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#2
I'm not reading all of that. Can you summarise it?
"If God exists, there's no way he is French" - Andrea Pirlo

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#3
Quote by I.O.T.M
I'm not reading all of that. Can you summarise it?


British media demonises those who don't wear the Red Poppy (any figure in public life, celebrities, footballers, news anchors, politicians etc.) whilst demonising the pacifist White Poppy campaign and anyone against war in general.

PM goes around selling weapons to the Middle East wearing the Red Poppy, is a hypocrite.

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#4
Quote by EndTheRapture51
if you can be bothered to read it.


You don't know me very well
It's over simplified, So what!

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#5
Quote by I.O.T.M
I'm not reading all of that. Can you summarise it?

tl:dr Red poppies have become more of a routine, thus leading people to focus more on the symbol than its actual meaning;
Cameron wore a red poppy whilst marketing British weapons to evil middle-eastern dudes;
White poppies remember non-fighting victims of the war, from objectors to civilians.

I agree that lots of people only wear the poppy for show, but wearing a poppy would just be a less mainstream version of the same thing.
#6
Quote by EndTheRapture51

PM goes around selling weapons to the Middle East wearing the Red Poppy, is a hypocrite.

How?
#7
Quote by willT08
How?

Remembering the fallen and the tragedy of war/ making sure there's plenty more where that came from.
#8
People who wear the white poppy aren't evil, but they are damn annoying. And I do agree that it is silly to demonise people who aren't wearing one.
"If God exists, there's no way he is French" - Andrea Pirlo

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#9
Quote by Basti95
Remembering the fallen and the tragedy of war/ making sure there's plenty more where that came from.

Don't really see it. The Red Poppy isn't a promise to pacifism
#10
I just about always agree with AAV and this is no exception

Another thing worth noting is that the poppy thing has become a way to get Facebook likes

You get those people posting "1- LIKE = 1 RESPECT" on a picture of a poppy and then those racist shitbags who post "RANDOM MUSLIM WHO DOESN'T EXIST HATES POPPIES! DEPORT THEM! 1 LIKE = 1 DEPORTED MUSLIM"

And frankly it's bullshit
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#11
I wouldn't wear a white poppy. I don't think it's right to buy a white poppy when the money isn't going to a charity that deals with veterans or wounded soldiers.
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#12
Quote by Basti95
Remembering the fallen and the tragedy of war/ making sure there's plenty more where that came from.


This.

Its remembering those who died during the World Wars who fought for our country. Our PM wearing a poppy and selling weapons to middle eastern countries is contradictory. Its saying "I remember the ones who died in the wars but I will happily sell weapons so other countries can start them themselves".

Cameron needs to go. Fast.
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#13
The red poppy shit fucking annoys me. Yeah, walk around with your shitty-ass coloured paper flower, pretend you give a shit along with the other millions afraid to stop pretending to give a shit in case they get called out for it. You don't need a fucking cardboard cutout to pay respect to the dead. Everyone has their own method of commemoration and homogenizing it with some dumbfuck poppy cheapens the true meaning of the day.
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#14
If you a wear a white poppy then you're a ****. Pacifism, especially with regards to WW1 and 2 - which are what the red poppy is mostly associated (obviously more the first) - is abhorrent and naive.

I don't wear a red poppy, but going out of your way to say '**** you' on Remembrance day by wearing a white one and then trying to defend it by saying that Cameron is dubious is a dick move.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
Last edited by Todd Hart at Nov 10, 2013,
#16
Quote by Todd Hart
If you a wear a white poppy then you're a ****. Pacifism, especially with regards to WW1 and 2 - which are what the red poppy is mostly associated (obviously more the first) - is abhorrent and naive.

I don't wear a red poppy, but going out of your way to say '**** you' on Remembrance day by wearing a white one and then trying to defend it by saying that Cameron is dubious is a dick move.


With a white one I thought the message is you are sad that all of the soldiers have died in war, but you're a pacifist and thus saying war is wrong. Not saying "**** you" to everyone.

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#17
Quote by entity0009
The red poppy shit fucking annoys me. Yeah, walk around with your shitty-ass coloured paper flower, pretend you give a shit along with the other millions afraid to stop pretending to give a shit in case they get called out for it. You don't need a fucking cardboard cutout to pay respect to the dead. Everyone has their own method of commemoration and homogenizing it with some dumbfuck poppy cheapens the true meaning of the day.

