#1
Hi guys, this has been bugging me for a while now, anytime i go to improvise or solo i always end up going back to the same old minor pentatonic scale which great for blues , but those G string bends (hehe) get a little tedious after a while, so what other scales could i/ should i start using and getting familiar with? I mainly play any kind of rock and little jazz and funk etc. im just loking to vary my style a little more. any tips would be greatly appreciated
Cheers
#2
Maybe you should start using your ears. Because to me it sounds like you are just playing licks your fingers are familiar with. You don't play what you would like to play and what you hear in your head. I know it's not really easy but you'll never learn it if you don't do it.

But yeah, learn the major scale. It's the "basic" scale.

Also, you can do lots of stuff with just pentatonic. It's all about how you use it. More scales isn't going to magically turn you into a great improviser.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#4
^^ agreed

mixolydian and dorian will add a little funky/jazzy sophistication while still using a fair number of the same notes and probably still working over the same progressions you're using minor pentatonic on.

Or even just the blues scale. actually try that one first. just one more note, the flat fifth. and bend the minor third slightly sharp to make it sound bluesy.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#5
If you learn the seven patterns of the major scale, you learn all the modes as well. I can go go into more detail but I don't want to complicate things. It's all the same pattern just shifted on the neck.

On a previous post I showed a boxed in version of the Guitar Grimoire, which is the major scale but in the lead version--same scale just shifted a little bit diagonally. You can go and look at the Guitar Grimoire and look at the patterns of all the modes and not only will you find its the same pattern just shifted but really a mode is just a different key of the Major. A good book to know when to use which mode is a Guitarists Guide to Scales Over Chords. I haven't done the exercises but it has a good explanation of mood and mode.

Another suggestion, is to break out of the pentatonic box by practicing diagonal movements. I do have a diagram of this for the major. There are two definite patterns to the pentatonic to move diagonally one involves a slide and the other doesn't. I found this from Alchemical Guitar. If you get the video, just ignore the first couple of lessons and dive into the pentatonic stuff. I don't highly recommend the video but it did teach me how to move out of the box of the Major.
#6
Quote by loucame
Hi guys, this has been bugging me for a while now, anytime i go to improvise or solo i always end up going back to the same old minor pentatonic scale which great for blues , but those G string bends (hehe) get a little tedious after a while, so what other scales could i/ should i start using and getting familiar with? I mainly play any kind of rock and little jazz and funk etc. im just loking to vary my style a little more. any tips would be greatly appreciated
Cheers


From this post, it sounds like you only know that minor pentatonic scale in a single hand position. Did you know there are five different hand positions you can play that same scale in?

Once you can play all five positions of the pentatonic scale, your playing will open up a lot because different positions lend themselves to different kinds of licks, even though it's still just the same 5 notes repeating.

Once you can play all five positions you can start playing the chord changes and using multiple pentatonic scales over a chord progression, then you can learn the diatonic scale, etc... but you have to walk before you can sprint.
#7
thanks guys, i'll play around with those scales and try out various positions, its helped alot!
#8
The major/minor pentatonic are the backbone of my playing. Train your ear and figure out how to add notes to the pentatonic that complement the solo by adding appropriate tension and resolution.
#9
Quote by onelightminute
From this post, it sounds like you only know that minor pentatonic scale in a single hand position. Did you know there are five different hand positions you can play that same scale in?

Once you can play all five positions of the pentatonic scale, your playing will open up a lot because different positions lend themselves to different kinds of licks, even though it's still just the same 5 notes repeating.

Or you could eschew bothering with positions at all and learn the intervals of the scale. Of course, then you'd also have to learn the notes of the fretboard -- BUT you should do that anyway. So, two birds, one stone.

To learn about intervals, use this lesson. (Then, keep in mind that the intervals of the minor pentatonic are 1, b3, 4, 5, b7; and the intervals of the major pentatonic are 1, 2, 3, 5, 6.) To learn the notes of the fretboard, use this other lesson.

Also, before someone tries to argue with me on the usefulness of box shapes/positions, you'll never convince me. Intervals are the way to go, imho. If you don't agree, fine. There's been too many pissing contests between me and other users about this, so don't bother.
#10
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Or you could eschew bothering with positions at all and learn the intervals of the scale. Of course, then you'd also have to learn the notes of the fretboard -- BUT you should do that anyway. So, two birds, one stone.

To learn about intervals, use this lesson. (Then, keep in mind that the intervals of the minor pentatonic are 1, b3, 4, 5, b7; and the intervals of the major pentatonic are 1, 2, 3, 5, 6.) To learn the notes of the fretboard, use this other lesson.

