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#1
I've got this weird problem, i've been training ear pretty rigorously for the past year and a half. I've been transcribing jazz solo's and i like to think my ear is in pretty good shape. One thing that i can't do that well is, electric guitar. Trumpets, Sax's and clean guitar are pretty straightforward, but doing electric guitar is a bitch and a half. Anyone feel the same way? Any tips to get past it?

Thanks
#2
I think that the only tip is "keep trying 'til you get it".

Rock solos are mainly pentatonic.

Different guitar effects (wah, fuzz, tremolo, etc) can be tricky to get the right note.

So, yeah, keep doing, start with easy ones and then go increasing the difficulty.
#3
Slow them down (Windows Media Player can do it). Guitar solos are usually faster than trumpet or sax solos and that makes hearing individual notes harder.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#4
Also don't be afraid of getting tabs of solos you like or which have the sound you're after. It's an awful lot easier to start transcribing yourself once you realise what's normally going on.

A lot of rock solos have a lot of bluesy stuff in there too, minor 3rd bent slightly sharp, flat 5ths and stuff like that.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#5
It's just a matter of getting used to it. I hade the same problem but the other way around. I used to me a metal dude like 3 years back, so electric guitars with lot of distortion was something i was used to learn by ear.

When i more or less left that style and started doing afro-music (blues, jazz, fusion, funk) i had to train my ear to that.

I think it's a matter of style really. Each style of music is like a different language or accent within itself. And you have to listen and transcribe a lot of it to become familiar with it. It will get you a well rounded ear as well.

So yeah, my tip is just to do it a lot and with time you will get used to it. But maybe you should start with simpler stuff that uses that kind of sound, just to get used to it.
Fusion and jazz musician, a fan of most music.

Quote by Guthrie Govan
“If you steal from one person it's theft, and if you steal from lots of people it's research”


Quote by Chick Corea
"Only play what you hear. If you don't hear anything, don't play anything."
#6
It takes some getting used to, and some guessing. Sometimes you have to guess, if the notes are very dirty and you can't hear them well, especially if it is a fast run. Knowing a bit of theory helps too (you probably know, but I'm just being thorough )
What I've been doing, and it works really well for me, is that I slow the part down (I use a program called BestPractice, it's free and I can make a loop of the part I want) and try singing it. The octave doesn't matter, but if I can sing the part properly I can find the notes much easier on the fretboard. Hope this helps!
#7
Thanks for the replies guys!

Its kinda funny actually haha, when i slow them down too much i feel like i lose the notes in a way because of the distortion. For example, I'm working on sweet child o' mine and I'm stuck at the part where slash turns on the way and does that fast run. I'll keep working at it though
#10
Quote by jalaniftw
Thanks for the replies guys!

Its kinda funny actually haha, when i slow them down too much i feel like i lose the notes in a way because of the distortion. For example, I'm working on sweet child o' mine and I'm stuck at the part where slash turns on the way and does that fast run. I'll keep working at it though

Slowing the song down makes it sound pretty bad. But I think figuring out notes becomes a bit easier, at least once you get used to it.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#11
Quote by jalaniftw
For example, I'm working on sweet child o' mine and I'm stuck at the part where slash turns on the way and does that fast run. I'll keep working at it though


I hear what you're talking about dude! What an annoying part of the song to figure out. What I opted to do was (in this order):

1. Find some vids of Slash playing it.

2. Give up and play something that kinda sounds like it.

Using this tried and true method I landed a slot in a band that was paid $3,000 a gig. Unfortunately I had to turn it down because my originals band is going so well, but live your dream!
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#12
If it's really annoying you that much would it not make more sense to just admit defeat and get the tab? I mean I'm not saying that learning by ear isn't a good skill to have but sometimes (read: pretty much always) I just admit defeat and get the tab instead. I can muck about for ages trying to work the thing out (and still probably not have it quite right) or I can get the tab and have the song down in 20 minutes. Maybe I just don't have enough willpower, I dunno.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#13
Quote by Dave_Mc
If it's really annoying you that much would it not make more sense to just admit defeat and get the tab? I mean I'm not saying that learning by ear isn't a good skill to have but sometimes (read: pretty much always) I just admit defeat and get the tab instead. I can muck about for ages trying to work the thing out (and still probably not have it quite right) or I can get the tab and have the song down in 20 minutes. Maybe I just don't have enough willpower, I dunno.


