested. But if they're pretty hefty etc., that might be a concern. If I were going the combo route, the Markbass combos are certainly very light indeed.

Also thanks for the heads-up on the Contour's being more transparent (and the warning about the Aguilar prices here).

Tostitos: Excellent, thanks That's good to know about people often liking both. I've listened to a bunch of soundclips (not ideal, but all I have) and I like both, too. I think I did prefer the tone of the 210 version of the Markbass to the 115 version, but obviously that could just be how the person had it dialled in.

I'll check out the Edens and Aguilars (and the EBS in your later post) you mentioned.

Would you say the shuttle covers more ground than the streamliner? The slight spanner in the works is that, while the prices seem to be almost identical on same-wattage models, since they're on blowout, only some models are left. Only the dearer shuttles are available (plus the footswitch is extra) which would bump the price up a fair bit compared to the streamliner.

dark Mass: Thanks, but I can't see me waiting a year. I don't have any bass amp at all currently. I'm fairly patient/good at procrastinating (delete as applicable ) but even I have limits...

EDIT:

Ok so I've checked the prices here of the other stuff which was suggested (thanks again for all your help)

The WTX500 and WT550 seem to be well over budget- they're £600- £700 for the heads alone and the GB heads are starting at around £400 for the head alone. I can get those markbass combos for less than the price of those eden heads alone.

The other Eden stuff you listed seems to be a fair bit cheaper, but from the looks of it (I could be wrong) they seem to be more entry-level stuff. Not really a problem, but they're still well over £400- I'd rather pay £600-£700 for something great (or even good) than pay £400 (or more) for something mediocre. Unless they aren't mediocre and are great, of course

The Aguilar Tonehammer stuff seemed to be no cheaper than the Genz Benz stuff, in fact even a bit dearer. And dearer than the MarkBass stuff. Plus Ziphoblat and dark Mass suggested they weren't the best value.

The LittleMark Tube seems to be ~£600. That's a bit much, I suspect (it'd be just about doable if it's the best thing ever, but aside from that...), I can get those ss Markbass combos for that or less, and the GB head and cabinet together for not much more than that MB head alone.

The EBS Reidmar is the same story... pretty much the same price as the cheapest Genz Benz head (the streamliner 600, which is tube (preamp) and has a lot more wattage), it's at or around £400.

Kind of sounding like a broken record with most of those recommendations, sorry The GB and MarkBass stuff just seem to be good deals currently, and (I'm guessing, could be wrong) I suspect I'll struggle to beat them unless I find a similarly good deal on something else. Things selling at the usual going rate (as I said, I'm guessing) probably aren't going to compete, right?

Thanks again for all your help, I think I know a (little) bit more now than I did at the start.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Nov 8, 2013,
#19
Quote by Dave_Mc

Would you say the shuttle covers more ground than the streamliner? The slight spanner in the works is that, while the prices seem to be almost identical on same-wattage models, since they're on blowout, only some models are left. Only the dearer shuttles are available (plus the footswitch is extra) which would bump the price up a fair bit compared to the streamliner.

Just curious but which Shuttles are available to you? I'm hesitant to comment on the Streamliners because while I've spent a goodly amount of time trying out Shuttles and ShuttleMAX's, my experience with the Streamliners is pretty poor since I've mostly been stuck in podunk nowhere since they came out. Zipho and dark Mass are more likely to have more experience then me on the Streamliners. I do know that they're designed to be more simple and straightforward (hence the name).

If the prices are really that good then you're probably right in that you'll likely have a hard time finding a better value. GB and MB make great amps and it'll probably be hard to beat a good deal on them unless you go up to the next tier price-wise.
Composite Aficionado


Spector and Markbass
#20
I had a Genz Benz Streamliner 600 that I traded for my Mesa Big Block Titan V12. I only had a month with so my judgement on the series of amps is going to be limited.

My experience with the amp was like getting Mercedes Benz SLS with a 3 cylinder diesel.

Pros
-Genz Benz quality
-Genz Benz sound
-Simple EQ controls
-Keeps cools

Cons
-Gain stage is a bit rough around the edges with the stock tubes.
-If transparency is your goal avoid it since the tubes will color tone.
-Fragile fans
-Fragile pots
-Simple eq controls
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#21
One last embarrassing question which I probably should have asked earlier- you can turn these things down, right? I don't share any walls with neighbours so I don't need whisper volume, but I'd normally practise guitar at around 85-95dB or so, so I'd need to be able to get down to that type of level. I know the sensible thing is to just get a cheap practice amp, but that's no fun.

