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kyuseok
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#1
Can Gibson's model use coil-splitting with pushing/pulling knobs?
and what are the differences between them except body, fretboard wood materials, and bridge??
T00DEEPBLUE
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#2
No. But coil splitting isn't a particularly good feature anyway. It makes the pickups underpowered.

The differences between the two guitars are vast. To put it simply, virtually every component of a Gibson and the way those features are applied is better than an Epiphone.

I just wish a sticky was made to specifically describe the differences between the two guitars because this topic is so common.
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kyuseok
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#3
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
No. But coil splitting isn't a particularly good feature anyway. It makes the pickups underpowered.

The differences between the two guitars are vast. To put it simply, virtually every component of a Gibson and the way those features are applied is better than an Epiphone.

I just wish a sticky was made to specifically describe the differences between the two guitars because this topic is so common.

Thnx
Slap-happy
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#4
An Australian company, Maton - http://www.maton.com.au/ have put some pickups in their Mastersound series that they claim have no drop in output when tapped. I have yet to try one out. The previous models had a noticeable drop in output. I tried the Josh Homme signature model a couple of years ago.

The 2013 Gibson Les Paul Standard has coil taps and would still remain a superior Guitar to the Epiphone LP Custom PRO.
It's an opinion. It's subjective. And I'm right, anyway.
Robbgnarly
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#5
My PRS sound great in HB mode or in single coil. But the pickups were designed to do this
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kurt_cobain9
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#6
Truth be told, TS, I've played some Epiphone's that I preferred over the Gibson counter part. I've played some Gibson's I've preferred over the Epiphone's.

Quality of wood is a factor, and the components, but to be honest, that can all be swapped out relatively cheaply. pots and caps are very cheap. You could swap the cheap asian electronics out for something superior. You can also upgrade the bridge and tail piece rather cheap. And if you like the pick ups, keep them. if you don't, swap them. Personally, while many would consider the Gibson version to be the superior instrument, it all comes down to your preferences. If you like the feel of the epi, the sound of the epi or feel you can mod it and still have a wallet friendly purchase, I say go with the epi. if you like it, that's all that matters. in my opinion, change the pots, caps, the bridge and tail piece, and maybe the pickups (the pickups depend on you), and you've got a gibson at a fraction of the cost.
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Robbgnarly
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#7
Quote by kurt_cobain9
Truth be told, TS, I've played some Epiphone's that I preferred over the Gibson counter part. I've played some Gibson's I've preferred over the Epiphone's.

Quality of wood is a factor, and the components, but to be honest, that can all be swapped out relatively cheaply. pots and caps are very cheap. You could swap the cheap asian electronics out for something superior. You can also upgrade the bridge and tail piece rather cheap. And if you like the pick ups, keep them. if you don't, swap them. Personally, while many would consider the Gibson version to be the superior instrument, it all comes down to your preferences. If you like the feel of the epi, the sound of the epi or feel you can mod it and still have a wallet friendly purchase, I say go with the epi. if you like it, that's all that matters. in my opinion, change the pots, caps, the bridge and tail piece, and maybe the pickups (the pickups depend on you), and you've got a gibson at a fraction of the cost.

While I agree you can get a great Epi, changing out parts doesn't give you a Gibson on a budget. It gives you a Epi that you put more money in, then it will be worth into.
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kurt_cobain9
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#8
Quote by Robbgnarly
While I agree you can get a great Epi, changing out parts doesn't give you a Gibson on a budget. It gives you a Epi that you put more money in, then it will be worth into.


Like I said, Pots aren't that much. Caps aren't that much. pickups are probably the most expensive thing you're going to throw in there. If you were going to fork out the money for a gibson les paul custom, you already have more money than you really do brains. By putting the money into the epi, you're not going to have an inferior instrument to the gibson, and you're still not going to put in more money than it's worth. most of that price tag on the gibson comes from the name on the headstock. While I respect your opinion, I gotta agree to disagree, because there is really nothing special about a gibson compared to an epiphone. it doesn't take much to make an epi stand up to a stock gibson, and you're still forking out a fraction of the price.
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dspellman
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#9
Quote by kyuseok
Can Gibson's model use coil-splitting with pushing/pulling knobs?


Virtually any humbucker guitar can be set up with coil-splitting.
dspellman
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#10
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
No. But coil splitting isn't a particularly good feature anyway. It makes the pickups underpowered.


Highly inaccurate blanket statement, IMHO.

