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#1
Is it a growing problem?

Report claims it might be.

EU report on Jewish perception of antisemitism

So Europeans, what do you think? Is this true where you're from? Is it just perception?

The report is obviously preliminary, and should be taken with a grain of salt as it is self-reported, but the percent of people reporting instances of verbal abuse etc, are pretty high, and do seem to follow certain patterns in different parts of the continent.

In many Western European countries the respondents felt that they were being held responsible for Israel's policy's. I find that an odd thing for people to nit-pick about specifically in European countries. Eastern European countries seemed to have some deeper political troubles and were the only countries reporting high instances of discrimination from right-wing groups. France was unique in having a high amount of threats and violence, apparently from young male Muslim immigrants.

Some highlights

Overall, almost three quarters of respondents (73*%)
perceive that antisemitism online has increased over
the last five*years
pg. 20


The victims of antisemitic incidents which took place in the 12*months preceding the survey were younger than the average respondent, survey results showed. The victimisation rate is highest among the youngest respondents and lowest among the oldest respondents: one third (34*%) of the youngest respondents (16–29*years old) said that they had been a*victim of an antisemitic incident in the 12 months before the survey.

Every second victim of a*antisemitic incident (49*%) said he or she avoids certain places or locations in the local area or neighbourhood, while only one in five of those who have not experienced antisemitic incidents said the same (Figure*11).

pg. 31



“A large part of antisemitism today in Sweden, among Swedish people, seems to have to do with Israel’s politics. I would like to wear a Star of David as jewellery, but I am afraid that I would be targeted and have to answer for Israel’s politics.”
(Woman, 35–39*years old, Sweden)

pg. 37
#3
Using online abuse as a measure of actual abuse against ethnic groups/minorities is a bit silly.

I have a good friend who's Jewish and to my knowledge he's never received any aggro for being so. Obviously anecdotes aren't particularly relevant, but it's all I have.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#4
Hasn't there been anti-Semitism throughout the world for the last 6000-7000 years?
#5
The Jews did this.

I really couldn't have any valuable input on this situation.
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#6
In the UK I have noticed no anti-semitism at all (at least among the sources I hear from).

Using "jew" as an insult became sort of popular following Borat and South Park, but that's fading away and I don't think anyone really used it to refer actual Jews.
#7
It is my loss to say that I've never had a Jewish acquantaince even, so I have no idea what anti-semitism is like nowadays. I need to run in to more Jews
#8
TL;DR.

With that being said, I wouldn't really call it antisemitism because it's nowhere near that extreme but you can certainly feel that a lot of people don't really have the most positive view on a specific group of them. *cough* Israel *cough*

I am one of those people and I claim my view legitimate. However I think the vast majority of us couldn't give two shits about what ethnicity they are, we just have a problem with their USA-backed stirring of fecal matter.

Also, as far as encountering Jews in my country or while traveling goes, I'd say people don't even notice them and don't care at all. I've yet to see any actual act of hatred towards them.

I personally notice them because they look cool with those beards and hats. I could do without the sideburns but they don't really affect the badassery.

Oh, just remembered, it's story time. Not really.

I had the 'pleasure' of being the cashier while a group of people from Israel while working at a highway restaurant/shop close by. I don't really recall how many of them were Jewish but what I do remember is that they were the cheapest group I've ever seen in my life. I swear at least half (= 10 or so) of them demanded that I tell them the price of the product they were buying, even though it was always clearly visible, and after being informed they either made a face filled with shock and said they refuse to pay that much or made it very clear with their reaction that though they'll buy it they feel like they're being ripped off.

And we're not talking some exotic ultra-expensive products here. We're talking gum, candy, chocolate, etc. Also, notice where I live - our standard of living is probably cheaper than 70% of Europe.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
Last edited by JamSessionFreak at Nov 19, 2013,
#9
Quote by JamSessionFreak
TL;DR.