Quote by Tostitos
(a) Just curious but which Shuttles are available to you? I'm hesitant to comment on the Streamliners because while I've spent a goodly amount of time trying out Shuttles and ShuttleMAX's, my experience with the Streamliners is pretty poor since I've mostly been stuck in podunk nowhere since they came out. Zipho and dark Mass are more likely to have more experience then me on the Streamliners. I do know that they're designed to be more simple and straightforward (hence the name).

(b) If the prices are really that good then you're probably right in that you'll likely have a hard time finding a better value. GB and MB make great amps and it'll probably be hard to beat a good deal on them unless you go up to the next tier price-wise.


(a) At the absolute best prices, only the shuttle 9.2, unfortunately. Another store has the 9.2 and 12.2 maxes in stock, but at £100 more than the store with the best prices (and their prices on cabs are more too, and their postage charge might be more as well). Even in the shop with the best prices, once you factor in the footswitch, the shuttle 9.2 would be costing me £150 more than the streamliner 600... which isn't that much, I suppose, but at the same time considering I'd already be spending a fair bit more than I'd originally planned...

What's slightly annoying is that they have the Shuttle 12.2 max at only £50 more than the shuttle 9.2 + footswitch (and the max includes the footswitch), but they seem to be out of stock of it...

(b) Yeah that's kind of what I was thinking. I know with guitar that's normally the case, when you get a deal like this you can't really beat it with other stuff at normal prices. It's kind of a good excuse to get pro level (or near enough) gear for intermediate level prices.

Thanks again for your help.

Quote by dark Mass
I had a Genz Benz Streamliner 600 that I traded for my Mesa Big Block Titan V12. I only had a month with so my judgement on the series of amps is going to be limited.

My experience with the amp was like getting Mercedes Benz SLS with a 3 cylinder diesel.

Pros
-Genz Benz quality
-Genz Benz sound
-Simple EQ controls
-Keeps cools

Cons
-Gain stage is a bit rough around the edges with the stock tubes.
-If transparency is your goal avoid it since the tubes will color tone.
-Fragile fans
-Fragile pots
-Simple eq controls


Thanks

I have no clue about cars so you're going to have to explain that analogy to me

I'm not sure whether I want transparency or colouration, that's the problem I suppose in that case going straight down the middle might be the answer- the GB shuttle, since it has a tube in there, but it's not as tube as the streamliner. As I said above, though, the problem is that the shuttle would cost me a fair bit more money, and even the cheapest streamliner, even at these blowout prices, is more than I'd originally planned to spend (and near enough the maximum which I'd want to spend now). Though I'd be the first to admit that solely focussing on the cost is silly, there's no point in getting something cheaper if it won't do what I want, that's a false economy.

Also what you said about the fragile fans and pots is slightly concerning. I know some of their guitar amps had problems with dodgy pots etc.

Is there any difference between the reliability of the streamliner 600 and 900? They have the 900 for £100 more- don't need the extra wattage (!), but if it's made better...

----

I suppose...

The head choice is probably the genz benz contour combo- it's a fair bit cheaper, and still probably really pretty good for a first amp. I can't help feeling it's slightly dull, though. And probably not quite as good as the GB heads or the Markbass. And a bit heavy.

The Genz Benz heads (either the shuttle or the streamliner) are the heart choice- they look badass and (from the clips) sound pretty sweet too (and also have some tubes in them, which is hard to ignore as a guitar player ). But the possible reliability concerns, not to mention buying from a brand which is basically dead, are concerning. Also size and weight (of the cab).

The Markbass combos are probably in-between the head and heart choice, they're cooler than the GB contour combo and are nice and light and compact. Plus it's a well-respected brand which still exists. Slightly concerned they might sound a little too neutral, though. Plus if the postage does turn out to be £70, that would sour the deal somewhat.

So yeah. I'm not really any further on. I suppose at some point I just have to bite the bullet and pay my money and make my choice, LOL.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Nov 9, 2013,
#22
Quote by Dave_Mc


I have no clue about cars so you're going to have to explain that analogy to me

I'm not sure whether I want transparency or colouration, that's the problem

Also what you said about the fragile fans and pots is slightly concerning. I know some of their guitar amps had problems with dodgy pots etc.

