Poll: which?
Poll Options
View poll results: which?
Ibanez RGIR-20FE
1 9%
Epiphone Les Paul Standard Black Beauty
4 36%
Other-
6 55%
Voters: 11.
#1
This is an SOS thread cause i am running out of time until Christmas. sorry if this thread belongs to another category of the forum but i wanted to ask something . I am planning to pick an electric guitar so i would like you to give me some advice. My 2 choices are:

1)Epiphone Les Paul Standard Black Royale
or
2)Ibanez RGIR-20FE.

Some of you would think that they are completely different guitars. So here's the deal. I like metal music. But i like playing blues, too. So which one should i get? My first choice was the ibanez. Will i be satisfied with that ibanez as about to the blues part?
My metal styles are several: Maiden, SOAD, Metallica, Amon Amarth, Opeth, BLS, Black Sabbath, Draconian, Rotting Christ, Epica etc.
And my bluesy/rock tastes are: gary moore, bb king, acdc, deep purple, zeppelin etc.

What to choose? Which one is more versatile????
The amp will probably be a peavey vypyr vip1.

PS1: If the Ibanez is a good choice, what would you say between RGIR-20FE and RGIR-20E?? They are exactly the same, just the one has an Edge Pro Zero tremolo. What should i choose? Is it a good tremolo or is it another Floyd bullshit?

PS2: If the epiphone is the better choice, is there any other epiphone better than this to a price range up to $600(max)?

Please answer if you know anything according to everything posted.
Last edited by steliosk3 at Dec 13, 2013,
#2
The Ibanez Iron Labels have active pickups if I recall correctly. Not sure how the Vypyr VIP would react to that, but I'd imagine it will do so poorly, as most modeling amps weren't really designed for use with EMGs.

Out of the choices you gave, I'd go with the Epiphone. However, I also have to highly reccommend looking outside of your three options - the Ibanez S series is also very nice, as are the RGs without active pickups.

As for a better Epiphone within the price range, maybe look off-brand? I've heard good things about Agile, and if we were to focus more on metal there's also the LTD EC series.
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Last edited by PsiGuy60 at Dec 13, 2013,
#3
Quote by PsiGuy60
The Ibanez Iron Labels have active pickups if I recall correctly. Not sure how the Vypyr VIP would react to that, but I'd imagine it will do so poorly, as most modeling amps weren't really designed for use with EMGs.


Is that thing about the pickups true? Lots of say it is a myth. Are the DiMarzios in SIR70FD actives too? Until now i thought that the only difference is the Battery and the Volume between actives and passives.
#4
Quote by steliosk3
Is that thing about the pickups true? Lots of say it is a myth. Are the DiMarzios in SIR70FD actives too? Until now i thought that the only difference is the Battery and the Volume between actives and passives.


Active pickups aren't designed to be used with modeling amps - modern actives are designed to drive an amplifier pretty hard. On a tube amp, this can be good because tube amps generally break up nicely. On a solid-state amp, it produces diode clipping - a harsh sound to many people.

If you have a lot of headroom - say, a 70 watt Roland JC - it can be used to get a clearer tone without clipping. On your 20-watt modeling amp? Not so much. You'd have to roll the volume of the guitar down, which kinda defeats the purpose of having active pickups.

The DiMarzios in the SIR70FD aren't actives, by the way - I don't think DiMarzio even do active pickups.
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#5
if you don't need a trem then the LP will cover the bases pretty well. there will be some compromises when going to those extremes sound wise but much of that can fall on your amp. I use a strat and a BC Rich Eagle (the tamest shape of the original bc rich guitars). most might think using a BC Rich to play old style blues is crazy but it works fine. point being it's not as much the guitar as the player and the amp used (or how the tone of amp is dialed in).
#6
Id take the LP but I'd get an Agile. Agile makes amazing(ly cheap) guitars. Better than epi. That would leave a lot more money for a better amp.
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#7
PRS SE single cut trem

The Agile suggestion is a good one also so you can get a better amp. At least get an amp with a 12" speaker (VIP 2, ect)
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#8
Quote by steliosk3


What to choose? Which one is more versatile????
The amp will probably be a peavey vypyr vip1.

PS1: If the Ibanez is a good choice, what would you say between RGIR-20FE and RGIR-20E?? They are exactly the same, just the one has an Edge Pro Zero tremolo. What should i choose? Is it a good tremolo or is it another Floyd bullshit?

PS2: If the epiphone is the better choice, is there any other epiphone better than this to a price range up to $600(max)?

Please answer if you know anything according to everything posted.


These are fundamentally different guitars.

The Epiphone's scale, body shape, number of frets (22 med jumbo), clunky neck heel and relatively low output pickups are going to push you one way, while the Ibanez, with a longer scale, more comfortable body shape, 24 jumbo frets, smoothed down neck heel and active pickups are going to push you a whole different way.

I'm assuming you're somewhere in the EU, which means that the Agiles are largely unavailable to you.

I'm also assuming that you're pretty new to guitar, since these choices are so wide-spectrum. "Versatility" lies in between the two.

