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#1
I found this video pretty interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzKzu86Agg0#t=142

For those who don't know, Mike Rowe has been rallying for trades as an alternative for going into debt for College.

I agree with much of what he says. I recommend watching that video or at least bits and pieces, or the beginning.

I gotta admit, sometimes I fantasize about quitting uni and taking up some sort of trade, or at least learn one as a back-up. I know a guy who can do loads of things with his hands and I find that shit mind blowing.

Also, I'm in the UK, and I've got to shag lots of grandmas just to find a decent electrician. God. Damn.

Discuss.
#4
Quote by captainsnazz
He really does look like a guy who would be opposed to higher education.


He's college educated. And an awesome dude.
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#6
I wish I had gone in to a trade and not gone in to debt for college. Very badly. The people I know in trades make more money than I do and didn't have any debt to pay off. Plus they can help friends build decks 'n shit and get free beer.
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#7
Quote by captainsnazz
He really does look like a guy who would be opposed to higher education.


I suppose he's not well known outside the US, but the guy is the soundest cvnt you could imagine.
#8
raise the cost of university, increase funding for public education. basically, make high school sufficient to make people well-rounded individuals, and prevent degrees from becoming undervalued pieces of shit that baristas hang on their walls.
#9
Trades as in going to BOCES and getting a certificate to be a mechanic or some culinary thing? Yeah, in America at least that has been your best bet at getting a decent job without spending years and tens of thousands of dollars on college for a good long while now.
#10
Quote by Philip_pepper
I suppose he's not well known outside the US, but the guy is the soundest cvnt you could imagine.


Yeah he's the coolest famous person ever. I'd drink a beer with him
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#11
That's cool if people want to go into a trade or are satisfied with the money and don't really care what they do. There aren't really any trades I would be interested in or be good at anyway
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#12
Quote by progdude93
raise the cost of university, increase funding for public education. basically, make high school sufficient to make people well-rounded individuals, and prevent degrees from becoming undervalued pieces of shit that baristas hang on their walls.

So your solution is to essentially limit post-secondary education to people born into the upper class? Yeah I can't see a single problem with that one buddy, rock solid plan. Meritocracy? Pfft.

Did you really need somebody to tell you that learning a trade is probably a more valuable investment than spending 80 grand to take liberal arts classes? There's no real initial investment anywhere near the scale of university, you get paid during your apprenticeship and there's a pretty massive demand for your skills when you are done your apprenticeship with respect to most trades. The money is also better than what a lot of undergrads are going to be looking at if they even do get a job. Hell in Ontario you are probably better off as an electrician than a teacher (and our teachers get paid lol).

Obviously it isn't universally applicable. Engineers, lawyers, doctors, things of that nature are worth the investment.

Fun fact: My dad is an electrician and his friend is an eye surgeon (like I'm going to google the official title). Eye surgeon dude didn't catch up with my dad's earnings until his mid 50's. & by that point my dad had paid his dues and had a legitimately comfy 6 figure job.

That being said I want to be a teacher fk my dad parents just dont understand
#13
I'll be graduating from university in the spring (BSc in Biochemistry) and even though I have the academic achievement to pursue graduate studies, I've lost most of my interest in the discipline. Picking up a trade (preferably as an electrician, and preferably in the Industrial sector) is probably my best bet to make sic wads yo.

At least until my knees/back say fuck this lol and I go back to get a degree in engineering.
#14
Quote by Thrashtastic15
So your solution is to essentially limit post-secondary education to people born into the upper class? Yeah I can't see a single problem with that one buddy, rock solid plan. Meritocracy? Pfft.


this is a perfect demonstration of how ignorant you are. i don't think you understand the vast amount of aid money given to the poor, which is unsurprising given that you're about 5 brain cells away from frittata status. it's the lower middle class that gets shafted. i'm also completely okay with increasing merit scholarships.

thanks for your input.
#15
Quote by progdude93
raise the cost of university,


Fuuuuuuuck no
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#16
>raise cost

hahahahaha
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#18
Higher education isn't for getting a job, mostly, so it's a false comparison.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#19
Quote by progdude93
what, in your opinions, are the downsides to raising the cost of university?


Shirley you can't be serious
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#20
Quote by Dreadnought
Shirley you can't be serious


I'm curious if you have a legitimate opinion based on research and fact, or if your response is what I expect, namely a stupid and emotive response based on nothing but your own expectations
#21
Downside 1: Increasing the price of university increases the likelihood of class stratification.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#22
Quote by progdude93
I'm curious if you have a legitimate opinion based on research and fact, or if your response is what I expect, namely a stupid and emotive response based on nothing but your own expectations


lol, wow
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#23
Quote by Todd Hart
Downside 1: Increasing the price of university increases the likelihood of class stratification.


not if the country doing it has one of the most comprehensive student aid funds in the world and throws money at poor people to go to school. what it ACTUALLY does is increase the value of a degree by ensuring that the vast majority of people who go to college actually SHOULD go to college.