With that being said, I wouldn't really call it antisemitism because it's nowhere near that extreme but you can certainly feel that a lot of people don't really have the most positive view on a specific group of them. *cough* Israel *cough*
I don't know how you can specify what "it" is and how "it" isn't antisemitism if you can't be bothered to read at least a little bit. The examples of vandalism and such were specific in mentioning defacement of obviously Jewish property/objects or use of Nazi symbolism etc.

I'm curious as to why Europeans care so much about Israel? I'm not a supporter of a lot of what goes on there, but there are plenty of other countries with pretty nasty problems that equally rival those in the Gaza strip.
#11
Overall, almost three quarters of respondents (73*%) perceive that antisemitism online has increased over the last five*years


Yea, but so has every other form of discrimination
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#13
Quote by seanlang01
I don't know how you can specify what "it" is and how "it" isn't antisemitism if you can't be bothered to read at least a little bit. The examples of vandalism and such were specific in mentioning defacement of obviously Jewish property/objects or use of Nazi symbolism etc.



Antisemitism = Discrimination against or prejudice or hostility toward Jews.

Who'd have thunk it, right?

I'd say that disliking the political actions of a group that happens to consist mostly of one ethnic group, regardless of which group this is isn't really the same as the pretty words above and I think that you shouldn't have any problem with my though process as well.

EDIT: Group. Group. Group. Group. Group.
Quote by seanlang01
I'm curious as to why Europeans care so much about Israel?.

If you don't understand now then I really don't see how I can make you understand.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
Last edited by JamSessionFreak at Nov 19, 2013,
#14
Quote by seanlang01
I don't know how you can specify what "it" is and how "it" isn't antisemitism if you can't be bothered to read at least a little bit. The examples of vandalism and such were specific in mentioning defacement of obviously Jewish property/objects or use of Nazi symbolism etc.

I'm curious as to why Europeans care so much about Israel? I'm not a supporter of a lot of what goes on there, but there are plenty of other countries with pretty nasty problems that equally rival those in the Gaza strip.


Because the Israel/Palenstine question is the most important question in modern geopolitics (other than climate change and the impending energy crisis).
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#15
Quote by seanlang01
I don't know how you can specify what "it" is and how "it" isn't antisemitism if you can't be bothered to read at least a little bit. The examples of vandalism and such were specific in mentioning defacement of obviously Jewish property/objects or use of Nazi symbolism etc.

I'm curious as to why Europeans care so much about Israel? I'm not a supporter of a lot of what goes on there, but there are plenty of other countries with pretty nasty problems that equally rival those in the Gaza strip.


I can tell you what Germans think about Israel, but won't say in public.

Basically, Germans are taught very well what happened in the Holocaust, everyone agrees it was horrible and Nazis were bad and it was a very dark period in history.

Now Germany pays Israel a lot of money for what happened in WWII and that's fine. However, Israel uses that money for their army and attacking Palestinians. So, Israel is using money, which is given to them because of the murder of Jews in the past, for them to to kill Palestinians in the present.

It sucks. It feels like their blood is in our hands as well.

But Jews themselves, nobody really gives a damn. Germans will rather moan about Turks.
#17
I only know one Jewish family but they're the nicest people I've ever met.

Dem Jews are a-ok in my book.

#PhilsStampOfApproval
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
#18
Quote by Philip_pepper
I can tell you what Germans think about Israel, but won't say in public.

Basically, Germans are taught very well what happened in the Holocaust, everyone agrees it was horrible and Nazis were bad and it was a very dark period in history.

Now Germany pays Israel a lot of money for what happened in WWII and that's fine. However, Israel uses that money for their army and attacking Palestinians. So, Israel is using money, which is given to them because of the murder of Jews in the past, for them to to kill Palestinians in the present.
This is good and the type of answer I was looking for. I don't live in Germany and don't know enough about that country's government to have known they paid Israel. I suspected a few countries in Europe may have, so this is good to know.


