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#1
Sorry about starting another topic but I've searched only to find dead ends. So I've been hunting a guitar tone but only have a few pedals (most notably my Crybaby Wylde Wah and Boss Chorus Ensemble, which I love), a Marshall MG-15, a Fender Rumble 15, and the game Rocksmith (PS3). I can connect all of them together.

The tone I'm looking for is dark, watery, and gothic with aggression to spare. Basically I'd like a gothic or watery tone. Worse yet, I only have under $80 to spend. I also dislike multi-effect pedals as they sound too cheesy and synthetic to me. So do you have any suggestions for a pedal or settings for my gear to achieve this?

Please respond politely.
#2
I think a flanger with the regen turned down and the other knobs on radical settings may be what you are looking for. Post us a vid of what you actually mean so we have a better idea what you are trying to achieve.
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#3
watery?

please post an example.

i'd think the chorus would get there but obviously not.
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#4
Flanger is a good way to go if the chorus pedal isn't your style. Look for 80s ones like the tokai tfl-2 or like a boss. They're practically Robert Smith in a box.

I know they're more than $80 but an amp like a used Roland jc-50 would probably be a big step towards getting a better sound like you want. Remember your amp is really where most of your tone comes from as everthing else runs through it.

If you want to get really out there look into modulated reverb pedals. Once again out of your range but the Mr. Black Supermoon get some really cool haunting sounds. I'm sure you can find a cheaper modulated reverb out there, but that's just a really cool example.

Edit: it might actually be called the jc-60. I forget.
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Last edited by snipelfritz at Nov 13, 2013,
#5
People say chorus will get me there but does anyone know good settings for the sound I want. I'd like my tone Watery and Gothic with minimal gear. I also use a Bass BigMuff to connect my amps together. Thanks for the advice
#6
Can you post examples of what you mean? "Watery" and "Gothic" are very vague terms and could be interpreted a million ways. When I hear "watery" I think of Nirvana's "Come As You Are" (EHX Small Clone), whereas people here are thinking flanger pedals.


With the gear you listed, I would highly recommend picking up a used Peavey Vypyr 15. Not only would you have a superior amp to your MG15, you would have a basic set of effects to toy with and figure out what you're after. There isn't any reason to invest in pedals to push through a MG
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#7
Quote by Flux'D
Can you post examples of what you mean? "Watery" and "Gothic" are very vague terms and could be interpreted a million ways. When I hear "watery" I think of Nirvana's "Come As You Are" (EHX Small Clone), whereas people here are thinking flanger pedals.


With the gear you listed, I would highly recommend picking up a used Peavey Vypyr 15. Not only would you have a superior amp to your MG15, you would have a basic set of effects to toy with and figure out what you're after. There isn't any reason to invest in pedals to push through a MG


when i hear that i am thinking of Emperor's first album with the gothic and the waterlike sound of black metal.

look for an old ampeg SS amp at that price. i picked up a 1x12" hybrid combo for under $40, i actually think $30 because there was no footswitch and i ht the guy up with 'how do i know the cleans actually work if i cant try the channel' arguement. the guy that that made sense. it is a phenomenal clean platform.

with your budget you will probably have to jump off on the way to somebody from CL and see what it does.

patience with that budget. NO marshall MG, NO line 6 spider

save up or +1 to FLux'd ^
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#8
Great suggestions but what's gothic and watery about a good clean? I was thinking about getting a good tone with the amps I have (a Fender Rumble and a Marshall MG15). However I might consider an Ampeg SS, I'm sure the local pawnshop has one.

I also agree that a Melodic Black Metal tone would fit my description pretty well but how would I obtain that? Thanks for the advice everyone.
#9
Please post a YouTube video or something. I don't think anyone really knows what you mean by "watery" and "gothic."
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#10
I mean Emperor (Norwegian Black Metal band) meets Voltaire (The guy who sings "When Your Evil") only wetter. That's pretty much what "Gothic and Watery" means. It also describes a sound I have in my head that I'm searching for. Honestly I don't get what's so confusing about that. Could someone give more advice or maybe settings for my Fender Rumble and/or Boss CE-5 that would help.
#11
For starters, the Rumble is a bass amp and the little MG you have a very subpar amp by any imaginable standard you could come up with. Pedals aren't going to get you to the tone you want with your amp(s), you need a different amp to achieve the tones you're after. With a budget of $80 you're looking at a Vypyr 15 or some obscure solid state amp.