Is there any difference between the reliability of the streamliner 600 and 900? They have the 900 for £100 more- don't need the extra wattage (!), but if it's made better...

To put it in guitar terms it like a buying a '59 Les Paul without it's original hardware or electronics. It's very expensive for the little that you get with the amp.

My amp had issues with it's gain and volume pots having no range beyond 1/4 turn up. The fan on mine would seize up whenever the amp was in a room that wasn't ac'd.

Anyways the 900 has the same pot issue but not the fan issue which is strange. Due to the fact they use the same fan controller, fans, and temp sensor in both models. Although the 900 comes stock with Ruby tubes and the 600 comes with Groove tubes.
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#23
Ah ok, thanks. So you're saying the streamliner is quite expensive considering how few features it has, basically?

I would say, though, that I'd put up with fewer features (assuming they aren't so few that they make the amp more difficult to use) if the sound is good. And obviously as well the fact I'd be getting it for a pretty good price is also a factor- it might be comparatively expensive at full price, but I wouldn't have to pay full price.

The A/C thing shouldn't be a problem, we rarely ever need A/C here in Northern Ireland But that is strange if the 900 didn't have the fan problem.

I know I picked up some of the Genz Benz guitar amps when they were being blown out and there were definitely some QC problems... would prefer to avoid that if possible (though the shop was very good when anything went wrong, and it's the same shop which is selling their bass stuff off for cheap).

Are there any known QC problems with MarkBass, out of interest? I think it's made in Italy, and normally it's a good sign if things are made in a first world country, but obviously there are plenty of exceptions too and you kind of have to treat each case on its own merits...

Thanks again
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Nov 9, 2013,
#24
Quote by Dave_Mc
Ah ok, thanks. So you're saying the streamliner is quite expensive considering how few features it has, basically?

I would say, though, that I'd put up with fewer features (assuming they aren't so few that they make the amp more difficult to use) if the sound is good. And obviously as well the fact I'd be getting it for a pretty good price is also a factor- it might be comparatively expensive at full price, but I wouldn't have to pay full price.

The A/C thing shouldn't be a problem, we rarely ever need A/C here in Northern Ireland But that is strange if the 900 didn't have the fan problem.

I know I picked up some of the Genz Benz guitar amps when they were being blown out and there were definitely some QC problems... would prefer to avoid that if possible (though the shop was very good when anything went wrong, and it's the same shop which is selling their bass stuff off for cheap).

Are there any known QC problems with MarkBass, out of interest? I think it's made in Italy, and normally it's a good sign if things are made in a first world country, but obviously there are plenty of exceptions too and you kind of have to treat each case on its own merits...

Thanks again

Tonally yes since you'll have that same tube warmth with slight variations of that same tone.

IME MarkBass has been pretty hit or miss since their LMII debacle. I won't get into the finer details but it's mainly about overcharging for repairs and shipping. Also their customer support is very umm Italian to say the least.
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Last edited by dark Mass at Nov 9, 2013,
#25
Thanks. So the shuttle is probably more versatile, then? But the streamliner still sounds good for the money, right? Just the versatility isn't really there. Have I got that right?

That sucks about MB too

Just to clarify, since this is fairly important- you can turn these high wattage amps down to fairly sensible practice volumes, right? I know you can do it with guitar amps so I'm guessing the same is true for bass amps, but I'd need to know for sure

Thanks again for your help.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Nov 9, 2013,
#27
Yeah that's my philosophy too. Awesome, thanks for the clarification.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#28
Quote by dark Mass
IME MarkBass has been pretty hit or miss since their LMII debacle. I won't get into the finer details but it's mainly about overcharging for repairs and shipping. Also their customer support is very umm Italian to say the least.

The sending them to the factory for repairs is the biggest gripe I've heard, that and the voltage thing but that only really matters if you're buying from a person/dealer across the pond.

I just wish they would keep the product line somewhat steady, instead of discontinuing half their heads every year. Bring back the F series and Classic 300!


Dave, if you're still going back and forth between the GB's, check out Ed Friedland's videos on youtube if you haven't already. He uses a lot of Genz Benz gear and has several reviews and demos of Shuttles, Focus cabs, and the Streamliner 900.
Composite Aficionado


Spector and Markbass
#29
Quote by Dave_Mc
Thanks. So the shuttle is probably more versatile, then? But the streamliner still sounds good for the money, right? Just the versatility isn't really there. Have I got that right?