Most tab on this site is wrong in one way or another.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#14
True, but it's still normally at least a bit helpful. Maybe this is just me, but I find I can get close enough with tab, even if the tab's not 100%, whereas it's a pain trying to do it all by myself.

Plus I mean if you really cared you could get "proper" tab (i.e. the type in books that you pay for). Still no guarantee it's 100% correct, but it's normally not too bad.

EDIT: You could also possibly make the case that having tab that's not necessarily 100% right is arguably the best of both worlds- like someone helping you with your homework rather than just doing it for you, or struggling to do it yourself and making no headway because you're out of your depth and don't have a clue. The tab gives you some clues and help but you still have to use your ears to make sure it's right.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Dec 5, 2013,
#15
^^^ Nah, the passage of notes in the song is really short, and I had trouble figuring it out watching Slash do it. Im confident that any person writing out the tab would have had the same issues. I can just play it my way. Bumblefoot doesn't even play the original set of notes when he does the solo and he's actually in Guns n Roses.

I can see that you're reliant on tab. That's cool but does not help you as a musician.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#16
That's kind of the least of my worries

But seriously, I mean most of this stuff is a judgement call, and it just depends on what you want to get out of it. I'm admittedly more reliant on tab than I'd like to be, but at the same time I mean classical musicians pretty much read everything from notation and no-one accuses them of not being musicians. I can normally work the stuff out if I have to, but I make a judgement call that I can learn 5 pieces from tab in the time it'd take me to work one out from scratch, and personally I'd rather do that most of the time. And learning it from tab (at least decent quality tab which I have reasonably confidence is at least mostly right) might help me in other ways, it lets me see how people play things properly (as opposed to faffing about myself maybe getting it wrong).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#17
^^^ Yeah I'm really getting what you're saying but that's cool, we have different approaches and can still be friends.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#18
No worries
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#20
I wish I could help you... I have sort of the same problems... but im way behind you :p

I spent 3-4 months every day for an hour using this earfet program, singing all the tunes, 100% over 100 questions in major scale, something like 9xish % with the minor scale, and usually something like 80+% with chromatics in major, just the #1,#2,#4,#5,#6 in one key over many octaves.

Anyway, i wouldnt want to talk you out of ear training. But i think one of the main problems with it is for people like me, i tried to cram it, like i would for a math test, then you get someone like alan here :P who is a forum junkie and probably an amazing musician, and he talks about playing by ear, but i doubt he spent countless hours playing some stupid ear training game...

I would'nt give up on ear training, however, I would give up on looking for magic beans, bullets or other snake oil / diet pill type crap. I can only hope after a few thousand failed attempts and learning lots of songs, one day ill get one right :P

As for my part, i can recognize odd chords, and usually odd tunings, but that doenst make it any easier for me to tab them out, especially if said song is beyond my abilities in the first place. I take baby steps, and when im trying to tab something out, which usually is like asking for frustration, i sing it a few times, try it a few times, over a few days, and then i look for a video of it like alan said, its easier to look for a cover that sounds good because it doesnt have all the clutter of a band and stupid lights, and if your playing acoustic, its nice to hear it on acoustic. This helps for me also because it makes the strumming/singing parts come together better as well. And while i feel like im cheating all the people who actually tabbed it out by EAR, i feel like it is still helping my ears even if i only have to tab out small portions of the song, and get the rest through obvious chord shapes.

good luck :P
#21
Quote by AlanHB
....[ ]......2. Give up and play something that kinda sounds like it.
....[ ].....:
Wow, that's eerie. It's like you were eavesdropping on the story of my life, but with faster songs....
#22
^^^ Yeah, I was to a deadline too with an impending audition. I guess at somw point you just have to make the call.