We aren't inside your head, so we have no idea what sound is in there. The Emperor mention is the only valid explanation you've given to the tone you're after, aside from the vague descriptors of "watery" and "gothic".


What guitar are you using, out of curiosity?
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#12
Please don't laugh but I'm using a Fender Squier Stratocaster (it's black and white and is about 3 years old). I love that thing and don't want to get a new guitar until it breaks. I like the way it sounds and it's very precious to me.

Anyway I'm sorry my description is so vague. I also like my Fender Rumble but maybe you guys are right about getting a new amp. Any suggestions one that will get me an wet Emperor meets Voltaire tone. I'd also like chorus settings. Hope for a little more advice and a nice day to all.
#13
hell yea, i called it on the emperor...
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
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Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#14
Despite the controversies, I admire Ishahn. What equipment would get me a wet yet gothic Emperor\Ishahn meets Voltaire sound. Are there any chorus settings or cheap pedals that will get me close or any inexpensive amps you'd recommend. I know tone comes primarily from the fingers and Voltaire uses D Tuning, but equipment can get me somewhat closer. Please help and sorry for seeming needy or having a vague description.
#15
Quote by RonaldPoe
Despite the controversies, I admire Ishahn. What equipment would get me a wet yet gothic Emperor\Ishahn meets Voltaire sound. Are there any chorus settings or cheap pedals that will get me close or any inexpensive amps you'd recommend. I know tone comes primarily from the fingers and Voltaire uses D Tuning, but equipment can get me somewhat closer. Please help and sorry for seeming needy or having a vague description.



Ha nah dont worry about that, sure playing well is important but the right gear will go a hell of a lot further to getting you the tone you are after.

You said "please don't laugh" or something when talking about your guitar but YOUR GUITAR IS FINE. You should have said it about your amps what you really need is a new amp my friend follow the suggestions of the guys above, personally i reckon that SS ampeg seems to be the kind of thing you are after. Sort that out first.
#16
I got a few suggestions for the SS (I assume it means "Solid State") Ampeg but aren't those kind of amps known for a lovely clean tone? What's Gothic and Watery about a nice clean tone? Do you know any EQs for it. I also think the Fender Rumble is a nice bass amp (I also enjoy playing bass guitar) but needs assistance for my guitar (which is what I use my MG for but that's not really cutting it). Anyway thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Also for T7E, you're avatar reminds me of a quote from The Simpsons Movie. "Thank you Lord for this bountiful ... PENIS!!!!!"
Last edited by RonaldPoe at Nov 16, 2013,
#17
Quote by RonaldPoe
I got a few suggestions for the SS (I assume it means "Solid State") Ampeg but aren't those kind of amps known for a lovely clean tone? What's Gothic and Watery about a nice clean tone? Do you know any EQs for it. I also think the Fender Rumble is a nice bass amp (I also enjoy playing bass guitar) but needs assistance for my guitar (which is what I use my MG for but that's not really cutting it). Anyway thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Also for T7E, you're avatar reminds me of a quote from The Simpsons Movie. "Thank you Lord for this bountiful ... PENIS!!!!!"


show some example of the tone of what you are seeking, or you are just wasting out time.

one song, maybe twenty seconds of it. tell us where to go when you post the video

http://reverb.com/item/29859-boss-hm-2-heavy-metal-1980s-black?utm_medium=GPLA&utm_source=SEM&gclid=CP7GrIrP6LoCFUVp7Aod900AWw

these are fun. find some youtube of these, these are the best way to get dirt, for a black metal/death metalish whatever.
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Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#18
I'm sorry for not giving an example of the tone, making an offensive joke (Come on have you seen his avatar LOL), and seeming a little whinny. I've already described it as "Emperor/Ishahn meets Voltaire". I still don't get what's "Water and Gothic" about a good clean (which Ampeg is famous for). I'd also like settings for my Chorus Ensemble 5 to help (I love that pedal).

Voltaire is the famous gothic musician who sings "When Your Evil", "Brains" (from "The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy") and "Riding a Black Unicorn" among others. I only included him in the description because I'm a fan, he's got the perfect gothic atmosphere, and a neoclassical tone to his music. Emperor is an infamous Norwegian Black Metal band and Ishahn is their guitarist. Emperor has a "watery and gothic" sound with plenty of aggression.

