#1
Hi folks. I'm looking into buying the electro harmonix micro pog, mainly for the sub-octave feature. I'm just after a bit of info from anyone who's actually used or owned this pedal.

I would be running this into my effects chain at the end, going into a bass amp. The dry output would be going into my reverb then an electric guitar amp.

What i'm wondering, is, would this actually work? Many octave pedals sound glitchy when you're playing more than one note at a time but demos and reviews suggest this copes very well with this issue.

I play in a two piece band, and i suppose, in actual fact, it's not really a case of replicating bass guitar, just creating more of a dynamic sound. I usually run my guitar through both a bass & electric guitar amp, and this seems to work very well for that thick, yet even sound but of course, if the bass amp was an entire octave lower, it could be incredibly useful. At the moment it's really just a low end booster for the guitar amp.

This pedal is a bit pricey, and although i could probably make very good use of it, if it doesn't do what i intend for it to do, but, i am a student, and a consistently skint (broke) one at that, so money is precious.

Be great if you could help. Thanks for reading
#2
I use a Micro Pog in that same context, it tracks quite well. Probably doesn't sound exactly like a real bass but it does fill in that low end gap nicely, especially when you run it into an actual bass amp.
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#3
It's not going to replace a bassist, but if your live sound is seriously lacking bass frequencies and you cannot find a bassist, then shoot for it.
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#4
Can't find a bassist? Hey what now? Failed guitarists are a dime a dozen.
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#5
It's not going to sound like a bass or fill the same space, unless maybe you strung really thick strings and played through a bass amp... but at that point, you should probably just get a bass.
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#6
Quote by Ferrets!
It's not going to sound like a bass or fill the same space, unless maybe you strung really thick strings and played through a bass amp... but at that point, you should probably just get a bass.


+1

You wouldn't have the dynamics... it'd sound just like what it is... a guitar with booming bass funk. Depending on what you're intending to achieve, it could very well do what you want it to do.

However, I wouldn't fire the bassist just yet.
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#7
While agreeing to all above comments.

One thing is overlooked, you can only input one at a time.


The thickness of a band is cause by micro differences in timing.

It's the same with how guitars have been recorded on most records. Recording one guitar, then duplicating it and push it to the side does not change anything.

Record the same part twice, and then pan them separately, makes all the difference.

You need this micro separation to get what most people feel as "Full".

A "Reverse" experiment is this. I can play through a vst, set the octave lower on a virtual pedal and play bass part under my guitar part, and it sounds pretty convincing as a bass part.

I can use the same pedal, but alow the orginal signal, to get both signals at the same time, play the same riff, and it will sound like an octaver, and not a bass doubling it. Yet everything is the same, settings, riff, only difference is different playing inputs.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Nov 15, 2013,
#8
pitch is different than timbre.

you will not have the same timbre as a bass from a guitar dare i say never.
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#9
Quote by xxdarrenxx
While agreeing to all above comments.

One thing is overlooked, you can only input one at a time.

The thickness of a band is cause by micro differences in timing.

It's the same with how guitars have been recorded on most records. Recording one guitar, then duplicating it and push it to the side does not change anything.

Record the same part twice, and then pan them separately, makes all the difference.

You need this micro separation to get what most people feel as "Full".

A "Reverse" experiment is this. I can play through a vst, set the octave lower on a virtual pedal and play bass part under my guitar part, and it sounds pretty convincing as a bass part.

I can use the same pedal, but alow the orginal signal, to get both signals at the same time, play the same riff, and it will sound like an octaver, and not a bass doubling it. Yet everything is the same, settings, riff, only difference is different playing inputs.

This is absolutely true.

Quote by trashedlostfdup
pitch is different than timbre.

you will not have the same timbre as a bass from a guitar dare i say never.

But every bass has a different timbre. In my experimentations with pitch shifters, I found that setting it to an octave down on a guitar sounds more like short-scale basses. There's more thump than punch to the sound.

The POG also sounds pretty artificial for bass tones.
Last edited by JELIFISH19 at Nov 16, 2013,
#10
If you don't need to replicate bass guitar tone and just need bass frequencies, I think it could work. But it wouldn't sound like a bass guitar. But so what? IMO a band doesn't need a bass guitar. It just needs bass frequencies. For example The Doors didn't have a bassist, their keyboardist just played bass on his Fender Rhodes bass keyboard.

You could also try a guitar synth or something that could use different sounds for different strings and for example use bass sound for only your lowest string and guitar sound for the other five strings. Or you could buy a bass pedal synth. Or then your drummer could have a drum pad that would have bass sounds in it, like this:



But in all cases you would need to learn a new playing style.
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#11
You could always get an 8 string and tune it EAEADGBe. That's what I've been doing with mine. I either loop or do two handed tapping. Good results. haha
#12
Quote by MaggaraMarine
If you don't need to replicate bass guitar tone and just need bass frequencies, I think it could work. But it wouldn't sound like a bass guitar. But so what? IMO a band doesn't need a bass guitar. It just needs bass frequencies. For example The Doors didn't have a bassist, their keyboardist just played bass on his Fender Rhodes bass keyboard.


Good point -- you don't need a bass guitar. I've played bass for a band using the pedals on a B3 (most folks don't even know they have them <G>, and I've played it using a Benson Bass (more pedals, but not part of the keyboards). And, of course, you can divide a keyboard and play bass on an octave or two with your left hand while playing other things on the rest of the keyboard with your right. And with most synths, you CAN sound exactly like a bass guitar if you wish.