I'm a long-time LP fan, but here are the negatives: The body is heavy and not particularly comfortable to play. There's no rib relief cut, there's no forearm contour, neck-body join is clunky and uncomfortable and you often find yourself having to rotate your hand to get anywhere near the upper frets. I don't care for a 2V 2T setup, especially if, when both are selected, rolling off the volume on one pickup affects the volume of the whole guitar. Worse, I generally want a Volume control closer to the bridge/bridge pickup. The short scale plus the neck humbucker tends to make low end stuff sound a bit muddy. The good news: the small, dense body promotes overall guitar sustain (as opposed to the kind of gain compression sustain you get from electronics and standing next to the amp <G> and you get some pretty distinctive sounds from the overall combination.

My most recent LPs are slight departures from the standard LP mold; neck-through construction with smooth neck heels and a rib contour, Floyd Rose trems, flatter radius fretboards (14" and 16"), jumbo frets, 24 fret necks (on a couple of them). I've got an Agile Custom order in the works that will include all of that plus a 25.5" scale and (possibly, assuming Kurt at Rondo approves), a control setup similar to that on the old Gibson M-III. While it may look like an LP to an audience, it will have moved a lot closer to the Ibanez in overall design.

I've been spending more time on a guitar closer to the Ibanez in design -- bolt neck (which I'm not fond of, usually), same shape, 24-fret neck, jumbo frets, 16" radius, Floyd, slightly hot but passive pickups, a clean control setup with an MV, MT and a five-way, with the Master Volume within pinky swell reach. The negatives: With a Floyd you'll need to develop a "system" regarding string changes (it's not difficult or time-consuming once you do that). If you've got small hands or short fingers/arms, you'll be moving greater distances on the fretboard. These particular active pickups are designed for metal (you should know that active pickups, across the board, were actually designed originally to be far more versatile than how they're being used by the metal crowd); they're not particularly versatile, though they can be "made to fit" some of the other genres. The tone options on these, however, are not inspiring. And you've got to change batteries. Leave your guitar plugged in and you have a dead battery.

BTW, the trem on the Ibanez is just fine. Surprisingly, MOST Floyd-alikes these days are. In the old days, there was the original Floyd Rose and there were some cheap junk copies. These days, even the cheapest copies are amazingly good, thanks in part to better manufacturing methods and to the removal of licensing fees (the patent expired).
Last edited by dspellman at Dec 15, 2013,
#9
Quote by PsiGuy60
Active pickups aren't designed to be used with modeling amps - modern actives are designed to drive an amplifier pretty hard. On a tube amp, this can be good because tube amps generally break up nicely. On a solid-state amp, it produces diode clipping - a harsh sound to many people.

If you have a lot of headroom - say, a 70 watt Roland JC - it can be used to get a clearer tone without clipping. On your 20-watt modeling amp? Not so much. You'd have to roll the volume of the guitar down, which kinda defeats the purpose of having active pickups.


Just an aside about active pickups. These comments are true ONLY about active pickups designed specifically for metal, such as the EMG 81/60/85, SD Blackouts, etc.

There are other active pickups out there (this forum's users mostly don't know about them) that are/were designed for wider tonal options. I have a set of Bartolini actives that are amazing; they include multi-way treble boosts, enhanced tone controls and they even make a Varitone-like tone selector sound great. Carvin has a preamp setup that can be used with passive pickups (EMGs just have the preamps in the pickup body itself, otherwise it's a similar setup) that will take the same four 2V 2T ("tone" knobs are just treble rolloffs) and give you a master volume, a master bass, master treble and a blend knob. The master bass and master treble will, at the detented "5" position, give you something similar to what you get if you dime all controls on a passive. But you get an active boost and cut of 15 dB on either side with the active controls with both treble and BASS. And the blend knob allows you to choose how much of each pickup you want when both are selected, without losing volume on the guitar. This also makes a phase switch a lot cooler to use, and active controls turn coil tap controls into extremely usable choices.
#10
Quote by PsiGuy60
Active pickups aren't designed to be used with modeling amps - modern actives are designed to drive an amplifier pretty hard. On a tube amp, this can be good because tube amps generally break up nicely. On a solid-state amp, it produces diode clipping - a harsh sound to many people.


This is normally true, but the Vypyrs are a special case - they're not modelers in the traditional sense, meaning that the preamp isn't just a DSP. It's pretty much an analog signal from input to output. So they handle actives with no problem at all. I have a Vypyr Tube 120H and a Vypyr VIP-3 and my EC-1000 with EMGs has never had a problem with either at any volume, compared to any of my other guitars.


That out of the way.


TS, where in the world are you located? Are there any stores near you you can get to to try some stuff out?

The most important aspect of choosing a guitar is choosing a guitar that looks and feels right to you. Because the rest is (almost) all up to your amp and you. If you want to play blues on a modern superstrat, your guitar isn't going to turn to you and say "No, I cant' do that.". You can get good tone for pretty much anything out of any guitar, as long as your amp is right for the sound you're going for, and you can actually play it right.

Second major point: do you want a trem, or not. This is a very important distinction to make when discussing a guitar with a double locking trems. If you don't know, this is the shortcut way to find out: Will you be changing tunings at all on this guitar? If the answer is yes, then you should not get a double locking trem.

That said, I saw someone mention the SE Singlecut Trem, and something with a single locking trem like that is fine as long as you're not changing tunings drastically. They're a good middle ground option, though they have far less range than a double locking trem. It's all about compromise.
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