#1
I am basically interested in something like UG, except providing the melodic line for the lyrics in songs. UG gives the chord progressions and/or guitar or other instrumental parts. Sometimes those parts may mirror the vocal melody, like in a guitar solo, but not always, and looking at guitar solo tablature is not a particularly good way (IMO) to figure out a vocal melody.

I'm doing some instrumental stuff, and would like to play the melodic lines for some popular songs much the way the vocalists did who made them famous. I also am interested in analyzing the melodic lines of great songs to help my own song-writing.

Is there a site like UG, but for vocalists, that would have lyrical melodies transcribed? Or is there an efficient way to work this out?

Note, I can pick out any given melodic line on guitar, but it's a slow process and, too, I'm a bit worried I may end up working out the right line in the wrong key, which may lead to more trial/error and time.

One of the great things about UG, is that I was able to summarize, on a cheat sheet, the chord progressions for hundreds of great songs, and it did not take much time at all, and I then converted them to "key-less" code (I-ii-iii-IV, etc.), and was better able to see where so many songs employ a lot of the same progressions, or where there is variation like a relative minor instead of its relative major. (I can send anyone my cheat sheet if they're interested.) Anyway, I'd like to try something similar with great melodic lines from popular songs, see what patterns emerge.

For example, I read how when there is a big jump in a melody, the next note is generally moving the other direction, like jumping A to D, then go to C# or C, and I've seen in my own use how this does seem "right" to my ear, in most cases. What other general rules will appear? (Granted, all rules are made to be broken.)

Ken
#2
Quote by krm27


Note, I can pick out any given melodic line on guitar, but it's a slow process and, too, I'm a bit worried I may end up working out the right line in the wrong key, which may lead to more trial/error and time.



I think this why it is important that you try learning things by ear. It's not like the process is going to get faster or that you will get less trial and error by putting it off. If you keep doing it regularly and thoroughly then eventually you will be able to pick up melodies quickly.
Fusion and jazz musician, a fan of most music.

Quote by Guthrie Govan
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"Only play what you hear. If you don't hear anything, don't play anything."
#3
Yeah definitely work on doing it by ear.

Otherwise sheet music is the way to go. I don't know of any sites off the top of my head though sorry. If I think of any I'll post back later.
Si
#4
Hmmm.... I thought that might be the answer.

Of course, the same goes for all the transcription stuff on UG, as relying on any of it is a crutch and we'd all have better ears for music if we sat down and figured all this stuff out ourselves. Yet here is UG.

I'm intrigued by your sig quote re: only playing what you hear. I saw that before, I think in a thread on participating in a jam session. I noodle around on guitar, experimenting and finding what sounds I like and don't, and when something works, sometimes I think it should work raised a third, then fifth, then back, or something, to make a meta-progression. And sometimes I'm playing and I feel like I want something different, and I just let my hands move to a different note or chord. I guess, I'm thinking there might be times when you know, or feel, what you want to play before you "hear" it. Or maybe that's just the perspective I have now because my internal ear is not developed, and I'll think differently when I've been playing longer (?)

Now, I am kind of thinking about a project where I will work out the vocal melodic lines to the songs I've got on my cheat sheet, as a means of developing my ear.

Ken
#5
Quote by krm27
I am basically interested in something like UG, except providing the melodic line for the lyrics in songs. UG gives the chord progressions and/or guitar or other instrumental parts. Sometimes those parts may mirror the vocal melody, like in a guitar solo, but not always, and looking at guitar solo tablature is not a particularly good way (IMO) to figure out a vocal melody.

I'm doing some instrumental stuff, and would like to play the melodic lines for some popular songs much the way the vocalists did who made them famous. I also am interested in analyzing the melodic lines of great songs to help my own song-writing.

Is there a site like UG, but for vocalists, that would have lyrical melodies transcribed? Or is there an efficient way to work this out?

Note, I can pick out any given melodic line on guitar, but it's a slow process and, too, I'm a bit worried I may end up working out the right line in the wrong key, which may lead to more trial/error and time.

One of the great things about UG, is that I was able to summarize, on a cheat sheet, the chord progressions for hundreds of great songs, and it did not take much time at all, and I then converted them to "key-less" code (I-ii-iii-IV, etc.), and was better able to see where so many songs employ a lot of the same progressions, or where there is variation like a relative minor instead of its relative major. (I can send anyone my cheat sheet if they're interested.) Anyway, I'd like to try something similar with great melodic lines from popular songs, see what patterns emerge.