And to the post somewhere above, you are correct, I never used any ear training program. I guess in one respect I was fortunate enough to not have tabs redily available on the internet. I hate it when people rock up to practice with tab they found on the internet. Incredibly lazy.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#23
@Alan. "Guitar Player Magazine", now has a cute little blurb called, "You're playing it wrong". They don't do the whole song, but explain riffs that are commonly played, "sounding like" what's on the record, but oftentimes aren't right.

That said, I'm usually too headstrong to listen to that nonsense, and continue playing, "my arrangement".
#24
Quote by AlanHB
^^^ Yeah, I was to a deadline too with an impending audition. I guess at somw point you just have to make the call.

And to the post somewhere above, you are correct, I never used any ear training program. I guess in one respect I was fortunate enough to not have tabs redily available on the internet. I hate it when people rock up to practice with tab they found on the internet. Incredibly lazy.



hey man go easy on the rest of us :P I am 2.5 years in , and im like the epitome of a talentless musician trying to brute force myself into something that feels like competence... Ive spent probably millions of hours listening to music, but i cant tab a D/F# arpeggio to save my life, and it would take me 10 minutes to figure out the fingering for something confusing like a Fm11 or Eb6/9 or whatever. Without a video that is Oo.

me in particular, im always astonished by how many different sounds you can get out of a guitar, nevermind the fact like that something like xx0232 can sound completely different every time i move the capo... Or change chords around it.

I always appreciate the veteran guitar players giving advice, but for me finding a song or method to improve my ears or my guitar playing is like looking for a needle in a haystack sometimes Im the guy who takes 2 month breaks from guitar because i cant do what you guys can :P

Anyway, my point is that while id like to really become proficient playing by ear, I am beginning to think its just beyond my abilities or at least a long way away Some people just get more enjoyment playing from tab/sheet music, and leave the magic to the rest of you, and i can understand that.

someone out there with some credibility needs to do some sort of scientific case study on the subject of playing by ear, to just crush all the questions, a solid way to get from A to B. Maybe one of you moderator type people could lead the charge :P Find a 20-something year old person with no experience, and find out what works 100% of the time.
#25
Quote by blunderwonder
...[ ]....me in particular, im always astonished by how many different sounds you can get out of a guitar, nevermind the fact like that something like xx0232 can sound completely different every time i move the capo... Or change chords around it.
Learning moveable positions of the most common open chords C, G, D , (instead of just the E and A barre versions), can be a big help, particularly with country and folk music. "Those chords are going to be I, IV, V, more often than not, the same as if the guitar is being played open. You just need to use them to fish around for the key, and what fret the capo is being used on already in the song.

Quote by blunderwonder
I always appreciate the veteran guitar players giving advice, but for me finding a song or method to improve my ears or my guitar playing is like looking for a needle in a haystack sometimes Im the guy who takes 2 month breaks from guitar because i cant do what you guys can :P

Anyway, my point is that while id like to really become proficient playing by ear, I am beginning to think its just beyond my abilities or at least a long way away Some people just get more enjoyment playing from tab/sheet music, and leave the magic
I can read music, in the basic sense, and I'm not above using lyric / chord cheat sheets.

So, while I can figure out a good bit of what's happening on the record, sheet music and tabs help to begin to see the overall progressions and make it easier to remember blocks of chords changes sooner. Then there's the occasional chord that simply escapes me.

