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#1
This really bothers me, nobody can gain any decent employment without needless Qualifications. It's Silly because allot of these qualifications cost so much, but the skills could be easily taught on the job like "the good 'ol days".

And don't get me started on all those pointless degrees people seek with don't leads to any career path, or the people who hastily rush into a 3 year program without much thought, wasting time and money.


Thoughts?
#3
Quote by Guitarcrazydude
This really bothers me, nobody can gain any decent employment without needless Qualifications.

Not true at all

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#5
Become a subsistence farmer.

not too keen on Ag

Not true at all


Hmm here in Australia Tafe/Uni are hyped up so much and pretty much anything other than simple jobs need some kind of Course, with could easily be learnt on the job
#7
Dont you think its a good thing that education is so important now? Look at the big picture.
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#8
Quote by Guitarcrazydude
This really bothers me, nobody can gain any decent employment without needless Qualifications.
Thoughts?

If you aren't qualified to perform the work to an adequate standard you should not be hired to do the work. If you can't show anything to the employer to certify your competence at least to the point where they can put a reasonable enough amount of trust in your ability to perform it (relevant work experience, education, etc), why should they hire you? What gives you the right to meaningful employment you have no business in performing due to complete ignorance and inexperience compared to the many prospective employees who are qualified and employers can reasonably trust? Why do you feel that you are entitled for a company to take you on and pay you a wage for something you have no zero experience in? They should just trust you and allocate resources and invest in you because you feel like you could "learn it on the job"?

Not a single career comes to mind where that happens. Even in the trades you take an apprenticeship or go to college to become certified in your trade.

Maybe this doesn't happen like in the "good ol' days" because they don't hire people who have no idea what they are doing and then put them in management positions.
#9
I know why should you have to be qualified to get a job?
It's bullshit.
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LET'S GO BUCKS
#10
College is fraud. They want you to spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to get a piece of paper that allows you to start at the bottom.
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#11
Originally posted by Thrashtastic15
if you aren't qualified to perform the work to an adequate standard you should not be hired to do the work. If you can't show anything to the employer to certify your competence at least to the point where they can put a reasonable enough amount of trust in your ability to perform it (relevant work experience, education, etc), why should they hire you? What gives you the right to meaningful employment you have no business in performing due to complete ignorance and inexperience compared to the many prospective employees who are qualified and employers can reasonably trust? Why do you feel that you are entitled for a company to take you on and pay you a wage for something you have no zero experience in? They should just trust you and allocate resources and invest in you because you feel like you could "learn it on the job"?

Not a single career comes to mind where that happens. Even in the trades you take an apprenticeship or go to college to become certified in your trade.

Maybe this doesn't happen like in the "good ol' days" because they don't hire people who have no idea what they are doing and then put them in management positions.


I understand that for some professions Eg Doctors, Engineers, Lawyers ect. need formal traditional training I'm referring to jobs like I.T, Retail,Hospitality that could be learnt on the job
#13
Quote by Guitarcrazydude
II'm referring to jobs like I.T, Retail,Hospitality that could be learnt on the job

You really don't need formal qualifications for these things, even though they say on paper you do.

However, you need to be able to show them that you're personable and quick to adapt.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#15
Quote by ecvMatt
College is fraud. They want you to spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to get a piece of paper that allows you to start at the bottom.


Exactly, that's if you were smart enough to complete a degree that actually had employment prospects.

I'm not saying that higher education is bad, for some professions it's vital, but so many degrees could be Taught at the technical education level (Tafe here in Aus) and so many jobs are so simple completing a course isn't necessary Eg: "Cert 3 in retail" "Cert 2 in Voluntary work" stupid stuff like that.
#16
Join the Military.
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#17
well if you were a manager, who would you give an interview to first? someone with a degree, or without?
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#18
Quote by vIsIbleNoIsE
well if you were a manager, who would you give an interview to first? someone with a degree, or without?

I would give the interview to whoever vouched for the person.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#19
Your writing is even bad for internet standards, I'm not surprised nobody has hired you. Does your resume include the atrocious 'people seek with don't leads to', 'allot', or random capitalization?
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#20
"I can't get a job, so clearly the world's a messed-up place that puts too much emphasis on pointless qualifications that I coincidentally don't have and should focus on the basic stuff that doesn't require effort that I coincidentally do have."
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#21
Go into banking. Evidence suggests you don't require the faintest idea of what you're doing for that.
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#22
Might as well hire someone that has all the necessary education and qualifications than spend the time training someone that has none. These days there are so many people that have a ton of education that still can't get jobs. Why not hire those people that have actually tried to gain some knowledge.
#23
Quote by Metalisnotmusic
Your writing is even bad for internet standards, I'm not surprised nobody has hired you. Does your resume include the atrocious 'people seek with don't leads to', 'allot', or random capitalization?