Careful: sharp edges.
"If God exists, there's no way he is French" - Andrea Pirlo

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#18
I'm pretty sure the PPU's stance on WW2 was "why can't hitler have some colonies?"
"If God exists, there's no way he is French" - Andrea Pirlo

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#19
Quote by EndTheRapture51
With a white one I thought the message is you are sad that all of the soldiers have died in war, but you're a pacifist and thus saying war is wrong. Not saying "**** you" to everyone.


If you think Britain was wrong to enter into World Wars one and two then you're implicitly saying that the protection of state sovereignty isn't a legitimate thing to defend, which I would suggest is an abhorrent point of view.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#20
Quote by Todd Hart
If you think Britain was wrong to enter into World Wars one and two then you're implicitly saying that the protection of state sovereignty isn't a legitimate thing to defend, which I would suggest is an abhorrent point of view.


How about just being opposed to war in all of it's form?

Being against loss of human life, and war, is certainly not abhorrent. Being in favour of any kind of war is something I would suggest as abhorrent.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#21
Quote by I.O.T.M
Careful: sharp edges.

No sharp edges at all. I got called out at work today for not wearing a poppy, and even after I explained that I actually make a habit of donating every year to the Poppy Appeal (and various other charities but that's irrelevant), but I just don't agree with the idea of wearing the poppy, I was told that I need to learn some respect. So fuck that. People think that wearing some cheapass pin entitles them to suddenly pass judgement on those who don't.
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#22
Quote by EndTheRapture51

Being against loss of human life, and war, is certainly not abhorrent. Being in favour of any kind of war is something I would suggest as abhorrent.

I don't know how you manage to be a spack about everything
#23
Quote by EndTheRapture51
How about just being opposed to war in all of it's form?

Being against loss of human life, and war, is certainly not abhorrent. Being in favour of any kind of war is something I would suggest as abhorrent.

So if a foreign army marched into Britain now, you wouldn't take up arms to defend the country? War is always costly in human terms, but sometimes it is necessary.
"If God exists, there's no way he is French" - Andrea Pirlo

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#24
Agree with the article it is absolutely a symbol of conformity and has subsequently lost its meaning.
#25
Quote by EndTheRapture51
How about just being opposed to war in all of it's form?

Being against loss of human life, and war, is certainly not abhorrent. Being in favour of any kind of war is something I would suggest as abhorrent.


A naive and untenable position if ever there was one. And besides, you cannot be anti-war. Being anti-WW1, for example, would require you to say that the German occupation and invasion of France and Belgium was acceptable, unless you're going to say that everyone should be anti-war just because you are.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#26
Quote by I.O.T.M
So if a foreign army marched into Britain now, you wouldn't take up arms to defend the country? War is always costly in human terms, but sometimes it is necessary.


I would argue as a Western society that we should beyond war by now, the west hasn't had a war with itself since WW2 pretty much, and peddling weapons to Middle Easter/African nations is an immoral thing to do.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#27
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I would argue as a Western society that we should beyond war by now, the west hasn't had a war with itself since WW2 pretty much, and peddling weapons to Middle Easter/African nations is an immoral thing to do.


What on Earth does weapon pedaling have to do with whether or not war as a concept is justifiable?

Look, no-one wants deaths*, but being anti-war isn't going to reduce casualties, it just ensures that the casualties are civilian rather than military.


*Well, certain deaths are okay.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
Last edited by Todd Hart at Nov 10, 2013,
#28
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I would argue as a Western society that we should beyond war by now, the west hasn't had a war with itself since WW2 pretty much, and peddling weapons to Middle Easter/African nations is an immoral thing to do.

I'm sure the invading/occupying army would agree with you and leave.
"If God exists, there's no way he is French" - Andrea Pirlo

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#29
Quote by I.O.T.M
I'm sure the invading/occupying army would agree with you and leave.


I'd argue Western society is beyond the point in history of having international conflicts every few weeks. Western Europe/America/Canada has had no wars on home soil for what...at least 60 years if not more?

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#30
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I'd argue Western society is beyond the point in history of having international conflicts every few weeks. Western Europe/America/Canada has had no wars on home soil for what...at least 60 years if not more?


