#1
Hello all. I am stumped right now, and any help will be greatly appreciated!

1) I have the Major 7#11 chord shape down, but I can't for the life of me find the minor 7#11 chord shape. It seems nonexistent, is there a reason for this?

2) Do the add chords (add4, add9, etc.) have major and minor versions? or is it somewhat similar to the uniqueness of which is displayed by dominant chords? (no major or minor, but instead DOMINANT)

THANK YOU!!!!
Last edited by nato955 at Dec 11, 2013,
#2
1.) Do you mean a minor chord with a seventh and #11, or just the version of the chord that has a minor seventh, instead of a major seventh?
If you mean the first one, just voice a standard m7 chord and put the #11 on top of it. For the second, just use a dominant chord with the #11 on top.

2.) A traditional (and I've never come yet across any other variation) dominant chord is a major chord, with a minor 7th (flattened as an accidental in the major key, and from the standard raised 7th back into the minor key). Therefore although unique, it is still a major chord, as it is constructed with a major third. 'Add' chords are also constructed with a major third, thus making them major. However to take ninths for example, we can use them in a minor context too, so a Cm9 is the minor variant, C+9 is the major.

Hope that helps!
Last edited by Boreesimo at Dec 11, 2013,
#3
1) Just learn how to build chords and know the notes on the fretboard and you know how to find shapes for them.

Maj7#11 = 1, 3, 5, 7, #11 - for example Fmaj7#11 = F A C E B
m7#11 = 1, b3, 5, b7, #11 - for example Fm7#11 = F Ab C Eb B

But I think it seems nonexistent because it sounds very dissonant. m11 (1, b3, 5, b7, (9), 11) is usual but m7#11 isn't really used anywhere. You could try just playing the notes in the chord and hear why it is not used. It just doesn't sound good.

2) Yes, there are both major and minor 6, add9 and add11 chords. Again, you need to learn how to build chords and understand how they are named.

Just read this 20Tigers's post. It should explain everything about building chords:

Quote by 20Tigers
The name of the chord has absolutely nothing to do with the key in which you are playing (with one exception*). It also isn't really based on the scale of the root of the chord you are playing. The name of the chord is solely based on the intervals in relation to the chord's root.

For example...if you are in the key of C and come across an Am6 it is common to assume that the sixth is minor because the Am scale has a b6 but this is wrong. We are not naming the chord in relation to any scale off the root. A 6 is a major sixth interval we name the chord in relation to the intervals from the root of the chord. An Am6 is A C E F#.

Here are a couple of tips for chord names...
Triads

There are four triads made up of stacking major or minor intervals as described in this picture:


The triads are named in accordance with the intervals in the chord. The perfect fifth is taken for granted and the major and minor triads are named after the third interval in the chord. When the fifth is no longer perfect it becomes the characteristic note in the chord and the triad is named accordingly. The augmented and diminished triads are named according to the fifth interval.

Then come the seventh chords which are formed by stacking another major or minor third on top of those triads.

Seventh chords are named with two parts - the triad and the seventh. For this to work the triad is assumed major and the seventh is assumed minor. This way if we see minor in the chord name we know it is referring to the triad since the seventh is assumed minor anyway. Similarly if we see major in the name of the seventh chord we know it is referring to the seventh interval since the triad is assumed to be major.


Sevenths built from Augmented Triads

Aug Triad + Maj 3rd = Augmented Triad (a Major 3rd on top of a #5 will give a #7. Since the #7 is enharmonic with the octave of the root the result is a doubling of the root note and it's still just an augmented triad. (1 3 #5 #7 is enharmonic with 1 3 #5 8).

Aug Triad + min 3rd = Augmented Major Seventh, or Maj7#5 (1 3 #5 7)

Sevenths built from Major Triads

Major Triad + Major 3rd = Major 7th chord (1 3 5 7) - written as Cmaj7

Major Triad + min 3rd = Dominant 7 (1 3 5 b7) - written simply as C7

Sevenths built from Minor Triad

Minor Triad + Major 3rd = minor Major 7 (1 b3 5 7) - written as Cm/Maj7

Minor Triad + min 3rd = minor 7 (1 b3 5 b7) - written as Cm7

Sevenths built from Diminished Triad

Diminished Triad + Maj 3rd = half diminished 7th or minor 7 flat five (1 b3 b5 b7) - written as either CØ7 or more commonly Cm7b5

Diminished Triad + min 3rd = diminished 7th (1 b3 b5 bb7) - Cdim7 or Cᴼ7

Then you have more seventh chords which are not strictly constructed with major or minor thirds, they are altered seventh chords in that they are one of the above seventh chords but one or more of the intervals is altered. Some of these chords could be named as completely different chords that use the same notes (enharmonic),

Dominant seventh sharp 5 = 1 3 #5 b7 e.g. C7♯5
Diminished major seventh = 1 b3 b5 7 e.g. Cm/Maj7♭5 or Cdim/Maj7
Dominant seventh flat 5 = 1 3 b5 b7 e.g. C7♭5
Major seventh flat 5 = 1 3 b5 7 e.g. CMaj7♭5

Now this is a little bit redundant really because you will almost never use quite a few of those seventh chords. But moving along.