One of my biggest pet peeves.
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#24
Actually qualifications are often pretty useless without any real experience. Obviously there are jobs that need formal qualifications, but a lot want you to demonstrate experience doing what they want you to do.
#25
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One of my biggest pet peeves.


It Really is Very Annoying.
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#26
It's not so much a sole focus on credentials that is the problem.
People have become skittish over the years. No backbone, no guts and certainly no balls.
Imagine every member of society not wanting to hurt the feelings of anyone they encounter on the premise of them responding. The world is a risky place, which everyone accepts, but when it comes to 'feelings' we're all about as shy as shy can get. Scared, almost.

So it's no wonder there's a focus on credentials. It's like preferring to judge the Mona Lisa on the detailed backdrop, rather than the figure itself or the painting as a whole. It's escapism, and IMO it's no better than stepping out balls first and taking that chance with someone who might actually surprise you.


Or, I'm talking complete BS. Don't know
#27
It's probably for the good of humanity if people get an education. Think of it this way; better education, less stupid people, less stupid decisions, more happy, less pointless bickering and bullshit.

However, the first part of my Theory of Society I've been working on clearly states that stupid people will exist for as long as society itself exists. So, the stupid population may dip, but it won't be long before it goes back to rocketing upwards.
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#28
And here I am looking at my new co-workers wondering "how the **** did you make it past the interview process?"
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#29
Quote by Carnivean
Dont you think its a good thing that education is so important now? Look at the big picture.


I know plenty of people with degrees with a very, very basic understanding of how of the world works.

Quote by Mister A.J.
It's probably for the good of humanity if people get an education. Think of it this way; better education, less stupid people, less stupid decisions, more happy, less pointless bickering and bullshit.

However, the first part of my Theory of Society I've been working on clearly states that stupid people will exist for as long as society itself exists. So, the stupid population may dip, but it won't be long before it goes back to rocketing upwards.


Bullshit. Again, I know plenty of people with a degree who are dumb as rocks. Going to university does not make you smart.

Quote by Guitarcrazydude
I understand that for some professions Eg Doctors, Engineers, Lawyers ect. need formal traditional training I'm referring to jobs like I.T, Retail,Hospitality that could be learnt on the job


And welcome to the German system.
Last edited by Philip_pepper at Nov 26, 2013,
#30
Making it more commonplace for people to get university education would cause academic inflation. Degrees wouldn't be of any value when it comes to being employable because everyone would have them.

I agree that people ought to be educated, but you do not need a degree to be well-educated. A person's competence at a task should be measured by their competence, not their CV. Sure, some jobs may require a piece of paper to certify them, especially in the case of being a doctor or an engineer, but not all jobs should need that.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Nov 26, 2013,
#31
Quote by Philip_pepper
Bullshit. Again, I know plenty of people with a degree who are dumb as rocks. Going to university does not make you smart.

Anecdotal evidence and generalization is a general no-no when it comes to debate. Thus, I raise one full level of bullshit on you, until you can prove, with undeniable evidence, that going to university does nothing to the human intellect.
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#32
There is definitely the possibility of overfocusing on credentials, but I think you did a poor job of explaining that. Good and/or plentiful credentials do not inherently equate to an individual who is good at the job.
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#33
Quote by Mister A.J.
Anecdotal evidence and generalization is a general no-no when it comes to debate. Thus, I raise one full level of bullshit on you, until you can prove, with undeniable evidence, that going to university does nothing to the human intellect.


People go to university, get a useless degree, get into a shit ton of debt, come out expecting to get a job and don't.

Why did they go to university then? Because they were told to, and any other alternative was frowned upon.

At the very least, I hope their intellect learned to ask more questions.

And I don't think stupid "can be fixed". Some people are a bit dim, or simple, no matter what you do. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

Anyway, with the comment that you quoted I also meant to say that I know people who have a university degree and think they are hot shit, when they're not.
#34
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Making it more commonplace for people to get university education would cause academic inflation. Degrees wouldn't be of any value when it comes to being employable because everyone would have them.