If you don't know who they are, I'd recommend them (especially Voltaire).
#19
I'm sorry for not giving an example of the tone, making an offensive joke (Come on have you seen his avatar LOL), and seeming a little whinny. I've already described it as "Emperor/Ishahn meets Voltaire". I still don't get what's "Water and Gothic" about a good clean (which Ampeg is famous for). I'd also like settings for my Chorus Ensemble 5 to help (I love that pedal).

Voltaire is the famous gothic musician who sings "When Your Evil", "Brains" (from "The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy") and "Riding a Black Unicorn" among others. I only included him in the description because I'm a fan, he's got the perfect gothic atmosphere, and a neoclassical tone to his music. Emperor is an infamous Norwegian Black Metal band and Ishahn is their guitarist. [B]Emperor has a "watery and gothic" sound with plenty of aggression.

If you don't know who they are, I'd recommend them (especially Voltaire).


Post an example of the perfect emporer song then. watery and gothic is ambiguous as ****

go to youtube
search song
copy URL
post it here

we will report back to you with our reccommendations
#20
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#21
My brain hurts.
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#22
I'm sorry your "brain hurts"? I guess it was too abrasive. Anyway I'd like some settings or something. At least tell me what's Gothic, Aggressive, and Watery about a good clean (I'm a metalhead myself).
#23
Nobody can tell you because nobody knows what you mean when you use those words!
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#24
If I may take a stab at what I think you mean - Ampeg VH140C and a flanger.

I don't know if that's the Ampeg you were talking about earlier, but no, just no, it isn't known for its cleans. The 140C, that is. It's known for its use in death metal.


PS, the Crate GX130C is the same amp and can often be had far cheaper because they have the wrong badge.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Nov 17, 2013,
#25
Quote by RonaldPoe
I'm sorry your "brain hurts"? I guess it was too abrasive. Anyway I'd like some settings or something. At least tell me what's Gothic, Aggressive, and Watery about a good clean (I'm a metalhead myself).


1st, dont be so insecure about your taste in music. Plenty of metalheads here.

2nd, nobody really knows what you mean. And I dont understand whats so "watery" about Emperor. I think its just typical black metal sound, a lot of treble and not a lot of bass, midrange varies and a metric shitton of gain. And poor production on top. But really, what makes black metal what it is a lot of comes from the playing, not equipment and settings.

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Last edited by MaaZeus at Nov 17, 2013,
#26
Quote by RonaldPoe
...[ ]....Could someone give more advice or maybe settings for my Fender Rumble and/or Boss CE-5 that would help.
Are you really asking someone to tell you where to set the knobs on an amp that's right in front of you, to obtain a sound that only you have an idea what it is?

Buy a damned Vypyr I! That doubles as a bass amp, an acoustic amp, and has enough f****** knobs that you can search for "watery and Gothic", until well past the middle of next summer.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Nov 17, 2013,
#27
Quote by Captaincranky
Are you really asking someone to tell you where to set the knobs on an amp that's right in front of you, to obtain a sound that only you have an idea what it is?

Buy a damned Vypyr I! That doubles as a bass amp, an acoustic amp, and has enough f****** knobs that you can search for "watery and Gothic", until well past the middle of next summer.



Now that you said it I am surprised it took this long for someone to recommend buying a new amp.

There is only so much a tiny ass Marshall MG fizz box can do. Sell it and buy a Peavey Vypyr. Good amp models built in and a lot of effects to experiment with.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
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Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
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#29
TS, I don't think you need chorus for the tones you are after (if they are black metal distortion tones). And I don't see how a black metal tone would be "watery". As other people said, "watery" reminds me of "Come As You Are" by Nirvana (the clean tone with chorus), not a black metal distortion sound. You don't need a chorus but people were just suggesting it because they didn't know what you meant.

And dude, every comment you post says the same. We didn't know if you were talking about distortion or clean, we didn't know what genre you were talking about. And it's still not 100% clear which tone you are looking for. Post a video example.

"At least tell me what's Gothic, Aggressive, and Watery about a good clean."

1) You didn't mention "aggressive" in your first post.