Here's another option. I have three Variax guitars. On any of the guitar versions, you can use alternate tunings (via pitch replacement) to tune individual strings wherever you want them without changing the tension on the strings. I've tuned the bottom two (E&A) strings down an octave, played bass with my thumb and the other four strings fingerstyle, and it's worked really well. You develop techniques that work with this setup and it eventually becomes seamless.

Charlie Hunter is famous for this technique and for the multi-string guitars that have come out of it, built by Novax. His 8-string guitar is multi-scale (fan fret) with the bottom three strings set up for bass, complete with real bass tuners, bass strings and bass pickups:

#13
Look into the Boss octavers. Theyre cheaper but should track as fine, though the micro POG Tracks great and can help give you a bunch of sounds, like an organ if you put some modulation and reverb after it.

But for just octave down sounds, the boss oc-2 is good, and i hear Mooer do a decent ctaver for the price too.
#14
Thanks for all the info guys. Really helpful.

Quote by maXterbat0r
Look into the Boss octavers. Theyre cheaper but should track as fine, though the micro POG Tracks great and can help give you a bunch of sounds, like an organ if you put some modulation and reverb after it.

But for just octave down sounds, the boss oc-2 is good, and i hear Mooer do a decent ctaver for the price too.


Are the boss octavers as good though? I was looking into buying a boss oc3 but was put off a few reviews did say the tracking wasn't perfect. That's the main reason i'm interested in the pog. The ability to play chords without getting that glitchy effect.
#15
Quote by Pregowski92
Are the boss octavers as good though? I was looking into buying a boss oc3 but was put off a few reviews did say the tracking wasn't perfect. That's the main reason i'm interested in the pog. The ability to play chords without getting that glitchy effect.


The Boss ones aren't polyphonic, if you play chords then they won't do. The Pog tracks chords.
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#17
I play an 8 string guitar due to this. Thanks to some flamenco techniques I know I manage to make it sound like a guitar and bass playing two different lines at times. With that said however, the way the low frequencies sound in a bass is a lot warmer than the sound on the guitar.
#18
I actually used my POG2 to play bass on a song. Our singer is a sound engineering major and had to record a song, turns out our bass player couldn't make it, and we didn't bring any bass equipment, so I recorded the bass part with the POG2 and some lower octave and the dry guitar signal lowered. It actually didn't sound bad at all on the playback, definitely passable in my book and filled out all the low end in the song.

This was on a Les Paul style guitar strung with 12's, so not the thickest string, but decent size.
Last edited by chip46 at Nov 22, 2013,
#20
Offcourse you don't need bass guitar.

You need bass frequencies, but the difference lies in whether it's a separate part.

Playing bass lower on the organ while comping with the other hand, still means 2 different voices or input if you would.

I think classical counterpoint partially nailed this anyway. For any of you who have basic understanding of it..

No parallel octaves. Why because it doesn't give a sense of movement.

What does an octaver do?..

..parallel octaves, which with it on guitar being even only 1 voice is an understatement.

It gives a cool sound, but after a little while and for some probably immediately the audiences ears will be adjusted to where they just hear it as a cool guitar sound, but the groove wouldn't be there.

It does work for the guitarist/singer of The white stripes, but he plays a modern form of traditional blues, which originally was played with just a guitar and vocals anyway (Delta), and has been accepted as a concept decades ago.

The only time it's used is for the sound, musically it does as good as nothing.

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#21
I disagree. You need a bass guitarist. You need somebody to help you lift the heavy shit and the drummer's too busy setting up his kit.
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#22
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Offcourse you don't need bass guitar.

You need bass frequencies, but the difference lies in whether it's a separate part.

Playing bass lower on the organ while comping with the other hand, still means 2 different voices or input if you would.

I think classical counterpoint partially nailed this anyway. For any of you who have basic understanding of it..

No parallel octaves. Why because it doesn't give a sense of movement.

What does an octaver do?..

..parallel octaves, which with it on guitar being even only 1 voice is an understatement.

It gives a cool sound, but after a little while and for some probably immediately the audiences ears will be adjusted to where they just hear it as a cool guitar sound, but the groove wouldn't be there.

It does work for the guitarist/singer of The white stripes, but he plays a modern form of traditional blues, which originally was played with just a guitar and vocals anyway (Delta), and has been accepted as a concept decades ago.

The only time it's used is for the sound, musically it does as good as nothing.

I see nothing wrong with parallel octaves (or fifths - these "rules" don't really apply to popular music) - that's what many bands do when they play the riff in unison. Bass just doubles the guitar riff. But I agree that if two different instruments play the same part (one octave higher and one octave lower) and one instrument with octave pedal plays the part, it doesn't sound as big with just one instrument. It's the tiny differences in rhythm and tuning that make it sound big (actually that's what chorus pedal does - it adds a detuned delayed signal to your dry sound).

Also, sometimes you don't want the bass to play the same as guitar all the time. That's why some kind of synth could work (drum pad or pedal synth). Or then you could play the bassline on your lower strings and the guitar line on your higher strings (though that requires some technique) - and maybe also pitch shift the lower strings. And for that you would need a guitar synth or something like that.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Nov 23, 2013,