That sucks about MB too

You've still got that tube tone that's great if you're not experimenting tonally as often as I am.

Anyways the Shuttle and Shuttle-2 lines are Genz-Benz are designed around the bassist who wants flexible tone shaping.

EDIT:If you do get a Shuttle get a Genz Benz Focus cab since they're designed for the amp.

Quote by Tostitos
The sending them to the factory for repairs is the biggest gripe I've heard, that and the voltage thing but that only really matters if you're buying from a person/dealer across the pond.

Most of the time I hear about them holding up work orders so they can overcharge the owner for the repairs done.
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Last edited by dark Mass at Nov 9, 2013,
#30
Quote by Tostitos
(a) The sending them to the factory for repairs is the biggest gripe I've heard, that and the voltage thing but that only really matters if you're buying from a person/dealer across the pond.

I just wish they would keep the product line somewhat steady, instead of discontinuing half their heads every year. Bring back the F series and Classic 300!


(b) Dave, if you're still going back and forth between the GB's, check out Ed Friedland's videos on youtube if you haven't already. He uses a lot of Genz Benz gear and has several reviews and demos of Shuttles, Focus cabs, and the Streamliner 900.


(a) Ah right, so being in Europe that wouldn't really be an issue, then?

(b) He's the bass whisperer, right? Yeah I've been listening to those non-stop I realise he's endorsed by GB, though.

I think I liked the sound and versatility of the shuttlemax the best, but then it's the dearest and even more overkill than the normal shuttle and streamliner

Quote by dark Mass
(a) You've still got that tube tone that's great if you're not experimenting tonally as often as I am.

Anyways the Shuttle and Shuttle-2 lines are Genz-Benz are designed around the bassist who wants flexible tone shaping.

EDIT:If you do get a Shuttle get a Genz Benz Focus cab since they're designed for the amp.


(b) Most of the time I hear about them holding up work orders so they can overcharge the owner for the repairs done.


(a) Thanks. I guess flexibility would be sensible since I probably want the ability to get a range of tones.

I guess, how flexible comparatively are the Streamliner and the Markbass CMD102p? I realise the shuttle (probably ideally the shuttlemax since it seems to be even more versatile) is probably the most versatile, but it's a lot more money.

And yeah odds are (if I went with any of the Genz Benz heads) I'd get the Focus (most likely the 410) cab since it's the cheapest Does the Focus series work ok with the Streamliner, too? I know the Bass Whisperer dude did a demo with the Streamliner with the Focus 410 and it sounded pretty good to me, but then what do I know?

(b) Ah that would suck. Thanks for the heads-up.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Nov 10, 2013,
#31
Quote by Dave_Mc


(a) Thanks. I guess flexibility would be sensible since I probably want the ability to get a range of tones.

I guess, how flexible comparatively are the Streamliner and the Markbass CMD102p? I realise the shuttle (probably ideally the shuttlemax since it seems to be even more versatile) is probably the most versatile, but it's a lot more money.

And yeah odds are (if I went with any of the Genz Benz heads) I'd get the Focus (most likely the 410) cab since it's the cheapest Does the Focus series work ok with the Streamliner, too? I know the Bass Whisperer dude did a demo with the Streamliner with the Focus 410 and it sounded pretty good to me, but then what do I know?

(b) Ah that would suck. Thanks for the heads-up.

1-They wouldn't be on the same planet if you're going to compare them to their flexibility. If you're going to play mainly one or two genres the Streamliner would work for you. On the other hand the MarkBass is a Swiss Army Knife with one or two tools missing. It's still flexible enough to work around it's lack of the classic tube warmth.

2-The Focus series cabs work well with both models of amps due to their transparent and flat eq response. Although I prefer the Shuttles on the Focus cabs and Streamliners on a SWR cab.
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#32
Let's throw a spanner in the works- the Phil Jones Bass Flightcase. It's a 150w combo with specially designed, very high quality, hifi like 5" speakers. In fact, Phil Jones used to work for Platinum Audio and made these speakers. It's compact, lightweight and efficient. If you end up needing more power in the future, you can buy a PB300 powered cab and daisy chain.
#33
^ Thanks, I'll check that out. EDIT: the prices on it seem to be broadly similar to what the MarkBass or Genz Benz options I've already listed would be (and getting that separate cab you suggested would double the price). Is there any reason why it'd be a better option than the MarkBass or Genz Benz stuff? I figure if I'm spending that amount of money I might as well have something which would be giggable as-is (but I could well be wrong on that, you'll know way better than I will).