In any case, we all have our own abilities and limits, so there's no need to apologize for having them. At times I think the reason I have played for decades, is because, "I just don't get it".. At least not to the extent I would like to, or think I should be able to...
Fm11 or Eb6/9
I thought chords like that only existed in music mythology.....Either that, or they're chords you pay to go and watch somebody else play..
Last edited by Captaincranky at Dec 7, 2013,
#26
Quote by blunderwonder
hey man go easy on the rest of us :P I am 2.5 years in , and im like the epitome of a talentless musician trying to brute force myself into something that feels like competence... Ive spent probably millions of hours listening to music, but i cant tab a D/F# arpeggio to save my life, and it would take me 10 minutes to figure out the fingering for something confusing like a Fm11 or Eb6/9 or whatever. Without a video that is Oo.

me in particular, im always astonished by how many different sounds you can get out of a guitar, nevermind the fact like that something like xx0232 can sound completely different every time i move the capo... Or change chords around it.

I always appreciate the veteran guitar players giving advice, but for me finding a song or method to improve my ears or my guitar playing is like looking for a needle in a haystack sometimes Im the guy who takes 2 month breaks from guitar because i cant do what you guys can :P

Anyway, my point is that while id like to really become proficient playing by ear, I am beginning to think its just beyond my abilities or at least a long way away Some people just get more enjoyment playing from tab/sheet music, and leave the magic to the rest of you, and i can understand that.

someone out there with some credibility needs to do some sort of scientific case study on the subject of playing by ear, to just crush all the questions, a solid way to get from A to B. Maybe one of you moderator type people could lead the charge :P Find a 20-something year old person with no experience, and find out what works 100% of the time.

Nothing will work 100% of the time because people are different and learn differently. Some people like playing the ear training game you were talking about and some don't.

Two years of experience isn't much. You shouldn't expect yourself to be great. It takes time. When you see somebody play well, try to make it inspire you. With hard work anybody can get there. I think there's no need to hurry. Learning to play takes time. Don't think about you not having talent and everybody else having lots of talent. That's not how it is. Everybody needs to practice. Yes, some people learn faster but that may be because they are more motivated to practice and also practice a lot.

And to learn to tab chords like D/F#, Fm11 and Eb6/9, it helps if you know what the chord symbol means. How to build that kind of chord? What notes are in the chord and where are the notes on the fretboard?

When Alan said:

"I hate it when people rock up to practice with tab they found on the internet. Incredibly lazy."

I think he meant that people who come to band practices with tabs are lazy. They haven't practiced the song enough at home to memorize it and may not even have listened to the song that many times.

When I started playing the guitar, I really enjoyed tabbing songs. I didn't use other people's tabs because I noticed pretty fast that they are usually pretty inaccurate. I also learned faster if I listened to the song and made my own tabs.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#27
Quote by MaggaraMarine
...[ ]....When Alan said:

"I hate it when people rock up to practice with tab they found on the internet. Incredibly lazy."

I think he meant that people who come to band practices with tabs are lazy. They haven't practiced the song enough at home to memorize it and may not even have listened to the song that many times..
Well, why are we reading Alan's mind, and summarily adding criterion that weren't specified?

It could be equally true that a musician brings a tab of a song he or she already knows to band practice, to help the others at picking it up more quickly. I mean really, a piece of sheet music to someone who can read it, seems preferable than trying to yell a generic, "one, four, five, one", over whichever key the band believes it's playing.

I'm certain Alan's points are valid as well, and gained from some bad experiences.

But the scenario that's being portrayed, can't really be put into the, "one size fits all" pigeonhole.

Quote by MaggaraMarine
...[ ]... With hard work anybody can get there. I think there's no need to hurry. Learning to play takes time. Don't think about you not having talent and everybody else having lots of talent. That's not how it is. Everybody needs to practice. Yes, some people learn faster but that may be because they are more motivated to practice and also practice a lot.
As much as I hate to dispute this. This is one derivation of the, "practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect", "and all musicians are created equal", dogma, that everyone spouts routinely here at UG ". I wholeheartedly disagree.