Because the Israel/Palenstine question is the most important question in modern geopolitics
Is it? I'm curious as to why people think that.

And I want an answer that's less vague and intentionally lazy than this.
If you don't understand now then I really don't see how I can make you understand.
#19
Quote by seanlang01
And I want an answer that's less vague and intentionally lazy than this.

You got my opinion. If you think I now care whether you like it or understand, you don't understand this place at all.

But if you really want to know, feel free to make another thread.

Is it? I'm curious as to why people think that.

Pretty sure it was sarcasm.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#20
It's not like this is a mystery. I learned about the rise of anti-semitism in Europe in a few different college courses.
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#21
Quote by seanlang01
This is good and the type of answer I was looking for. I don't live in Germany and don't know enough about that country's government to have known they paid Israel. I suspected a few countries in Europe may have, so this is good to know.


I think it's just Germany that pays them. Not sure if other countries do. Britain, for example, I think pays Pakistan or Indian quite large sums for their colonization past. But again, I don't know much about it, although it seems to be on the same vein as Germany and Israel, although Pakistan or India are probably using that money for things such as infrastructure, or at least, not for wars.

Germans and German politicians aren't allowed to say anything negative about Israel BECAUSE of WWII. Muttering anything badly would cause people to start calling Germans nazis, and that's the last thing anyone in Germany wants.

France and Britain, for example, can afford to be more blunt. I saw some of moderate importance woman on the BBC saying how Britain putting the Jews in Israel after World War II was a huge mistake and an experimental error that the world will suffer for decades to come. I was quite shocked how honest she was. If a German said that on TV we'd never hear the end of it.
#22
Quote by JamSessionFreak

I had the 'pleasure' of being the cashier while a group of people from Israel while working at a highway restaurant/shop close by. I don't really recall how many of them were Jewish but what I do remember is that they were the cheapest group I've ever seen in my life. I swear at least half (= 10 or so) of them demanded that I tell them the price of the product they were buying, even though it was always clearly visible, and after being informed they either made a face filled with shock and said they refuse to pay that much or made it very clear with their reaction that though they'll buy it they feel like they're being ripped off.

And we're not talking some exotic ultra-expensive products here. We're talking gum, candy, chocolate, etc. Also, notice where I live - our standard of living is probably cheaper than 70% of Europe.
Yeah, that's pretty much the type of answer I expected after your hostility towards simply clarifying your opinion.
#23
Quote by Philip_pepper

France and Britain, for example, can afford to be more blunt. I saw some of moderate importance woman on the BBC saying how Britain putting the Jews in Israel after World War II was a huge mistake and an experimental error that the world will suffer for decades to come. I was quite shocked how honest she was. If a German said that on TV we'd never hear the end of it.
Interesting. Its my opinion that hate speech laws probably do more to encourage resentment against minorities than they do to foster a "nicer" environment.
#24
Quote by seanlang01
Yeah, that's pretty much the type of answer I expected after your hostility towards simply clarifying your opinion.


Somewhat duly noted.

Quote by seanlang01
Interesting. Its my opinion that hate speech laws probably do more to encourage resentment against minorities than they do to foster a "nicer" environment.

We actually agree on something there but the Germans have a way of making everything work. I don't now how but they're beast at most stuff. Wouldn't be surprised if they've managed to iron this out as well.

Well I can see how but I don't really want to believe it since we happen to fail miserably at the same things.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
Last edited by JamSessionFreak at Nov 19, 2013,
#25
Quote by Todd Hart
Because the Israel/Palenstine question is the most important question in modern geopolitics (other than climate change and the impending energy crisis).


no it's not.


Honestly, the whole Israel situation is a shitshow. Imagine being a country quite literally surrounded by people who not only dislike you, but want you wiped off the ****ing map. They're being supplied with weapons by China, Russia, and Arab countries that don't happen to be right there. So the only thing that Israel sees as protecting them is themselves and their strength. So they overcompensate and act more aggressive than they should. That doesn't excuse some of the atrocities they've committed, like their documented use of white phosphorus.