I think coil-splitting is a great feature. As for "underpowered," -- it depends on the pickups. Some humbuckers sound great when split, and I have several examples on my guitars. I have a few guitars with three-way individual miniswitches for each pickup that allow me to select serial/parallel/single coil operation. A couple of others have P Rail pickups (this is applicable to LP Customs, of course) that allow you to select serial (standard humbucker), parallel, P90 coil and rail coil operation. Each of the coils is a full-on coil of that particular pickup, and there are three levels of power choice for PRails.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
The differences between the two guitars are vast. To put it simply, virtually every component of a Gibson and the way those features are applied is better than an Epiphone. I just wish a sticky was made to specifically describe the differences between the two guitars because this topic is so common


I'm not at all sure that's true. "Better" is really a subjective evaluation, and while you would certainly *expect* that Gibson would give you better everything across the board given the price difference, I'm not sure that's really true.

I have an Agile Custom (we'll use that to fill in for Epiphone for the moment) that arrived on the very same day as an Axcess Custom some years ago. Both have ebony fretboards, real shell inlays (the Agile is abalone, the Gibson is MOP), multilayer binding. The Agile has a 3/4" flame top, the Axcess is all mahogany. The Axcess has a two-piece body, the Agile has a one-piece body. The Axcess is a set neck, the Agile neck-through. Both have the same OFR, both have identical pickups, sustainers, tuners, pots, everything. Both needed a run on the PLEK and a fret superglue. The Gibson's pricetag was $4K, the Agile's was $1100. In the end, set up identically in every way, the Agile ended up being the better guitar and has a better spec. I prefer the way it plays and sounds (there are differences due to construction).

I can't say that the same applies to the Epiphone, but I haven't seen a sticky anywhere that really identifies specific differences between the Gibson and the Epiphone version in terms of "better" or quantifies those differences as a component of the price spread.


.
T00DEEPBLUE
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#11
Quote by dspellman
Highly inaccurate blanket statement, IMHO.

I think coil-splitting is a great feature. As for "underpowered," -- it depends on the pickups. Some humbuckers sound great when split, and I have several examples on my guitars. I have a few guitars with three-way individual miniswitches for each pickup that allow me to select serial/parallel/single coil operation. A couple of others have P Rail pickups (this is applicable to LP Customs, of course) that allow you to select serial (standard humbucker), parallel, P90 coil and rail coil operation. Each of the coils is a full-on coil of that particular pickup, and there are three levels of power choice for PRails.

I don''t see why really that matters when those pickups don't come on Gibson or Epiphone LP's.
Quote by dspellman

I'm not at all sure that's true. "Better" is really a subjective evaluation, and while you would certainly *expect* that Gibson would give you better everything across the board given the price difference, I'm not sure that's really true.

I see this point as rather contradictory. You've said that a Gibson LP objectively (as confirmed by the bolded word) isn't better given the price difference, when you just said that 'better' is a subjective evaluation. That it is wrong to objectify 'better', when you have just tried to objectify it in your own argument.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Nov 12, 2013,
MaaZeus
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#12
Do the high end Epiphones come with Gibson-style nitrocellulose lacquer or is it poly like everyone else? It (nitro) can be gorgeous but it can also be pain. Its sticky before it dries properly (time should take care of that) and is picky about guitar stands: it gets stained by a lot of plastic paddings. And it yellows and even crack over time.

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Last edited by MaaZeus at Nov 12, 2013,
T00DEEPBLUE
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#13
Epiphones these days use all polyurethane finishes.
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gregs1020
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#14
i'm not certain that any modern day epiphones got nitro finishes.

maybe a high level mij orville RI, but i'm preeeety sure epi's are all poly.

dspellman or parwau (sp) will know for sure.
Quote by Roc8995
I don't think I've ever played anything in black walnut. It's a great ice cream flavor, so I assume it works well for a strat too.

Quote by JustRooster
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#15
Quote by gregs1020
i'm not certain that any modern day epiphones got nitro finishes.

maybe a high level mij orville RI, but i'm preeeety sure epi's are all poly.

dspellman or parwau (sp) will know for sure.

