#1
Today in my Forms & Analysis class, we ended up getting really off topic from what we were supposed to be doing, because of a few questions in class, and basically my professor is this lady who got her PhD in Music Theory at Harvard, and we were just talking about all the problems she had with music pedagogy. Stuff like not enough counterpoint being taught, problems with the Kostka-Payne textbooks, too much emphasis on four part chorale writing, and not just college curriculum, but private instruction and how it's generally taught in the US.

Anyways, I've always had my opinions on what's wrong with how X is being taught, but that's mostly just in the realm of classical guitar. From you guys' experience being taught as musicians, what are some qualms that you've gained?
#2
Eh, never understood people who learn or teach music in a university/higher learning setting. Studying textbooks just kills all creativity makes you a generic player, the end result only really being capable of being a session musician or play in a orchestra of some sort in my opinion, which 99% of the time isnt playing your own material.

Any structured and graded environment has been proven to primarily use analytical sections of the brain, not the creative regardless of topic.

Why purposely shoot yourself in the foot? It kinda baffles me to be honest.
#3
Quote by hyper5
Eh, never understood people who learn or teach music in a university/higher learning setting. Studying textbooks just kills all creativity makes you a generic player, the end result only really being capable of being a session musician or play in a orchestra of some sort in my opinion, which 99% of the time isnt playing your own material.

Any structured and graded environment has been proven to primarily use analytical sections of the brain, not the creative regardless of topic.

Why purposely shoot yourself in the foot? It kinda baffles me to be honest.

I don't agree. It only kills your creativity if you only look music on paper and never listen to it. Knowing what's going on doesn't do any harm. It just makes it easier to understand music.

But yeah, I don't really like the way (classical) music theory is taught, at least in Finland. It emphasizes reading notation too much and has too little listening. Though it also depends on the teachers. Some teachers use more listening, some teachers just make you look at the paper in front of you and understand the things on paper.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

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#4
i kind of agree with this guy and i think it applies to learning music as well. schools a lot of times does kill creativity, a lot of people give up or never take things further.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY

i also agree with this below for how music should be learned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zvjW9arAZ0
#5
Quote by hyper5
Eh, never understood people who learn or teach music in a university/higher learning setting. Studying textbooks just kills all creativity makes you a generic player, the end result only really being capable of being a session musician or play in a orchestra of some sort in my opinion, which 99% of the time isnt playing your own material.

Any structured and graded environment has been proven to primarily use analytical sections of the brain, not the creative regardless of topic.

Why purposely shoot yourself in the foot? It kinda baffles me to be honest.


You don't understand people who learn or teach music in a higher education setting because you are ignorant to what being a music student or teacher at a university involves.
If you think higher music education can be summed up to "studying textbooks" than you shouldn't speak on the subject because you have no idea what you are talking about.
12 fret fury
#6
Judging popular music over the last few decades, if more than 10% of popular/successful artists went to music school i'd be surprised.
#7
credits on ensemble courses should be higher considering the amount of work and time required. jazz big band is 2 credits while other easy classes like history/ world music etc are 3 credits

really love the private instrument lessons so far, it really depends on the teacher you'll get. you might get one of the inexperienced teachers (doctoral students in classical music can teach to 2 students each session). ive noticed the "inexperienced" teachers tend to be way more impatient/irritable than the faculty teachers
Last edited by SuperKid at Nov 21, 2013,
#8
I've never learnt it anywhere near the level you're talking about, but I don't like how some teachers (this goes for any subject, not just guitar) almost try to take the fun out of it to "weed out" the lazier people. Screw that. It's supposed to be fun. If you do that you're probably weeding out the people with a "spark" as well. Or who teach way too slowly with boring and pointless drills etc. before even letting you actually play something musical.

Also the technique police who try to change people to doing things the "correct" way even if the person in question is not being held back by it.

I also don't like it when some teachers don't teach it in the way it's done in the real world- theoretically only rather than what's also done in practice.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#9
Quote by The Madcap
Today in my Forms & Analysis class, we ended up getting really off topic from what we were supposed to be doing, because of a few questions in class, and basically my professor is this lady who got her PhD in Music Theory at Harvard, and we were just talking about all the problems she had with music pedagogy. Stuff like not enough counterpoint being taught, problems with the Kostka-Payne textbooks, too much emphasis on four part chorale writing, and not just college curriculum, but private instruction and how it's generally taught in the US.

Anyways, I've always had my opinions on what's wrong with how X is being taught, but that's mostly just in the realm of classical guitar. From you guys' experience being taught as musicians, what are some qualms that you've gained?


I've come to the conclusion that no matter how good a particular teacher, or teaching institution is, there will always be people complaining about it.
#10
Quote by hyper5
Eh, never understood people who learn or teach music in a university/higher learning setting. Studying textbooks just kills all creativity makes you a generic player, the end result only really being capable of being a session musician or play in a orchestra of some sort in my opinion, which 99% of the time isnt playing your own material.


I like the way you casually mention playing in an orchestra like the people who play in them are second-class musicians. I guarantee anyone who makes it to that level in a professional context is top tier when it comes to musicianship.

But don't mind me, I bet you could conduct the Berlin Philharmonic like Karajan's reincarnation if only those textbook reading idiots who never play their own music would give you a shot.
.
#11
The biggest thing that I noticed was the reliance on a "method" in theory. I can't speak for any other university, but the theory taught at my school was very reliant on very methodically writing exercises. So everyone gets really good at writing exercises, but don't really understand how harmony works or how to write a melody or structure a piece or, you know, how to actually write music. I think in general there's too much of a reliance of methods from textbooks instead of a more organic way of learning with analysis and application.

Outside of that, the biggest complaint is that theory and history are usually taught out of context with one another. My 20th Century class was a combination of both history and theory and there's so much more value in that than learning them separately.
#12
Quote by GuitarMunky
I've come to the conclusion that no matter how good a particular teacher, or teaching institution is, there will always be people complaining about it.


LOL

that probably goes both ways, though, nomatter how bad something is there'll also always be someone praising it
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#13
Quote by GuitarMunky
there will always be people complaining about it.

I luv this.

Job done. /thread.
#14
Quote by Dave_Mc
LOL

that probably goes both ways, though, nomatter how bad something is there'll also always be someone praising it


Totally agree!
#15
and most of the people saying either thing won't really be qualified to make an informed decision
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#16
Quote by Dave_Mc
and most of the people saying either thing won't really be qualified to make an informed decision

that's what I'm thinking. Nomesayin
#17
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?