Also, before someone tries to argue with me on the usefulness of box shapes/positions, you'll never convince me. Intervals are the way to go, imho. If you don't agree, fine. There's been too many pissing contests between me and other users about this, so don't bother.

I think patterns are necessary for improvising, though. You don't have enough time to think of intervals and stuff when improvising. I would say learn both the intervals and the patterns.

And yes, I agree with crazysam that OP should learn the notes on the fretboard. It's a major pain in the ass, but worth it.
#11
...Man i know this one....been stuck there for like 8 years. ;-)

scales, up and down the neck and learn each and every note on the fretboard from 0-12 (just started that one a couple months ago and damned has it paid off...I´ll post the vids I used if you want)
I believe in god, jesus and the holy ghost.....or as i call them Angus, Kirk and Lemmy
#12
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Or you could eschew bothering with positions at all and learn the intervals of the scale. Of course, then you'd also have to learn the notes of the fretboard -- BUT you should do that anyway. So, two birds, one stone.


That sorta depends on your definition of "two birds" and "one stone". I'd say it's more like "two birds, two stones" It's good to know, but it's more work, too.

There's also the in-between option which is knowing the shapes, and also intervals, but not necessarily knowing the notes. And/Or knowing how to work out the notes, but not necessarily being able to instantaneously identify one if asked point blank.

I'd be the first to admit that not knowing the notes *at all* (or the intervals) is probably not helpful, and if you're only using the shapes as shapes and not really understanding what you're doing, that's not so great. But it's not a dichotomy, either, you can be at any point along the shapes -> notes continuum.

Quote by crazysam23_Atax

Also, before someone tries to argue with me on the usefulness of box shapes/positions, you'll never convince me. Intervals are the way to go, imho. If you don't agree, fine. There's been too many pissing contests between me and other users about this, so don't bother.


I'm not trying to convince you, I'm providing the TS with counterarguments to your point.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Dec 18, 2013,
#13
I personally like mixing some scales for improvisation, my favorites are hexatonic blues minor, wich is basically the minor pentatonic plus a tritone, phrygian mode wich has all minor and perfects intervals, pretty dark. But actaully sometimes you just need to forget scales and feel what interval sound good besides all scales
#14
In regards to the response to my post and the other ones that followed.

Give yourself multiple paths to success. Know the five hand positions. Know the sound of all the intervals, including ninths, tenths, etc. and be able to reliable finger them on various strings. Know all the names of the notes on the neck. Know the circle of fifths. Know the arpeggio positions and see how they correlate with different scales. Know everything you can.

What's stupid is to eschew any particular piece of the puzzle because it doesn't fit with the pieces you have already put together.
#15
Quote by Elintasokas
You don't have enough time to think of intervals and stuff when improvising.

Yea you do.
#16
Quote by Elintasokas
You don't have enough time to think of intervals and stuff when improvising.

Yes, you do. Use your ears. Yeah, don't sit there and think, "Next, I'm going to play a b3". But if you train your ears a bit, then your ears/brain will allow you to pick intervals that allow the sounds you want. Learn what going from 1 to 5 sounds like (and visa versa); do that with every interval. Then, learn to do it with a backing track. When your ears/brain know intervals in and out, then you'll be improvising with intervals subconsciously. No, it's not easy. But it IS worth it.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Dec 18, 2013,
#17
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Yes, you do. Use your ears. Yeah, don't sit there and think, "Next, I'm going to play a b3". But if you train your ears a bit, then your ears/brain will allow you to pick intervals that allow the sounds you want. Learn what going from 1 to 5 sounds like (and visa versa); do that with every interval. Then, learn to do it with a backing track. When your ears/brain know intervals in and out, then you'll be improvising with intervals subconsciously. No, it's not easy. But it IS worth it.

Oh, I have never even had to think like that. I've always just naturally heard all the notes before I play them. Although not 100% accurately everytime, so I guess I could practice it a bit.
#18
Quote by Elintasokas
Oh, I have never even had to think like that. I've always just naturally heard all the notes before I play them. Although not 100% accurately everytime, so I guess I could practice it a bit.

Ok, then what's the issue? lol
#19
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Ok, then what's the issue? lol

There is none I guess. I just thought the guy meant thinking like:

"Okay I'm gonna play a P5 next. Now a minor third. Perfect fourth", etc
#20
Quote by Elintasokas
There is none I guess. I just thought the guy meant thinking like:

"Okay I'm gonna play a P5 next. Now a minor third. Perfect fourth", etc

Nah it's only like that during the practice/training or whatever you want to call it. Once it's internalized then it's just about the sounds.
#21
Quote by macashmack
Nah it's only like that during the practice/training or whatever you want to call it. Once it's internalized then it's just about the sounds.

Mhmm. Music is just rhythmic, planned sound. So...why not think in sound?