Yes all production Epis are Poly finish. I'm not sure of the Elitist or the MIJ ones, but the one youy can buy in the USA are poly.
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Robbgnarly
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#16
Quote by kurt_cobain9
Like I said, Pots aren't that much. Caps aren't that much. pickups are probably the most expensive thing you're going to throw in there. If you were going to fork out the money for a gibson les paul custom, you already have more money than you really do brains. By putting the money into the epi, you're not going to have an inferior instrument to the gibson, and you're still not going to put in more money than it's worth. most of that price tag on the gibson comes from the name on the headstock. While I respect your opinion, I gotta agree to disagree, because there is really nothing special about a gibson compared to an epiphone. it doesn't take much to make an epi stand up to a stock gibson, and you're still forking out a fraction of the price.

I've owned several LP customs and they were great guitars. Not overpriced at all IMO. Just because you can not justify spending the money on one, doesn't mean others feel the same. What is speciall is that it is not a Epi, it is a Gibson. If you put money into a Toyota does that make it as good or better than a Ferrari? Maybe, but the Ferrari is still a Ferrari and the Toyota is just that.
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RobinTH
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#17
Quote by Robbgnarly
Yes all production Epis are Poly finish. I'm not sure of the Elitist or the MIJ ones, but the one youy can buy in the USA are poly.


Currently the are all poly finishes. There were exceptions in the past, like the MIJ LQ-Series, the USA Series LP, SG & Map guitars and the Nashville Series Riviera and Sheraton. There is a good chance that any USA Epiphone will have a Nitro finish. Though I'm not certain about the Historic Reissue Wilshire. Probably though.
Preacher403
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#18
I would say that the Epiphone can be about 90% that of a Gibson Custom, and possibly equal or better than a Studio. That last 10% may well be worth the extra couple thousand to some. However, since a lot of people like to bring up "worth", think about this: Buy the Gibson Custom and the moment you walk out the store with it, you've probably LOST as much money in resale as the entire Epiphone would cost. And you may still want to mod it.

Personally I prefer to just buy the lower cost guitars and mod them to my taste.
2many_hobbies
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#19
Quote by Preacher403
I would say that the Epiphone can be about 90% that of a Gibson Custom, and possibly equal or better than a Studio. That last 10% may well be worth the extra couple thousand to some. However, since a lot of people like to bring up "worth", think about this: Buy the Gibson Custom and the moment you walk out the store with it, you've probably LOST as much money in resale as the entire Epiphone would cost. And you may still want to mod it.

Personally I prefer to just buy the lower cost guitars and mod them to my taste.


True that. Your net loss on a new Gibson is thousands more. All for the headstock and marginal quality over a hot-rodded Epi. To each their own, but thousands of my hard earned dollars will not go to a logo and open book headstock...its the same thing as throwing out a couple dandy players
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#20
Quote by Robbgnarly
If you put money into a Toyota does that make it as good or better than a Ferrari? Maybe, but the Ferrari is still a Ferrari and the Toyota is just that.


The difference is we are not comparing a Toyota to a Ferrari. More like a Camaro ZL1 to a Corvette. The fields are not that far apart
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#21
Quote by 2many_hobbies
The difference is we are not comparing a Toyota to a Ferrari. More like a Camaro ZL1 to a Corvette. The fields are not that far apart


Quote by Roc8995
I don't think I've ever played anything in black walnut. It's a great ice cream flavor, so I assume it works well for a strat too.

Quote by JustRooster
The slugs in the pickups for telecasters are from old winchester rifles, which is why they sound so country.
T00DEEPBLUE
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#22
Quote by 2many_hobbies
The difference is we are not comparing a Toyota to a Ferrari. More like a Camaro ZL1 to a Corvette. The fields are not that far apart

Oh no you didn't.
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samuraigoomba
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#24
Marginal quality over a hot-rodded Epi? I'm not sure that statement is correct. I mean sure, if quality is just a subjective term, then whatever. I can just say I prefer my Tokai to a vintage 1956 Fender American Strat, and it's true because shit is subjective. But the Gibson is probably going to have way better wood, be constructed better, be worth more if you ever decide to sell, look nicer, age better, and stand up to the rigors of daily use and touring better than the Epi.
Roc8995
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#25
Shhh, you're ruining it. If you want to help you need to start pretending that tone exists in percents and saying that anything over $600 is for snobs. I bet you've even played a few before, haven't you? Probably more than two models, even. You make me sick.


