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#1
Let's have a debate about it.

Is it good or bad? Are you in favour of it or not?

I'm personally not, 1. Two wrongs don't make a right, and 2. Sitting in a room all day being made to reflect on your crime is a far more effective punishment 3. Prison should be about rehabilitation and not punishment

Your opinion?

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#2
S'good in principle, the execution could use some work
My God, it's full of stars!
#4
What you said except i might allow it for the people who are gonna post walls of text in this thread
#5
Actually, I'm all for it.

1. Why should we let them reflect on their crimes if their crimes are severe enough that they're never going to be released. At that point, reflection is worthless.

2. Why waste tax payer dollars to keep a criminal behind bars for life, if they're found guilty. Even when you think of it in terms of simple crimes, such as someone breaking into a car and stealing your belongings. Assuming that individual got caught, when you think about it, wouldn't it just be cheaper to let them keep your god damn car stereos?

and 3. Prison exists and a punishment for crime, but in reality, you're just putting them in a building with other criminals. There is nothing stopping them from learning new tricks of the trade or getting inspired to commit other crimes. There are some people that you just can't change. it'd be like sitting a group of atheists in a room and preaching to them about the word of God. How many souls do you think you're going to save? My guess, not many.

just my $.02
Quote by JackWhiteIsButts
I saw Pantera live once, Dime changed into a body bag right there on stage.


#7
i'd be in favor of it if they used c4 and taped it instead.

Quote by kurt_cobain9
Actually, I'm all for it.

1. Why should we let them reflect on their crimes if their crimes are severe enough that they're never going to be released. At that point, reflection is worthless.

2. Why waste tax payer dollars to keep a criminal behind bars for life, if they're found guilty. Even when you think of it in terms of simple crimes, such as someone breaking into a car and stealing your belongings. Assuming that individual got caught, when you think about it, wouldn't it just be cheaper to let them keep your god damn car stereos?

and 3. Prison exists and a punishment for crime, but in reality, you're just putting them in a building with other criminals. There is nothing stopping them from learning new tricks of the trade or getting inspired to commit other crimes. There are some people that you just can't change. it'd be like sitting a group of atheists in a room and preaching to them about the word of God. How many souls do you think you're going to save? My guess, not many.

just my $.02


Last edited by Dregen at Nov 26, 2013,
#8
Idealistically: I think the legal system should be about rehabilitation and prevention.
Pragmatically: it's far more expensive that imprisoning for life anyway.
Realistically: even if people are for harsh punishment and retribution, being imprisoned for life would be most likely a lot worse for people than a quick death.
#9
Since people like Jeffery Dahmer, John Wayne Gacey and Timothy McVeigh are always going to exist, it is a good thing. The fact that because the dumbass UN says that it's a "human rights violation", the monsters who committed genocide in Rawanda, Bosnia, Cambodia and Darfur will never be executed for their atrocities, which they should be, as the Nazi's were. The only thing with the death penalty is that there needs to be no doubt that the accused committed the heinous crimes. Criminals such as serial killers, perpetrators of genocide, war criminals, and terrorists should all be put to death, no exceptions.
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Last edited by KerNeL_KLuTcH at Nov 26, 2013,
#10
Quote by kurt_cobain9
Actually, I'm all for it.

1. Why should we let them reflect on their crimes if their crimes are severe enough that they're never going to be released. At that point, reflection is worthless.

2. Why waste tax payer dollars to keep a criminal behind bars for life, if they're found guilty. Even when you think of it in terms of simple crimes, such as someone breaking into a car and stealing your belongings. Assuming that individual got caught, when you think about it, wouldn't it just be cheaper to let them keep your god damn car stereos?

and 3. Prison exists and a punishment for crime, but in reality, you're just putting them in a building with other criminals. There is nothing stopping them from learning new tricks of the trade or getting inspired to commit other crimes. There are some people that you just can't change. it'd be like sitting a group of atheists in a room and preaching to them about the word of God. How many souls do you think you're going to save? My guess, not many.

just my $.02


But who is anyone to decide on the death of a human being? Doing it as a State or an Institution is even worse as it's just a way of deindividuating those who are committing murder in its name.
#11
40+ year police officer here. Not in favor of the death penalty.

In continuing with this practice, we join an elite club of nations that are among the most backward and repressive on Earth. Essentially all industrialized "civilized" nations have abandoned the practice.

First, as a deterrent to crime... It doesn't work. Most capital offenses are crimes of passion, or crimes that are the result of mental illness.

Secondly, it's inequitably applied. Your chances of execution if you are poor and of an ethnic minority are vastly greater than if you are wealthy and white. Good lawyers mean.... No needle.