After you have your seventh chord you can do more than just alter notes. You can replace notes in the chord, add notes to a chord, or extend the seventh chord further.

Add Chords
An add chord is a triad with an added note. The added note is always assumed a major interval unless noted with a # or b symbol. The added note is usually notated with an interval outside the triad, for example a major triad is 1 3 5, a 2 would be inside the triad so we would not use the 2 but instead we would use 9 which is the same note an octave up. So if we had a C major triad (C E G) and we added a D note to that chord we would call it a Cadd9 chord.

Thus the add chords are
X6 (we don't need to call it an "add" chord because the 6 indicates that it is not a seventh chord since if the seventh were present it would be called a 13)

Xadd9

Xadd11

we could alter any of the added notes
Xadd#9 for example.

X could be any kind of triad. Am6 for example is an A minor triad with a major sixth (remember the added note is always assumed to be a major interval from the root)

Extended Chords
An extended chord is similar to an add chord but it is based on a seventh chord. The chord is extended past the seventh. The extension is always considered as a major interval unless otherwise noted. The added note is notated with an interval outside the seventh chord. An extended chord is always named by the highest extension and that highest extension always replaces the seven in the chord name.

So a CMaj7 that is extended to a 9th would be written as CMaj9. If it were extended to the 13 it would be called a CMaj13. The upper extension is always included in the chord and the lower extensions (any notes between the seventh and the upper extension) are optional. So a chord like CMaj13 could contain 1 3 5 7 9 11 13 - C E G B D F A but the 9 aand 11 are optional so even if the chord is only 1 3 5 7 13 - C E G B A it is still a CMaj13 chord.

So the extended chords are any seventh chord with a 9th 11th and/or 13th

Sus Chords
Sus chords are suspended chords. These chords replace the third with a second or fourth. So we use sus2 or sus4. If you just see "sus" then it is safe to assume it is a sus4 chord. This could apply to a triad or seventh.

G7sus4 for example would be G C D F (1 4 5 b7)
Csus2 would be C D G (1 2 5)


Once you have the chord name you can also alter notes within the chord by notating any note that is to be altered by noting it after the chord name.

You also have slash chords and inversions but I've already probably given you wayyy to much.

*The dominant seventh is the only chord that has a name relating to the scale in which it is found. This particular seventh chord is built on the fifth degree of the major scale. The fifth degree of the major scale is called the dominant. (the first scale degree is the tonic, the second is the supertonic, the third is the mediant, the fourth is the subdominant, the fifth is dominant, the sixth is the sub mediant, the seventh is the leading tone (sometimes subtonic) and the eighth is the octave. There are reasons behind each of these names but that's not important just now.)

When harmonizing the major scale to form seventh chords there is only one scale degree that yields a chord with a major triad and a minor seventh -this is the dominant or fifth scale degree. This is where the name for that type of seventh chord originates.

There is a lot of information here and I didn't go back and revise any of it to make sure it flowed or made sense so if it's too much let me know, if anything doesn't make sense then ask.

EDIT: Thanks to The4thHorseman for picking up my error.


Edit:

Quote by Boreesimo
1.) Do you mean a minor chord with a seventh and #11, or just the version of the chord that has a minor seventh, instead of a major seventh?
If you mean the first one, just voice a standard m7 chord and put the #11 on top of it. For the second, just use a dominant chord with the #11 on top.

2.) A traditional (and I've never come yet across any other variation) dominant chord is a major chord, with a minor 7th (flattened as an accidental in the major key, and from the standard raised 7th back into the minor key). Therefore although unique, it is still a major chord, as it is constructed with a major third. 'Add' chords are also constructed with a major third, thus making them major. However to take ninths for example, we can use them in a minor context too, so a Cm9 is the minor variant, C+9 is the major.

Hope that helps!

I'm not sure if you should call Cadd9 a C+9. Usually a "+" in the chord name means augmented so C+9 would be C augmented ninth chord - C E G# Bb D. Not completely sure though. But I would just call it Cadd9 not to confuse. Also, Cm9 also includes the minor 7th. If you want a minor add9 chord, it's called Cmadd9. The difference between Cmadd9 and Cm9 is that Cm9 is C Eb G Bb D and Cmadd9 is C Eb G D.

Add chords don't have a 7th in them. Normal 9th chords also have a 7th in them.

Also remember that the notes can be in whatever order and the chord name is the same. To be an add9 chord, you don't need to have the 9th an octave higher. The chord name doesn't indicate voicing.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

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Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Dec 11, 2013,
#6
Quote by nato955
Hello all. I am stumped right now, and any help will be greatly appreciated!

1) I have the Major 7#11 chord shape down, but I can't for the life of me find the minor 7#11 chord shape. It seems nonexistent, is there a reason for this?

THANK YOU!!!!


The 4th & 11 note are the same -- the most common use and name of the #4/#11 in a minor chord would be the Minor7b5 chord (#4 = b5) its the 7th chord in the harmonized major scale. Adding a true #11(NO Root or fifth - b3 b7 9 #11) to a minor chord would not sound good to most ears( example: D & D# note in a Bmi chord) unless your voice leading is planned carefully.

wolf
Last edited by wolflen at Dec 11, 2013,