Seriously, though, it's hard to reconcile a lot of these ideas because some people who are just starting out, or on a smaller budget, see a $3K guitar and think, that's absurd, it can't be worth that much. And people who have maybe collected a bunch of gear, or have more to spend, look at a $500 guitar and think, why buy that if there's something better?
Anyway, it's a bit of sour grapes on one end and a bit of snobbery on the other, but I think saying that the quality difference is marginal is just not accurate to most people.
2many_hobbies
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#26
Sorry, Gibby's hit and miss quality kills me. I've picked up $3k LP's that I wouldn't thank you for. I'll take an Elite/Elitist over any $3K gibby...
Roc8995
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#27
You know you can actually pick the one you buy, right? They don't make you spin a roulette wheel in the store and just ring you up with a random guitar. If you find a really good one you can actually just go home with it. QC issues are such a dead horse, they still make good guitars.
gregs1020
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#28
and whatever you do, do not play any old tokai les pauls from the 80s.

those things are complete crap.
Quote by Roc8995
I don't think I've ever played anything in black walnut. It's a great ice cream flavor, so I assume it works well for a strat too.

Quote by JustRooster
The slugs in the pickups for telecasters are from old winchester rifles, which is why they sound so country.
samuraigoomba
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#30
Quote by gregs1020
and whatever you do, do not play any old tokai les pauls from the 80s.

those things are complete crap.

I'm surprised that people do the "agile/epiphone are better than gibson" argument around here, but I tend not to hear so much about "tokai/edwards/greco/fernandes are better than gibson."

Yet I think most people would admit that Tokai > Agile/Epiphone. Tokais aren't even much more expensive than Epiphones and Agiles. I paid $350+ shipping for mine. You can get an older Tokai for about the same as an upper-end Epiphone or Gibson Studio.

There seems to be less of a motive to "prove" that Tokai > Gibson, because a lot of Tokai owners also own Fender and Gibson guitars. The posts I've seen on Tokai > Gibson were not too harsh on the Gibsons. I dunno, I suppose there could be some corner of the internet full of Tokai love and Gibbo hate.
gregs1020
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#31
Quote by samuraigoomba
I'm surprised that people do the "agile/epiphone are better than gibson" argument around here, but I tend not to hear so much about "tokai/edwards/greco/fernandes are better than gibson."

Yet I think most people would admit that Tokai > Agile/Epiphone. Tokais aren't even much more expensive than Epiphones and Agiles. I paid $350+ shipping for mine. You can get an older Tokai for about the same as an upper-end Epiphone or Gibson Studio.

There seems to be less of a motive to "prove" that Tokai > Gibson, because a lot of Tokai owners also own Fender and Gibson guitars. The posts I've seen on Tokai > Gibson were not too harsh on the Gibsons. I dunno, I suppose there could be some corner of the internet full of Tokai love and Gibbo hate.

there is.

we tokai fans like to keep it on the hush.

so don't pay any attention to my posts about tokai in the les paul thread. all bullshit.
Quote by Roc8995
I don't think I've ever played anything in black walnut. It's a great ice cream flavor, so I assume it works well for a strat too.

Quote by JustRooster
The slugs in the pickups for telecasters are from old winchester rifles, which is why they sound so country.
Last edited by gregs1020 at Nov 12, 2013,
2many_hobbies
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#32
I don't hate Gibby either, I just don't like inconsistency and price gouging. I'll never own one unless their pricing comes into reality. Its the same crap that GM pulled in recent years and admitted.
samuraigoomba
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#33
Quote by gregs1020
there is.

we tokai fans like to keep it on the hush.

so don't pay any attention to my posts about tokai in the les paul thread. all bullshit.



Well, I'm loving my Tokai strat so much that my first Les Paul is almost certainly going to be a Tokai. MIC or MIJ, not sure which.

No doubt I'll be boarding the gibbo hate train before long! Gotta justify that purchase!
Robbgnarly
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#34
Quote by 2many_hobbies
The difference is we are not comparing a Toyota to a Ferrari. More like a Camaro ZL1 to a Corvette. The fields are not that far apart

Why Toyota makes cars and so does Ferrari, it makes perfect sense to use that comparison. One is a "cheap" car company the other is very "expensive".

You young guys that can not afford/don't want to afford a certain tier of guitars are funny. Besides Epiphone is the cheap line of Gibson

But your obviously an expert on this subject so........

Go hold your Epi in the dark and tell it, it is the best

PS: GM makes really inexpensive cars for the most part. Sounds like someone needs to find a decent job to me with all the bitching your doing about expensive this and that.
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Last edited by Robbgnarly at Nov 13, 2013,
RobinTH
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#35
These Epiphone Vs. Gibson threads always crack me up. I love Epiphones and am a huge Epiphone fan, obviously. But even I can see the glaring differences between the two brands. A quick glance at a spec sheet between two similar Epi & Gibson models is more than enough to get an idea of their dissimilarities. And a little more research will show you just how different they really are...even though they are very similar at the same time.