People are routinely given aptitude tests, many people are more dextrous than others, and many people in all likely hood have better internal clocks, better imaginations and are much better at abstracting their life's experiences than many others. Then there's the further refinement required when you try and take youur life's various adventures,, or misadaventures, as the case may be, and turn them into a melodic presentation that resonates with others. Truth to tell, there simply aren't enough "perfect practice" hours in the day, to turn Joe Blow, into Al DiMeola or Jimi Hendrix.

Making music with a guitar is a very alluring and seductive undertaking, and I believe that allure is enough to cause many people to continue against their better judgement or realistic appraisal of their actual ability. And I'll even include myself with those persons, if it helps make my point.. That's not a problem in itself, unless it makes you frustrated and unhappy.

OK, the disclaimer: none of that was directed at the TS. It was pure Op-Ed on my part. No harm intended, just a bit of what I believe to be, an oft needed, reality check.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Dec 7, 2013,
#28
Quote by AlanHB
I guess in one respect I was fortunate enough to not have tabs redily available on the internet. I hate it when people rock up to practice with tab they found on the internet. Incredibly lazy.


i started playing a couple of years before UG (and didn't discover UG until a couple of years after it started, anyway). i just ended up buying tab books or getting guitar mags with tabs.

I just don't think it's fair to say people are lazy*. As captaincranky said (and I agree with him), people have different strengths and weaknesses- maybe you are a total badass musician who's a virtuoso in every aspect of music (and if you are, you have my total respect ), but most people are better at some things than others. It's a balancing act between not just giving up at stuff which you probably should achieve a minimum level of competency in, but at the same time not wasting hours upon hours at stuff if you're just not getting it, when that time might be better spent getting really good at the stuff which already comes sort of naturally to you. I seem to remember a greg howe quote from an article on the UG front page fairly recently, where he said being really good at a couple of things was normally better than being kinda mediocre at a whole bunch of things. I tend to agree.

And that's before you even consider that not everyone wants to, or even can afford to, make music their entire life. That's their prerogative, really. If you ask me, there's no such thing as "doing it wrong", as long as you're getting what you want out of it.

* Unless you meant what MaggaraMarine said, that people are turning up with tabs having not even practised the song. In that case even I'd tend to agree.

EDIT: I suppose it also depends on exactly the type of music you're playing. If that's the done thing in the type(s) of music you play, I suppose that's fair enough (though even still personally I don't have much time for "rules for the sake of rules").
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Dec 7, 2013,
#29
@Captaincranky: I wasn't saying that everybody's equal. If you read my post, I said that some people learn faster and I also said that people learn differently. My point was, he has been playing for 2 and a half years and gets uninspired because people that have been playing for a lot longer than him are better than him. Nobody learns without practicing and it's a fact that Jimi Hendrix, Eddie Van Halen and all great guitarists really enjoyed playing, were motivated to practice and played the guitar all the time. You may not become the next Van Halen but I'm pretty sure everybody can become a good guitarist - as long as they have the patience to practice. Just like everybody can learn to drive a car - of course not everybody will become a racing driver but everybody will be able to learn to drive well in the traffic and get the driver's license. And by good guitarist I mean somebody that can get a good sound out of the guitar and can play songs that he wants to play. You don't need to be as good as Van Halen to be good at guitar.

And I referred to Alan's post because blunderwonder replied to it and I think he kind of misunderstood what Alan's point was. He didn't say that people that learn with the help of tabs are lazy. He said people that come to band practices with tabs are lazy.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#30
I used to use tab, for a while and then i got sick of asking people, "hey what key is that in?" Or, can you tell me the notes or the frets? Learning from tabs is cool if you just wanna pick up a guitar and play your favorite songs. But when you're jamming with people its kind of a drag to slow people down. The way i learned to play by ear, was by doing some interval training and then i took a musicianship class at my community college and that kicked my ass, but it taught me a lot. I can honestly say that working something out for yourself as opposed to reading is so much more rewarding
#31
Oh also about the slash solo, I'm still working on it, haha i skipped over the passage and I'm probably gonna work backwards
#32
Quote by AlanHB
I hate it when people rock up to practice with tab they found on the internet. Incredibly lazy.