Quote by Dreadnought
lol, wow


So far my expectations are holding true sorry, but conventional wisdom doesn't count for much, sweetheart.
#24
I go to like a cheap ass one and it's 3000 a semester. So yeah, that's ridiculous enough. You're basically saying "lets give college kids more debt!"
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
#26
Quote by progdude93
not if the country doing it has one of the most comprehensive student aid funds in the world and throws money at poor people to go to school. what it ACTUALLY does is increase the value of a degree by ensuring that the vast majority of people who go to college actually SHOULD go to college.


So far my expectations are holding true sorry, but conventional wisdom doesn't count for much, sweetheart.


You should realllllllly take yourself less seriously.

also lol @ your apparent argument which boils down to eliminating financial aid and raising price ceilings, doing effectively nothing except increase debt and eliminate a certain amount of lower-class incoming students.

Brilliant.
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#27
@brad not necessarily more debt, but definitely more recourse to pay off said debt

Quote by Dreadnought
You should realllllllly take yourself less seriously.

also lol @ your apparent argument which boils down to eliminating financial aid and raising price ceilings, doing effectively nothing except increase debt and eliminate a certain amount of lower-class incoming students.

Brilliant.


no, my argument is to INCREASE financial aid. also, i'm not talking about raising price ceilings, i'm talking about raising price FLOORS. whose posts have you been reading?

also, why would it do nothing but raise debt and eliminate lower-class students? something ain't true cos you say it is, so what is your logic here?

Quote by Thrill-house
The high cost is pretty much why I never went to college.


well, i'm not saying "let's keep everything the way it is but raise the price of college."


also, you guys don't seem to grasp the difference between price and cost. the price will be higher. but the COST would not be much higher for those who MERIT student aid.
Last edited by progdude93 at Dec 13, 2013,
#28
If we had implemented your ingenious solution, my wife's college experience would have differed in one of two ways:

1) She couldn't have gone to college at all because we'd be unwilling to shoulder the burden of increased tuition AS WELL AS decreased financial aid for "the poor"

2) She would have gone and we'd have, easily arguably, double the debt that we're already going to have for her Social Work/Welfare degree

Wow, what a brave new intellectual world of collegiates who are attending university because they "should" that we live in.
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#29
Quote by progdude93
not if the country doing it has one of the most comprehensive student aid funds in the world and throws money at poor people to go to school. what it ACTUALLY does is increase the value of a degree by ensuring that the vast majority of people who go to college actually SHOULD go to college.


Except for the fact that your student aid fund will quickly end up either in debt (if it's private) or costing the government a great deal more due to the fact that students take a long time to pay of their debt, if they ever pay it off at all. This is exactly the stupid trap the Tory government here just fell in to - they doubled or tripled the prices unis can charge and so now are paying double or triple the price to put people through uni, but with the economy as low as it is the odds of those students paying off their debt any time soon, or at all, is significantly lower.

Saying that universities should be the provision of those who 'should' be there is just another way of imposing a class system, especially given how necessarily vague your criteria would have to be.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#30
Quote by progdude93
@brad not necessarily more debt, but definitely more recourse to pay off said debt


no, my argument is to INCREASE financial aid. also, i'm not talking about raising price ceilings, i'm talking about raising price FLOORS. whose posts have you been reading?

also, why would it do nothing but raise debt and eliminate lower-class students? something ain't true cos you say it is, so what is your logic here?


well, i'm not saying "let's keep everything the way it is but raise the price of college."


also, you guys don't seem to grasp the difference between price and cost. the price will be higher. but the COST would not be much higher for those who MERIT student aid.


I'm sorry I can't hear you over

i don't think you understand the vast amount of aid money given to the poor, which is unsurprising given that you're about 5 brain cells away from frittata status. it's the lower middle class that gets shafted.


Those damn poors. Stealing all our degrees
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#31
Quote by Dreadnought
If we had implemented your ingenious solution, my wife's college experience would have differed in one of two ways:

1) She couldn't have gone to college at all because we'd be unwilling to shoulder the burden of increased tuition AS WELL AS decreased financial aid for "the poor"

2) She would have gone and we'd have, easily arguably, double the debt that we're already going to have for her Social Work/Welfare degree

Wow, what a brave new intellectual world of collegiates who are attending university because they "should" that we live in.


1. lol, how many ways can I possibly say that I'm not only not talking about decreasing student aid, but INCREASING it?