The part that kills me about these arguments is that between the higher ends Epis and the lower end Gibsons, the line of quality and value has been purposely blurred by the Gibson Corporation over the past ten or twenty years, yet people still argue about which is better. Epiphone even uses Gibson and other high end parts to help facilitate that blurring, while Gibson makes low-end, lesser quality models with scetchy construction & QC for the same reason. The funny thing is, while Epiphone and Gibson are happy to be in bed with eachother, their customers argue about the differences like the company are still rivals. HAHA! Jokes on you, suckas!
2many_hobbies
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#36
Quote by Robbgnarly
Why Toyota makes cars and so does Ferrari, it makes perfect sense to use that comparison. One is a "cheap" car company the other is very "expensive".

Go hold your Epi in the dark and tell it, it is the best

PS: GM makes really inexpensive cars for the most part. Sounds like someone needs to find a decent job to me with all the bitching your doing about expensive this and that.


A) "Toyota VS Ferrari" would be comparing an entry level Epi LP100 to a gibbo custom. But we're talking an Epi Pro thats been hot rodded further. If you dont like the camaro/vette comparason, lets use buick/cadillac

B) I never said the Epi was best, better or equivalent. Don't put words in my mouth

C) I make as much as your average HS principal, but I also believe in the old addage that a fool and his money are soon parted. I'm not falling for marketing schemes in anything I buy.

All I'm saying is that the Gibson products are highly overrated. Their QC control is consistent...consistently hit and miss. People buy into the crap that NA made is automatically better and Pacific rim is crap. Fine, Japanese made instruments were consistently good....not just good, but excellent. Korea, is becoming the new Japan.
Why? Dedication. Unlike the typical under-worked, overpaid, complacent, union minded, under-performing north american worker who "wants more" before they "DO more". Trust me, I deal with this crap ALL THE TIME.

There's a reason Gibson quashed the Elitist line. It hurt their sales...and their pride.
Robbgnarly
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#37
Quote by 2many_hobbies
A) "Toyota VS Ferrari" would be comparing an entry level Epi LP100 to a gibbo custom. But we're talking an Epi Pro thats been hot rodded further. If you dont like the camaro/vette comparason, lets use buick/cadillac

B) I never said the Epi was best, better or equivalent. Don't put words in my mouth

C) I make as much as your average HS principal, but I also believe in the old addage that a fool and his money are soon parted. I'm not falling for marketing schemes in anything I buy.

All I'm saying is that the Gibson products are highly overrated. Their QC control is consistent...consistently hit and miss. People buy into the crap that NA made is automatically better and Pacific rim is crap. Fine, Japanese made instruments were consistently good....not just good, but excellent. Korea, is becoming the new Japan.
Why? Dedication. Unlike the typical under-worked, overpaid, complacent, union minded, under-performing north american worker who "wants more" before they "DO more". Trust me, I deal with this crap ALL THE TIME.

There's a reason Gibson quashed the Elitist line. It hurt their sales...and their pride.

Gibson's low end (Studio, Special) do vary in quality, I'll give you that. But once you get past that the QC is pretty damn good. There is a reason people refer to MIA as superior, in most cases it really is. I'll give you MIJ has great stuff, but it is as expensive as MIA these days

Gibson stopped the Elitist for the USA because the guitars were not selling well here. Not because they were better or worse instuments. The Elitist was the only line with hurt sales.

Before you hop on this forum and act like you know something, do a little research so you at least look like you know what your talking about
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samuraigoomba
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#38
For the price, I would personally rather go MIJ than MIA, and I would even argue that MIJ is a little bit cheaper than MIA if you are shopping for certain kinds of guitars (bolt-on master race!)
dazza027
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#39
Here we go again, this old chestnut.... Ive disregarded all that's been said before... Gibson is better than Epiphone. Why? Because Epiphone is owned by Gibson, and Gibson say themselves that Gibson is better than Epiphone, and priced accordingly. End of story. Sure, each one is different, some are duds. But you'll get that variation across all brands of guitar. PLEASE MAKE A STICKY re Gibson and Epiphone!!!
marantz1300
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#40
If you were rich and cost didn't matter.
You would buy a Gibson, even if they were very similar.
How many super stars play Epi's?