Thirdly, it's vastly expensive. when one totes up the amount of time and money spent on prolonged death-row imprisonment, mandatory appeals, court time, etc.... Executions cost far more than simply imprisoning the individual for life.

We (the state of Missouri) just executed a fellow who committed a series of racially-motivated murders. In the 1970s. He has been on death row for about 40 years. A prolonged administrative mess occurred when the execution drugs to be used were prohibited to be exported to the US for executions. (Mostly manufactured in Europe)
So they decided to use the same stuff that killed Michael Jackson, propyphol. The manufacturer wouldn't allow it.
So, the legislature had to jump through hoops and passed laws to keep the source of any execution drugs secret.
This will likely be challenged as illegal, but the state did succeed in executing the guy, some 40 years after he was convicted.
#12
Quote by KerNeL_KLuTcH
The only thing with the death penalty is that their needs to be no doubt that the accused committed the heinous crimes.


loooooool
#13
What I find funny is a lot of lower class people in our country are against Islamic laws etc. bordering on racism. And then these people are all in favour of execution, torture, chemical castrations etc.

Some guy who went to my Uni just said " If you take a life you should lose yours, if you rape someone you should be castrated.. pretty simple logic tbh"

I don't get these people. I'm not going to feel justice or pleasure from someone being tortured and killed in my name.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#14
Quote by Basti95
But who is anyone to decide on the death of a human being? Doing it as a State or an Institution is even worse as it's just a way of deindividuating those who are committing murder in its name.



not saying it's morally right. Just saying it would solve a lot of problems.
Quote by JackWhiteIsButts
I saw Pantera live once, Dime changed into a body bag right there on stage.


#15
Quote by kurt_cobain9
not saying it's morally right. Just saying it would solve a lot of problems.


It'd probably just complicate things, imagine if someone got wrongly executed, there would be such a shit storm around that.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#16
I think people should go on a list (kinda like death row) but they get to choose if they want to live in prison till they die or if they want to be executed.
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#17
Quote by EndTheRapture51
It'd probably just complicate things, imagine if someone got wrongly executed, there would be such a shit storm around that.


well, wouldn't be any different than now really. don't think there isn't an innocent person somewhere with a life sentence?

Yet, I see no such shit storm.
Quote by JackWhiteIsButts
I saw Pantera live once, Dime changed into a body bag right there on stage.


#18
Quote by kurt_cobain9
well, wouldn't be any different than now really. don't think there isn't an innocent person somewhere with a life sentence?

Yet, I see no such shit storm.


The difference is, if someone's in prison, they can still see their family, they can still exist and have some kind of life, and even get released if more evidence comes to life.

If they got executed, that's it, they're gone, dead. No chance to continue their life.

Doesn't that seem slightly off to you m8

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#19
Quote by EndTheRapture51


Some guy who went to my Uni just said " If you take a life you should lose yours, if you rape someone you should be castrated.. pretty simple logic tbh"

I don't get these people. I'm not going to feel justice or pleasure from someone being tortured and killed in my name.



I have no moral issue with this whatsoever.

The biggest issue it creates is an infinite loop.
It would only end with one person left alive.
#20
I'm against it for many reasons, but I think the simplest one is the fact that it does nothing to reduce the crime rates. Look at the USA for example, they've done it for a long, long time, and still they're the country with the highest number of individuals in jail in the world.

Besides, prisons are not made to punish, they are made to rehabilitate. People tend to ignore social context and psychological faculties when dealing with criminals, sadly. Also, despite the fact that our emotions always try to take the lead of things everytime we see a crime on the telly, criminals are still human beings. I'm not fond of it in any way.
#22
Quote by EndTheRapture51
The difference is, if someone's in prison, they can still see their family, they can still exist and have some kind of life, and even get released if more evidence comes to life.

If they got executed, that's it, they're gone, dead. No chance to continue their life.

Doesn't that seem slightly off to you m8



no, not really.

if something like that happened, law enforcement, investigators, etc, as well as lawyers would be forced to step up their game. And is that really a bad thing?
Quote by JackWhiteIsButts
I saw Pantera live once, Dime changed into a body bag right there on stage.


#23
It's wrong in that the government is setting the precedent that you are justified in killing someone out of vengeance. A government should set the example that it's wrong to do, not that it's alright if you have a good enough reason.
#24
A couple of year ago, I met a guy who was on death row for something like 30 years before being cleared of all charges. Yeah. It's fucked up. As long as there is even the smallest room for error in prosecution, it is absolutely immoral to start ending lives.
#25
Our justice system simply isn't accurate enough to allow for the death penalty, even if it were otherwise desirable (which it doesn't really seem to be).
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#27
The government can't run something as simple as a web site. Yet some of you trust them with your lives.
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#28
Quote by Jackal58
The government can't run something as simple as a web site. Yet some of you trust them with your lives.