Noticed there was a bit of debate around my comment here.

Maggara was correct. What I meant was that if a person rocks up to band practice with tabs, they haven't learnt the song before practice which is a big no-no in my book. I've played with some musos who go so far as to take their internet tabs on stage with them. You're being paid at least $100 per gig, the least you can do is learn the songs.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#33
Sorry jalan for interrupting your post like that Oo. I did want to ask a question of alan and you others who have big ears :P

When you have a song figured out, do you tab it out? I mean im not joshing or anything, im just curious how you remember an entire song after noodling it out. Ive memorized solo's and many songs that i like to sing along with, but if i were learning something entirely by ear, id have to write it down so that i wouldnt forget what i just figured out :P

I feel like even after going through the process of learning a song by ear, while im sure it would be helpful to me as a musician, at some point, I will end up playing that particular song from a tab that I wrote? I mean if i forgot it that is. Im only asking really because i want to know if any of you have had to figure out a song multiple times...?

I thought chords like that only existed in music mythology.....Either that, or they're chords you pay to go and watch somebody else play..


i lol'd at this


/e

you may have already thought of this, but in addition to looking for a video of someone playing it Oo, You might try to find other recordings of the song, or trying to change the key with software, something small like that could help out if you get stuck... I have like 10 different recordings of some grateful dead songs and songs like layla, and sometimes the lead is much clearer in some songs than in others.

good luck :P
Last edited by blunderwonder at Dec 8, 2013,
#34
Quote by blunderwonder
Sorry jalan for interrupting your post like that Oo. I did want to ask a question of alan and you others who have big ears :P

When you have a song figured out, do you tab it out? I mean im not joshing or anything, im just curious how you remember an entire song after noodling it out. Ive memorized solo's and many songs that i like to sing along with, but if i were learning something entirely by ear, id have to write it down so that i wouldnt forget what i just figured out :P

I feel like even after going through the process of learning a song by ear, while im sure it would be helpful to me as a musician, at some point, I will end up playing that particular song from a tab that I wrote? I mean if i forgot it that is. Im only asking really because i want to know if any of you have had to figure out a song multiple times...?


i lol'd at this


/e

you may have already thought of this, but in addition to looking for a video of someone playing it Oo, You might try to find other recordings of the song, or trying to change the key with software, something small like that could help out if you get stuck... I have like 10 different recordings of some grateful dead songs and songs like layla, and sometimes the lead is much clearer in some songs than in others.

good luck :P



No problem its all good,

If i transcribed a well known jazz solo, I would go look at the music online somewhere. Before that i would make sure that i transcribed all of it by ear so I'm not cheating myself out of anything though. I feel like reading it reinforces what you figured out (and it helps your reading too ). Also taking licks from the piece and putting it in different keys helps too
#35
Quote by blunderwonder
When you have a song figured out, do you tab it out? I mean im not joshing or anything, im just curious how you remember an entire song after noodling it out. Ive memorized solo's and many songs that i like to sing along with, but if i were learning something entirely by ear, id have to write it down so that i wouldnt forget what i just figured out :P


I'll usually write out a chord sheet, and then never look at it again. I've never written the leads down in any form. I just figure it out, play it a couple of times and I've remembered it. It helps to have a good knowledge of theory, most songs really don't wander too far from the major/minor scale, so over time you can usually figure it out just by listening, because you know how the song goes, and how to make those noises on the guitar.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#36
Quote by blunderwonder
Sorry jalan for interrupting your post like that Oo. I did want to ask a question of alan and you others who have big ears :P