2) As I said, "watery" sounds like clean tone with chorus to me (and other people too) - for example "Come As You Are" by Nirvana. And "gothic" could just be a dark clean tone. I'm not really familiar with black metal distortion tone but I would describe it more as "dry" than "watery".
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#30
I'm sorry for being insecure about my taste (I'm one of those metalheads who appreciates good music of all kinds, from MJ to Art Tatum to Metallica), vague about my desired tone, and saying the same thing. I guess I assumed that a black metal tone would be watery from a comment and mixed it with Voltaire's atmosphere. I'm just really sorry.

Anyway should I get the Peavy Vypyr (would it be too close to a multi-effect pedal which is something I don't like) or an Ampeg? Any playing tips to help build a good dark/Gothic Black Metal atmosphere? By the way, thanks for the help (seriously).
Last edited by RonaldPoe at Nov 17, 2013,
#31
sell your gear, get a better amp.

Go to a music store and try out some various amps/pedals and see what you like. $80 will not get the tones you want.
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#32
I'm asking which of the two is "the better amp"? I mean there's plenty of amps (many under $60) at a local pawnshop so I don't have to worry about budget, I'm sure I don't have to worry about price. Like I said I'd like a Voltaire meets Emperor (really gothic)tone out of my amp and would like a suggestion for a better one. I dislike multi-effect pedals so I'm not sure if I'd like the Peavy Vypyr.
#33
Quote by RonaldPoe
I'm sorry for being insecure about my taste (I'm one of those metalheads who appreciates good music of all kinds, from MJ to Art Tatum to Metallica), vague about my desired tone, and saying the same thing. I guess I assumed that a black metal tone would be watery from a comment and mixed it with Voltaire's atmosphere. I'm just really sorry.

Anyway should I get the Peavy Vypr or an Ampeg? Any playing tips to help build a good dark Black Metal atmosphere? By the way, thanks for the help (seriously).



Dont worry about it. There are black metal heads around. Me, Kailm and some others.


Ampeg VH140C is a (discontinued) solid state head and is capable of great metal tones. Classic Death Metal amp. However it is just an amp without bells and whistles. If you need effects, you need pedals. And obviously being a head you also need a cab to go with it.

Peavey Vypyr in the other hand is modeling amp. It mimics several different tube amps, including metal monster Peavey 6505. Not as good as the originals of course but it is recognisable and it is cheap. And it also comes with tons of built in effects which you can experiment with. I say its one of the better bedroom amps around simply because of its versatility and it sounds good. Go for atleast Vypyr 30, dont bother with the small 15.

However the budget is going to be a problem.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#34
confusing thread for sure. is your Squier an SSS or HSS (pickups) if it's SSS then you'll have a really uphill battle getting the metal tones you want (I'm a huge SSS fan, single coils if you don't know and do use them for metal but not that kind as it realy doesn't work well) being a Hendrix fan I think phaser when I think watery as that is what he meant.
#35
The VH140c is the combo version, note the c in the name
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Morley Bad Horsie 2
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#37
Quote by MaaZeus
Im pretty sure the head also has a C letter.

Yeah it does, for some reason I thought it was just the VH140
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#38
If it helps I don't want a combo, it's too weight-heavy, expensive, and loud (I don't want to get complaints from the neighbors). Also Emperor and Ishahn are really the only Black Metal I listen to (they sound good). Do you know any non-combo amps that would help?
Last edited by RonaldPoe at Nov 17, 2013,
#39
Quote by RonaldPoe
If it helps I don't want a combo, it's too weight-heavy, expensive, and loud (I don't want to get complaints from the neighbors). Do you know any non-combo amps that would help?



There is no difference between combo and head as far as volume goes. Its entirely amp and speaker dependant. There is a volume knob, use it. If the amp has global master volume, its easier to adjust. And Vypyr has a headphone output.

The weight thing is why I like halfstacks too. You can carry the amp and speakers separately. I am not sure if there is a head version of a solid state Vypyr though.

*edit* There is.
http://www.amazon.com/Peavey-Vypyr-30-Guitar-Amplifier/dp/B004B1FK68

But you still need a cab unless you always use headphones.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
Last edited by MaaZeus at Nov 17, 2013,
#40
It's cool, I'd prefer a 15-30 watt solid state anyway. So what would you suggest for what I want?
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