+1
Quote by JackWhiteIsButts
I saw Pantera live once, Dime changed into a body bag right there on stage.


#30
Against it mostly. Every once in a while you hear of something so heinous that it's actually justified. In the less heinous stuff it would be better to just put them to work than kill them. Not in like a concentration camp way, more like an indentured servitude way.
#31
I'm for it in the sense that bad people need to be removed from society. But the system is so far out of whack that it is impossible to dole out justice fairly.

The death penalty should be gone. Too often prosecutors and judges try to move through cases without really getting to the heart of the crimes. Too often poor and under-educated people find themselves on death row because they could not afford a proper defense.

And then there is this....

If even ONE PERSON is wrongfully convicted and put to death, then the system has FAILED and the cost has become too high.

And I'm sure that has happened more than once.

A great book about a really interesting death penalty case is "The Innocent Man" by John Grisham. A non-fiction account of a guy who spent most of his life on death row only to be freed after many decades because it was proven that the cops and prosecutor railroaded the poor bastard. He died not long after being released.

It's a small book. Most of you could get through it.
#32
Quote by 5_Years_Dead
I'm for it in the sense that bad people need to be removed from society. But the system is so far out of whack that it is impossible to dole out justice fairly.

The death penalty should be gone. Too often prosecutors and judges try to move through cases without really getting to the heart of the crimes. Too often poor and under-educated people find themselves on death row because they could not afford a proper defense.

And then there is this....

If even ONE PERSON is wrongfully convicted and put to death, then the system has FAILED and the cost has become too high.

And I'm sure that has happened more than once.


A well informed opinion, I agree entirely. As far as I'm aware no EU nations have the death penalty as of the moment, it's just not a practical policy. It's deterent effect isn't really noticable enough to possibly justify the injustice that can occur due to capital punishment. You hear many cases of people who are convicted for crimes and are only found to be innocent 20-30 years later or even more, there's just too much room for error for capital punishment to work.
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#33
eh, too much room for error for me to support it. Not entirely against the concept for really heinous stuff though.
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#34
Quote by iommi600
Also, despite the fact that our emotions always try to take the lead of things everytime we see a crime on the telly, criminals are still human beings

This.

I mean sometimes it's hard and seems unfair for people who have destroyed/taken the lives of others to get to keep on living.

But we let our emotions get the best of us too much. And I agree with the guy who finds it funny how a lot of people are so against Sharia Law and all that jazz...but will happily be in favour of the death penalty and castrations.
#35
Quote by EndTheRapture51
1. Two wrongs don't make a right

I agree.

2. Sitting in a room all day being made to reflect on your crime is a far more effective punishment

I disagree completely. It has obviously failed tens of thousands of times when petty criminals go in and hardened criminals come out.

Especially in cases where the criminal is too far gone to realize that what he did was wrong, or worse, as time goes on in his cell, he more and more firmly believes that what he did was right and he is being unfairly punished.

3. Prison should be about rehabilitation and not punishment

I agree wholeheartedly. However, unlike a lot of people who are fervently against the death penalty, I think that it should be kept only in extreme cases. In cases where it is proven without a doubt that the accused is guilty of a heinous crime (as in, he killed/maimed/tortured multiple victims, he admits to it, and there are multiple witnesses confirming his guilt), then the death penalty should be issued.

I really do believe that the death penalty is unnecessary in most cases and that incarceration should be about rehabilitation, but I genuinely believe that some people are just completely beyond saving.

I would use Charles Manson as an example of someone who is beyond rehabilitation, but it seems that many people are fascinated by him and think his mental state could be useful for study.
#36
there are some criminals that deserve much worse than the death penalty. The whole "there still humans" thing is total bull, once you kill, rape, or torture someone or something, you are no longer a human. You are evil and there is no excuse for what you have done. Some can change, but many won't.
#37
Quote by ehbacon
there are some criminals that deserve much worse than the death penalty. The whole "there still humans" thing is total bull, once you kill, rape, or torture someone or something, you are no longer a human. You are evil and there is no excuse for what you have done. Some can change, but many won't.


And you have prior knowledge of which ones are recoverable?
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#39
Quote by ehbacon
I don't understand your question.


'Some can change, but many may not.'

So do you know which ones will and which won't? Do you know anyone who can know?
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#40
The fact that there is a conceivable chance we could execute an innocent person means that the death penalty should be abolished.

Only exception would be if a convicted criminal elected to be executed instead of serving a life sentence.
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