When you have a song figured out, do you tab it out? I mean im not joshing or anything, im just curious how you remember an entire song after noodling it out. Ive memorized solo's and many songs that i like to sing along with, but if i were learning something entirely by ear, id have to write it down so that i wouldnt forget what i just figured out :P

I feel like even after going through the process of learning a song by ear, while im sure it would be helpful to me as a musician, at some point, I will end up playing that particular song from a tab that I wrote? I mean if i forgot it that is. Im only asking really because i want to know if any of you have had to figure out a song multiple times...?


i lol'd at this


/e

you may have already thought of this, but in addition to looking for a video of someone playing it Oo, You might try to find other recordings of the song, or trying to change the key with software, something small like that could help out if you get stuck... I have like 10 different recordings of some grateful dead songs and songs like layla, and sometimes the lead is much clearer in some songs than in others.

good luck :P

If I want to learn the song perfectly, I may want to write it down. Just writing it down helps, I don't usually look at my tabs any more when I have tabbed the song. Because when I tab the song, at the same time I learn it.

Though today I don't think I really bother writing a tab. I just listen to the song and try to figure it out by ear and play it enough times so that I remember it. And as Alan said, if you know a bit of theory, you know that the solo stays in a pentatonic scale or major scale or whatever - the notes aren't random. Though sometimes I'm just lazy and download the tab if I need to learn a new song fast.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

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#37
Quote by AlanHB
Noticed there was a bit of debate around my comment here.

Maggara was correct. What I meant was that if a person rocks up to band practice with tabs, they haven't learnt the song before practice which is a big no-no in my book. I've played with some musos who go so far as to take their internet tabs on stage with them. You're being paid at least $100 per gig, the least you can do is learn the songs.


no worries, i agree.

funnily enough in classical you're expected to read off the music, the opposite is frowned upon. I used to get into trouble in piano lessons because the whole piece was in my head. my teacher told me to pretend in the exams that I was reading the music

Quote by jalaniftw
I can honestly say that working something out for yourself as opposed to reading is so much more rewarding


i find being able to play something well and right is rewarding too

but if it sounds like i'm kinda sitting on the fence, I kinda am. I didn't really like the rigid "YOU MUST READ MUSIC ALWAYS" approach in classical, but I don't really like the "work stuff out yourself, reading is lazy" approach that some people have to non-classical, either.

I think I just don't like being told what to do. Especially when there's normally more than one way to skin a cat.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Dec 8, 2013,
#39
To work out solos, I love the PC program Guitar and Drum Trainer (see my review here at UG:

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/reviews/others/renegade_minds/guitar__drum_trainer/index.html

You can slow things down, correct the pitch if it's not standard, do repeat loops and add a little EQ. It makes the job of figuring out new songs pretty easy.

I'm with AlanHB that if you can tie things back to some music theory, it's way easier. Instead of seeing things as fret numbers, you remember solos as "here he bends the 6th up to a b7th..." and see things in terms of patterns. It's much easier to compress a lot of information in your head that way. And it makes figuring out new solos easier because you readily identify the patterns in new songs as replays of the old patterns.
#40
Quote by timbo63

I'm with AlanHB that if you can tie things back to some music theory, it's way easier. Instead of seeing things as fret numbers, you remember solos as "here he bends the 6th up to a b7th..." and see things in terms of patterns. It's much easier to compress a lot of information in your head that way. And it makes figuring out new solos easier because you readily identify the patterns in new songs as replays of the old patterns.


Agreed.

The only thing I've sometimes found is (and this might just be me, and bear in mind i'm mainly playing devil's advocate here)- sometimes when i understand a piece in terms of the theory, I use that as an excuse to only half-learn it. "Oh, that's only I IV V, that's pretty simple," "That's just bog standard minor pentatonic," or something like that. I sorta dismiss it as if I don't need to learn it. And then when I go to play it again I can't remember what it is.

But yeah understanding properly what you're playing helps, as long as you're not a lazy git like me
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
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