I agree that people ought to be educated, but you do not need a degree to be well-educated. A person's competence at a task should be measured by their competence, not their CV. Sure, some jobs may require a piece of paper to certify them, especially in the case of being a doctor or an engineer, but not all jobs should need that.


This is what I'm talking about. Schools pushing uni like it's the only option for employment, it is common for people to get halfway through a degree and hate it, or finish one and decide there are no longer interested in that field. Wasting time and money, when they could have been working or doing something productive.

Society now only looks favorably on people with degrees and certificates. Employers won't consider other people even if they have the skills.

So many careers don't need the associated degree qualification, Eg IT, Graphics design, PR work, Management etc these and may others could be taught as a much shorter program at a technical school taking out all the needless information and focusing on job specific/relevant skills.
#35
Quote by Guitarcrazydude
This is what I'm talking about. Schools pushing uni like it's the only option for employment, it is common for people to get halfway through a degree and hate it, or finish one and decide there are no longer interested in that field. Wasting time and money, when they could have been working or doing something productive.

Society now only looks favorably on people with degrees and certificates. Employers won't consider other people even if they have the skills.

So many careers don't need the associated degree qualification, Eg IT, Graphics design, PR work, Management etc these and may others could be taught as a much shorter program at a technical school taking out all the needless information and focusing on job specific/relevant skills.


Exactly.

I must say, I'm happy to be at uni and I'll be graduating next year, but I definitely felt letdown by the whole experience because of this. Uni was advertised as the end all, be all. Sure as hell isn't.
#36
Quote by Guitarcrazydude
This is what I'm talking about. Schools pushing uni like it's the only option for employment, it is common for people to get halfway through a degree and hate it, or finish one and decide there are no longer interested in that field. Wasting time and money, when they could have been working or doing something productive.


Says who? The simple fact that you can show that you're able to complete a Degree level qualification is attractive enough in itself to a potential employer
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#37
I just dropped out of school and i'm looking for a job at the moment, last week I went into a shop to ask for a job and an Indian guy that could barely speak english asked me if I have experience, I said no but I am a quick learner, he didn't understand what I said after multiple times trying too explain, he then asked where i'm from, I thought he meant what area and he said "No what country", I'm from the country I live in, I said "Ireland", he didn't understand me and said "No what country", I said "Ireland, This country", he didn't understand, I gave him my CV, I think it's bullshit that an Irish company demands experience for a menial job but will hire someone who can't understand the language that is spoken here over someone who can.
#38
Quote by metacarpi
Says who? The simple fact that you can show that you're able to complete a Degree level qualification is attractive enough in itself to a potential employer


It happens often, people get tired of studying something they were never sure they would like but they were pushed into it.

Say they do complete a degree and decide the job it leads to isn't for them and they look for another job/occupation that is different, a degree that is Irrelevant wont make them any more suitable than any other applicant.

Say I complete half a Bio degree and decide I want to be a Builder, Prospective employers aren't going to care about my knowledge of the structure and function of living organisms.
#39
Quote by Guitarcrazydude
It happens often, people get tired of studying something they were never sure they would like but they were pushed into it.

Say they do complete a degree and decide the job it leads to isn't for them and they look for another job/occupation that is different, a degree that is Irrelevant wont make them any more suitable than any other applicant.

Say I complete half a Bio degree and decide I want to be a Builder, Prospective employers aren't going to care about my knowledge of the structure and function of living organisms.


That's simply not true. A degree in a relevant field is always worth more, but the act of obtaining a degree at all demonstrates a number of desirable characteristics - commitment, the abililty to work on your own initiative, the desire to learn.

Example: My degree is in Civil Engineering. I know work as an IT developer for a large engineering company.
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Pooping is well good though, to be fair.


I've got a handle on the fiction.

I'm losing my grip, 'cos I'm losing my fingers.
#40
Quote by metacarpi
That's simply not true. A degree in a relevant field is always worth more, but the act of obtaining a degree at all demonstrates a number of desirable characteristics - commitment, the abililty to work on your own initiative, the desire to learn.

Example: My degree is in Civil Engineering. I know work as an IT developer for a large engineering company.


I agree that a degree in a relevant field can be useful, but an unrelated degree doesn't mean a great deal. Especially for jobs that aren't entirely focused on book smarts/Academic Knowledge.

What I'm saying is people shouldn't be pressured into uni just because "It's what people do after high school" Schools should accept that although people may be capable of tertiary education it may not be there thing. Hands on job relevant training is just as important.
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