2. OR, if she was in a field that required a college education, and she MERITED a scholarship, she'd have paid the same or less than she already has.

seriously bro, whose posts are you reading?

and PS, people who have no interest in pursuing careers that require a degree SHOULD NOT go to college. especially if they get any form of student aid. they're just making a degree more worthless and more expensive for everyone else.

Quote by Dreadnought
I'm sorry I can't hear you over

Those damn poors. Stealing all our degrees


Stupid? Check. Emotive? Check. You have exceeded my expectations.
Last edited by progdude93 at Dec 13, 2013,
#32
Quote by progdude93


seriously bro, whose posts are you reading?


A self-important moron's.

Everything you've said has been garbage. And drop the "lol you dun make coherent argoomentz" bullshit because several demonstrably intelligent and educated people have disagreed with your either 1) unintelligible or 2) legitimately retarded plan of action.

EDIT: lol I can't deal with this. You're unbearable
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#34
A self-important moron's.

Everything you've said has been garbage. And drop the "lol you dun make coherent argoomentz" bullshit because several demonstrably intelligent and educated people have disagreed with your either 1) unintelligible or 2) legitimately reta/i]rded plan of action.

Unintelligible? What part of "raise tuition, raise merit scholarships" has been unintelligible? Again, you must be reading someone else's posts.

If you deny that there is a legitimate problem from hundreds of thousands of people saddling themselves with tens of thousands of dollars of debt when they don't even need to go to college to pursue their chosen careers, you're a bigger moron than I thought. If you don't think it's a problem that jobs that don't require degrees are choosing people with irrelevant degrees over people without them because so many goddamn people have degrees when they don't need them and therefore denying lower-class people who did not go to school because they didn't need to, you're delusional.

Seriously. All you've done is say, "No, your idea's stupid because of *insert blatant misrepresentation of my opinion here* and because of piece of conventional wisdom X without any evidentiary support."

Quote by Rossenrot
Ha, progdude thinks funding is the problem with our public school system.


Where did I say that
#35
So it's pretty much the self-deportation of the education system
“Just to sum up: I would do various things very quickly.” - Donald Trump
#36
Quote by progdude93

Where did I say that


Right aboouuuuuuuuuuuuuuut here

increase funding for public education. basically, make high school sufficient to make people well-rounded individuals
#37
Quote by progdude93
If you deny that there is a legitimate problem from hundreds of thousands of people saddling themselves with tens of thousands of dollars of debt when they don't even need to go to college to pursue their chosen careers, you're a bigger moron than I thought. If you don't think it's a problem that jobs that don't require degrees are choosing people with irrelevant degrees over people without them because so many goddamn people have degrees when they don't need them and therefore denying lower-class people who did not go to school because they didn't need to, you're delusional.

Seriously. All you've done is say, "No, your idea's stupid because of *insert blatant misrepresentation of my opinion here* and because of piece of conventional wisdom X without any evidentiary support."


Do as I say, not as I do.

Also, if you're going to increase the cost of education and the amount of financial aid then all you will end up with is a system where the government wastes more money every time a student doesn't pay off their debt.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#38
i've been through 4 years of university. not in debt, but i've been through the school system: I wish I'd gone into trades some days.
#39
Progdude has insta-amnesia for all of his posts

EDIT: He must be an Ayn Rand fan. The bad kind of Ayn Rand fan. I consider myself the good kind
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Last edited by Dreadnought at Dec 13, 2013,
#40
"If you deny that there is a legitimate problem from hundreds of thousands of people saddling themselves with tens of thousands of dollars of debt when they don't even need to go to college to pursue their chosen careers, you're a bigger moron than I thought. If you don't think it's a problem that jobs that don't require degrees are choosing people with irrelevant degrees over people without them because so many goddamn people have degrees when they don't need them, therefore denying lower-class people who did not go to school because they didn't need to, you're delusional."
-me 5 minutes ago

I should add that low-class people are far less likely to go to college when they don't need to than middle or upper class people. So people with irrelevant qualifications (because they were more likely to go to college for no reason) are getting jobs over these people from poor backgrounds who took the smart approach of not wasting 4+ years of time, as well as student aid money (and/or loans that the government needly subsidized for them) that the government gives them.


If there were fewer people clogging up the education system demanding student aid when they didn't need it, there would be less student debt, there would be more student aid money to give out per student, and those who deserved to go to college would more easily be able to afford it.

What part of this do you dislike?

Quote by Rossenrot
Right aboouuuuuuuuuuuuuuut here


You were claiming I said funding is the only problem with public education. What I actually said was that funding is A problem.
Last edited by progdude93 at Dec 13, 2013,
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