However, I would say that much of their more "extreme" actions were brought on by the extreme aggression of the other side. Sure, plenty of Palestinians are peaceful, innocent individuals. But the response of the Arabs since Israel's "incorporation" has shown their strong desire to destroy them.

IMO, apart from Israel's more flagrant violations of human rights, the whole situation is a straight-up war, with innocent people caught in the middle. The Arabs have been aggressive about their desire for genocide over the past 60 years (it's only more recently that they pretend to be diplomatic), and the Israelis are more interested in ensuring the safety and security of their people than they are with diplomacy. I can't really blame them for that (again, apart from the more flagrant violations).

tl;dr whole thing is a shitshow, Israel is a bastard, but for good reason (but often takes it way too far), and the people behind other side are only now just pretending they don't want to annihilate each and every one of the Israelis while the innocent Palestinians are just caught in the middle.
#26
Quote by progdude93
so they overcompensate and act more aggressive than they should.

Another thing I'm baffled by is how effectively they've done this. The summary of all the Arab-Israeli conflicts in the 20th century is basically:

'Arabs decide to try and take some land and attack Israel. Israel notices puny army scratching at its feet and decides to do something about it. A short time later the Arabs look like a dog that's been thrown into a fire pit and Israel has more territory than ever before.'

Lather, rinse, repeat half a dozen times. I may have my problems with their actions but god damn they can defend themselves.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
Last edited by JamSessionFreak at Nov 19, 2013,
#27
Quote by JamSessionFreak
Another thing I'm baffled by is how effectively they've done this. The summary of all the Arab-Israeli conflicts in the 20th century is basically:

'Arabs decide to try to take some land and attack Israel. Israel notices puny army scratching at its feet and decides to do something about it. A short time later the Arabs look like a dog that's been thrown into a fire pit and Israel has more territory than ever before.'

Lather, rinse, repeat half a dozen times.


This is dangerously inaccurate. When Israel was first formed, Egypt had one of the strongest air forces in the world, and Israel's was puny. Israel was repeatedly attacked by Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, etc.

I actually learned about some of the tactics the Israelis used in one of my classes, and they were ****ing brilliant. Like dropping bottle of carbonated water out of their planes because they didn't have any bombers but needed to pretend they were stronger than they were.

In fact, the way it all started out was that Israel was recognized by America and Russia, and they were then attacked. Israel gained the most land from being attacked (look up the 6 Day War).
#28
whoa are you guys telling me that a bunch of non-jews haven't experienced any antisemitism?
*-)
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i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#29
Quote by progdude93
no it's not.

Honestly, the whole Israel situation is a shitshow. Imagine being a country quite literally surrounded by people who not only dislike you, but want you wiped off the ****ing map. They're being supplied with weapons by China, Russia, and Arab countries that don't happen to be right there. So the only thing that Israel sees as protecting them is themselves and their strength. So they overcompensate and act more aggressive than they should. That doesn't excuse some of the atrocities they've committed, like their documented use of white phosphorus.

However, I would say that much of their more "extreme" actions were brought on by the extreme aggression of the other side. Sure, plenty of Palestinians are peaceful, innocent individuals. But the response of the Arabs since Israel's "incorporation" has shown their strong desire to destroy them.

IMO, apart from Israel's more flagrant violations of human rights, the whole situation is a straight-up war, with innocent people caught in the middle. The Arabs have been aggressive about their desire for genocide over the past 60 years (it's only more recently that they pretend to be diplomatic), and the Israelis are more interested in ensuring the safety and security of their people than they are with diplomacy. I can't really blame them for that (again, apart from the more flagrant violations).

tl;dr whole thing is a shitshow, Israel is a bastard, but for good reason (but often takes it way too far), and the people behind other side are only now just pretending they don't want to annihilate each and every one of the Israelis while the innocent Palestinians are just caught in the middle.