Quote by dark Mass
1-They wouldn't be on the same planet if you're going to compare them to their flexibility. If you're going to play mainly one or two genres the Streamliner would work for you. On the other hand the MarkBass is a Swiss Army Knife with one or two tools missing. It's still flexible enough to work around it's lack of the classic tube warmth.

2-The Focus series cabs work well with both models of amps due to their transparent and flat eq response. Although I prefer the Shuttles on the Focus cabs and Streamliners on a SWR cab.


1- Thanks

And yeah you hit on my slight concern with the Markbass- I'm concerned it might be slightly too neutral/sterile-sounding because of the lack of tubes. also I think I read in a review that you can't turn the tweeter off with it- is that true? That being said, what few clips I've heard which highlighted the difference between the tweeter being on and off, I normally preferred it on.

Just to clarify, the shuttle is similarly versatile to the MarkBass?

2- Thanks EDIT: i'm probably being an idiot here, but what do you mean by "SWR"?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Nov 10, 2013,
#34
Quote by Dave_Mc


1- Thanks

And yeah you hit on my slight concern with the Markbass- I'm concerned it might be slightly too neutral/sterile-sounding because of the lack of tubes. also I think I read in a review that you can't turn the tweeter off with it- is that true? That being said, what few clips I've heard which highlighted the difference between the tweeter being on and off, I normally preferred it on.

Just to clarify, the shuttle is similarly versatile to the MarkBass?

2- Thanks EDIT: i'm probably being an idiot here, but what do you mean by "SWR"?

1-Yes the Shuttle would versatile enough if you dialed it in right. The simpler control layout would help a lot if you're not the fiddly type.

EDIT:If you get the regular Shuttles and not the ShuttleMAX.

2-SWR is another FMIC's bass amp brands that they're shutting down along with Genz-Benz.
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Last edited by dark Mass at Nov 10, 2013,
#35
SWR is another brand.

The Phil Jones stuff is pretty damn good, you get a lot more out of them than you'd expect. I would say, pound for pound, they are one of the most transparent, but revealing amps around. They're a lot more forgiving than, say, Krampera though, but then again, a Krampera rig will shell you around £3500 and show up every little issue with your technique.
#36
EDIT: ^ Thanks. Yeah £3500 is way over budget £1000 is way over budget, frankly

Would it be sensible to get the Phil Jones, though, when it's full price and the Genz Benz and Markbass stuff is on offer, though? You'll know better than me, but I *think* either the GBs or MB I'm looking at are giggable as is... for the same price (or less) than the Phil Jones you mentioned.

I'm kinda trying to get maximum bang for buck here, lol (as are most people, of course).

Quote by dark Mass
1-Yes the Shuttle would versatile enough if you dialed it in right. The simpler control layout would help a lot if you're not the fiddly type.

2-SWR is another FMIC's bass amp brands that they're shutting down along with Genz-Benz.


1- Thanks. From the sounds of what you've said there, though, the Markbass is more versatile? I.e. you have to "dial in right" the shuttle to make it versatile? Or am I over-interpreting what you've said?

2- Ah right, thanks.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Nov 10, 2013,
#37
Quote by dark Mass
1-Yes the Shuttle would versatile enough if you dialed it in right. The simpler control layout would help a lot if you're not the fiddly type.

EDIT:If you get the regular Shuttles and not the ShuttleMAX.

2-SWR is another FMIC's bass amp brands that they're shutting down along with Genz-Benz.


Genz Benz is going? So that's why Bass Direct are flogging them something ridiculous.
#38
^ Yeah I think so. About a year ago they were flogging the electric guitar stuff, I guess at that point they still hadn't decided about the bass stuff. But from what the guys in here are saying, the bass stuff is going too. EDIT: GAK has it even cheaper than bassdirect, fwiw.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#40
Quote by Deliriumbassist
Genz Benz is going? So that's why Bass Direct are flogging them something ridiculous.

FMIC only bought them so they could shoehorn their designs into the new Fender Rumbles and Bassman series amps. They shelved SWR for their cab designs for those series too. Which was too predictable for their treatment of bass amp manufacturers.

Anyways FMIC/KMC is also going to need to dump some brands that they've bought in the last several years. From the last I've heard Gretsch, Takamine, Jasmine, and Jackson/Charvel are next on the chopping block.
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