For example, I read how when there is a big jump in a melody, the next note is generally moving the other direction, like jumping A to D, then go to C# or C, and I've seen in my own use how this does seem "right" to my ear, in most cases. What other general rules will appear? (Granted, all rules are made to be broken.)

Ken

OK, why after a big jump up the melody wants to go back down again is because if it went up all the time, you would go over your vocal range.

And there are no rules. Or you shouldn't think them as rules. Same as V-I is not a rule, the dominant chord just likes to resolve to the tonic. But that doesn't mean you couldn't play any other chord after a dominant chord without breaking the rules. Actually many times the V chord is followed by some other chord than the tonic, for example IV or vi or whatever.

Learn the intervals and figuring melodies out gets so much easier. The Roman numerals are used for chords but you could also use them for scale degrees, though I prefer using normal numbers for scale degrees. For example I would write the minor scale like 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7. And now if I hear a melody, I can hear that it uses the minor third. You just need to train your ears. It's no different from figuring out the chord progressions by ear.
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#6
Obviously all the advice above about getting better at working things out by ear is the best advice, but it's probably worth adding that a lot of the Guitar Pro / Tab Pro files have vocal lines tabbed out in them.
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#7
Also worth mentioning that transcribing melody lines is a lot simpler than transcribing most guitar solo stuff. Some work will be required to not get distracted by timbre or the sound of the words themselves, but one of the things I recommend to people who want to work on their ears is to start with melodies.
#8
Vocal lines should be easy, TS. Figuring out harmony is harder. Pick a small section and get good at hitting the pause button.

Can you sing that section back? I don't care short if may be. 2 secs worth even. As long as you can SING if back, that is how you know you have the notes internalised.

Use a slow downer software if you need to. Just don't rely on TAB.
#9
Quote by krm27
Hmmm.... I thought that might be the answer.

Of course, the same goes for all the transcription stuff on UG, as relying on any of it is a crutch and we'd all have better ears for music if we sat down and figured all this stuff out ourselves. Yet here is UG.

I'm intrigued by your sig quote re: only playing what you hear. I saw that before, I think in a thread on participating in a jam session. I noodle around on guitar, experimenting and finding what sounds I like and don't, and when something works, sometimes I think it should work raised a third, then fifth, then back, or something, to make a meta-progression. And sometimes I'm playing and I feel like I want something different, and I just let my hands move to a different note or chord. I guess, I'm thinking there might be times when you know, or feel, what you want to play before you "hear" it. Or maybe that's just the perspective I have now because my internal ear is not developed, and I'll think differently when I've been playing longer (?)

Now, I am kind of thinking about a project where I will work out the vocal melodic lines to the songs I've got on my cheat sheet, as a means of developing my ear.

Ken


As you said, tabs here on UG are like a crutch we all use/used. It's not that i am against tabs, i am against relying on tabs. When you are starting out i think it's fine to learn by tabs, so you can get going. But as you develop you want to get of the habit of learning from tabs and learning by ear instead, cause you get way more use of it then.

All the masters from back in the day learned by ear. If there was a song they wanted to learn they couldn't be like "Sorry guys, the tabs for the is not up on UG yet", they had to actually sit down and work it out by ear.

I think Guthrie Govan put it really well. That if you are relying on tablature you are basically playing the way a parrot talks, you can only play what you have learned from the tablature.

When it comes to "playing what you hear" as you referred to in my sig. I (personally) think it's a good idea to not think very much about it. The main thing you want to think about is "what sound do i want to get next" or "what phrase do i want next", when i am actually playing i couldn't care less if what i was playing was a perfect fifth or a c major arpeggio, i just think about the sounds.

And as MDC said, try singing everything you play. That will help you internalize music a lot quicker and it will bridge the gap between your mind, ears and guitar. I highly recommend doing what you wanted to do, transcribe a lot of vocal melodies, it's a great thing to do! I often sit at the radio on a daily basis and try to learn the vocal melodies of the songs that come on. If it's something harder i do have to slow it down though.

I hope that helped.
Best Regards
Sickz
Fusion and jazz musician, a fan of most music.

Quote by Guthrie Govan
“If you steal from one person it's theft, and if you steal from lots of people it's research”


Quote by Chick Corea
"Only play what you hear. If you don't hear anything, don't play anything."