Yeah, Germany certainly wasn't in a tense state of civil war for half a century.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#31
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I'd argue Western society is beyond the point in history of having international conflicts every few weeks. Western Europe/America/Canada has had no wars on home soil for what...at least 60 years if not more?

It was a hypothetical, and you completely evaded the question because your position is untenable.

Say Australia invaded New Zealand (another unrealistic hypothetical situation), would people in New Zealand be justified in fighting back?
"If God exists, there's no way he is French" - Andrea Pirlo

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#32
Oh, and the Falklands weren't attacked.

Nope, no war on our soil for decades.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#33
Even if France did invade Britain hardly anything is going to change.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#34
Could you please be more subtle in the way you avoid questions?

If France attempted to invade Britain (lol) would Britain be wrong in fighting back? Further, would Britain's allies be wrong for helping Britain militarily?

edit: And we're ignoring the fact that Britain v. France is possibly the hardest to imagine modern international conflict you could have picked.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
Last edited by Todd Hart at Nov 10, 2013,
#35
It all depends on personal reasons and the context of the war and the history. If the majority of people wanted the armed forces to fight back against France purely for defense...well then fair enough, but I think people who don't want to fight should be allowed the chance to not fight. But if the majority of the British people were cool about coming under French government, then I think Parliament would just have to give in and surrender to French rule.

I would condone a diplomatic solution. I would also not condone America deciding to nuke France for invading Britain, or any sort of counter attack by Britain in the case that Britain decided to defend itself.

EDIT: well I doubt Spain vs Britain will ever happen even over Gibaltar, and even the Falklands Part 2 will likely be very doubtful.

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Last edited by EndTheRapture51 at Nov 10, 2013,
#36
Quote by EndTheRapture51
It all depends on personal reasons and the context of the war and the history. If the majority of people wanted the armed forces to fight back against France purely for defense...well then fair enough, but I think people who don't want to fight should be allowed the chance to not fight. But if the majority of the British people were cool about coming under French government, then I think Parliament would just have to give in and surrender to French rule.

I would condone a diplomatic solution. I would also not condone America deciding to nuke France for invading Britain, or any sort of counter attack by Britain in the case that Britain decided to defend itself.


They have the chance not to fight, we don't have compulsory military service. And you can't be serious? You think countries should just be dissolved if the people like the sound of it/are cowards?
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#37
Quote by I.O.T.M
It was a hypothetical, and you completely evaded the question because your position is untenable.

Say Australia invaded New Zealand (another unrealistic hypothetical situation), would people in New Zealand be justified in fighting back?

He evaded the question because it's ****ing stupid. Would I defend myself and would it be justifiable? Irrelevant. It would just not be justifiable for Australia to start a war beforehand. That's the point.
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#38
Quote by shelovemyguitar
He evaded the question because it's ****ing stupid. Would I defend myself and would it be justifiable? Irrelevant. It would just not be justifiable for Australia to start a war beforehand. That's the point.


Thank you for being a voice of reason.

Regardless, if France invaded Britain, I don't think I'd sign up to fight.

Nationalism just isn't that important to me that I'd risk losing my life for it.

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#39
Quote by shelovemyguitar
He evaded the question because it's ****ing stupid. Would I defend myself and would it be justifiable? Irrelevant. It would just not be justifiable for Australia to start a war beforehand. That's the point.

It is relevant because pacifism opposes violent resistance.

Quote by EndTheRapture51
Thank you for being a voice of reason.

Regardless, if France invaded Britain, I don't think I'd sign up to fight.

Nationalism just isn't that important to me that I'd risk losing my life for it.

You do realise that occupying armies aren't kind people? Civilians get abused whether they're actively opposing them or not.

Nationalism is completely different from defending national sovereignty. Surely you recognise that.
"If God exists, there's no way he is French" - Andrea Pirlo

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#40
Quote by I.O.T.M
It is relevant because pacifism opposes violent resistance.


You do realise that occupying armies aren't kind people? Civilians get abused whether they're actively opposing them or not.

Nationalism is completely different from defending national sovereignty. Surely you recognise that.


I recognise that but look where war has got us.

Non-violent movements are always remembered, eg. MLK, Gandhi, Suffragists etc.

I don't care about being in the army. Even if Britain got invaded I wouldn't join the army, because I don't want to be turned into a killing machine, my strengths don't lie in my physicality, and I couldn't bring myself to kill another human, regardless of if they'd committed atrocities.

Surely you recognise that.

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