It is, simply because of exactly what you said in your first paragraph. Israel/Palestine or Israel/the Muslim middle east is effectively a proxy cold war between the superpowers. If the dispute in I/P becomes truly aggressive, and all that would take is for a few extremists to turn certain religious monuments into dust, then it will be a ****ing tense day in New York.

Perhaps the only comparable stalemate with regards to world affairs is North Korea/South Korea.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#30
Quote by progdude93
This is dangerously inaccurate. When Israel was first formed, Egypt had one of the strongest air forces in the world, and Israel's was puny. Israel was repeatedly attacked by Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, etc.

I actually learned about some of the tactics the Israelis used in one of my classes, and they were ****ing brilliant. Like dropping bottle of carbonated water out of their planes because they didn't have any bombers but needed to pretend they were stronger than they were.

In fact, the way it all started out was that Israel was recognized by America and Russia, and they were then attacked. Israel gained the most land from being attacked (look up the 6 Day War).

I didn't mean the armies were actually puny, I just imagined that was their response seeing how they obliterated them. I'll admit that I did a terrible job at properly communicating that, my bad.

I don't see what I missed with the rest though. The entire point of my comment was basically 'Don't attack Israel because they will proceed to make you pay for your mistakes'.

The conflict that is most intriguing to me has to be the one when they were attacked on a national holiday. Can't remember for the life of my which on that was or most of the details but what I can recall from my history class is basically that Israel was caught completely off guard and still managed to push back the attackers so far back they massively increased the amount of territory they held.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
Last edited by JamSessionFreak at Nov 19, 2013,
#31
Quote by JamSessionFreak
I didn't mean the armies were actually puny, I just imagined that was their response seeing how they obliterated them. I'll admit that I did a terrible job at properly communicating that, my bad.

I don't see what I missed with the rest though. The entire point of my comment was basically 'Don't attack Israel because they will proceed to make you pay for your mistakes'.


When Israel first began, its armies were immensely puny, and their opponents' were not. And they were repeatedly attacked. You were wrong because you said "scratching at its feet," as though the enemies of the Israelis were not far more formidable and terrifying than they were. You're representing the Arabs as the underdog, but when this whole shit began, Israel was DEFINITELY the underdog.

edit: ^you're thinking of the Yom Kippur War. Where they were attacked during their most holy holiday and their enemies violated the ceasefire to attack them.
Last edited by progdude93 at Nov 19, 2013,
#32
Quote by progdude93
When Israel first began, its armies were immensely puny, and their opponents' were not. And they were repeatedly attacked. You were wrong because you said "scratching at its feet," as though the enemies of the Israelis were not far more formidable and terrifying than they were. You're representing the Arabs as the underdog, but when this whole shit began, Israel was DEFINITELY the underdog.

edit: ^you're thinking of the Yom Kippur War.

Okay, I just reread it and realised how badly I actually typed it out. My bad. Again.

For the record, I was trying to describe it the way you did, though much more vaguely.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#33
Read Varg Vikerness's blog if you want be to enlightened about Jews.
#34
Phillip, last time I looked you were studying optometry in Glasgow, right?
You haven't recently transferred to study Law in Edinburgh?
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#35
Quote by Hydra150
Phillip, last time I looked you were studying optometry in Glasgow, right?
You haven't recently transferred to study Law in Edinburgh?

shit.

I totally blackfaced on Halloween though.
#37
Maybe they should stop being responsible for everything generally bad!
"If God exists, there's no way he is French" - Andrea Pirlo

S A D B O Y S
#38
lol, the contrast between how the European UGers talk about antisemitism in Europe and how the American/European UGers talk about racism in America is hilarious
My God, it's full of stars!
#39
I found Europe to be far more racially volatile than America, but we'll just make that our little secret.
#40
I never understood how so many people could lose all empathy for entire groups of fellow humans. What a strange perspective that would be.
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