#3
neither, both those terms are meaningless in the greater scheme of things.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#4
Quote by GoldenGuitar
I would say probably beginner. :P


lol beginner. beginner is when you are playing sh!t teir songs like wonderwall lol
#5
Quote by steven seagull
neither, both those terms are meaningless in the greater scheme of things.


wat do you mean?
#6
I think in general the terms beginner/intermediate/advanced are applied to technical prowess.


Unfortunately this system means every metal song played at 200bpm running through easy scales is considered "advanced"


In the big scheme of things those terms are meaningless because a good musician doenst need to rely on only quick riffs and stupid stretches Oo i suppose that was his point, playing a song at 3x speed and adding gallops? doesnt really make the song "advanced", it just makes it faster than most people care to play.

/e that said its probably somewhere in between intermediate/advanced from the way i listen to it, the chords dont sound strange to me, but its pretty quick, and to play it properly with all the accents and rhythm right it would probably take quite some time. I imagine I could play it decent if i had a good tab in a week or so, but i play alot of fingerstyle, and i consider myself a beginner, maybe intermediate on a good day Oo.
Last edited by blunderwonder at Dec 14, 2013,
#7
I don't know what you're comparing it to. I would say it's pretty beginner when it comes to Classical guitar, though.
#8
Quote by blunderwonder
I think in general the terms beginner/intermediate/advanced are applied to technical prowess.


Unfortunately this system means every metal song played at 200bpm running through easy scales is considered "advanced"


In the big scheme of things those terms are meaningless because a good musician doenst need to rely on only quick riffs and stupid stretches Oo i suppose that was his point, playing a song at 3x speed doesnt really make the song "advanced", it just makes it faster than most people care to play.



I completely agree with that actually. In fact i think playing metal that quickly was too easy so i switched to playing spanish/classical guitar lol
#9
Quote by Morphogenesis26
I don't know what you're comparing it to. I would say it's pretty beginner when it comes to Classical guitar, though.


I'm comparing it to modern guitar
#11
Ive listened to quite a bit of carlos barbosa lima, and a few other guys, so i know classical guitar can quickly get ridiculously hard to play, but i dont consider many of those songs even possible for most intermediate/advanced guitarists to play, theyre at another level entirely. For an intermediate guitarist, i think classical gas is probably a good song to go at, but it would take a very long time for them to get it right.

Then again it can be pretty deceptive, i thought for a long time i wouldnt get elliott smiths "angeles" or "tomorrow tomorrow" right, and theyre plenty possible even for me, and like i said im not that great, so when compared to "classical" guitar, it could very well be easier than im making it out to be Oo.
#12
Those terms are pretty subjective and really don't tell anything about the level of the song. They just tell about the level of the guitarist who is trying to play it - if he can't play it and thinks he's an intermediate guitarist, he will rate it "advanced". And if it feels easy to play and he thinks he's an intermediate guitarist, he would rate it "intermediate" or maybe even "beginner". But what's the definition of "beginner", "intermediate" and "advanced"? They really don't tell anything. The only thing it tells you is if you think you are an advanced guitarist, you would expect to be able to play advanced songs. But it has a lot to do with how you rate yourself and how people have rated the song. And your rating of yourself may be different from people's rating of the song (I mean, people's definition of "beginner" may be different from your definition of "beginner").

My point is, the terms are subjective so there's no right or wrong answer.

IMO the song doesn't look that easy to play so I wouldn't really rate it "beginner" (and to me beginner stuff is basic techniques, basic chords, barre chords, that kind of stuff - I would put bands like AC/DC in that category). But that's just me, and I didn't try to play the song.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#13
Quote by zsezse4
lol beginner. beginner is when you are playing sh!t teir songs like wonderwall lol


Firstly, you'd be one of the few people to call that song "shit". Secondly would you mind uploading a video/soundclip of you playing the song in full? I want to know if you can play it right.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#14
I'd call it intermediate, but there are ways some people play it that I would call advanced.

IMO simple chord strumming with all major/minor open chords and learning a few simple scale shapes is beginner.

Anything after that; alternating pick patterns, learning more complex scales, using different chord positions (whilst understanding them musically) and adding riffs to your playing is what I'd call intermediate.

Not sure what I'd count as advanced though..

I'd say that this an advanced version of classical gas though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S33tWZqXhnk
Last edited by EddYerb at Dec 15, 2013,
#15
Quote by AlanHB
Firstly, you'd be one of the few people to call that song "shit". Secondly would you mind uploading a video/soundclip of you playing the song in full? I want to know if you can play it right.



Its just so overplayed by people its irritating. Its not that its an entirely sh!t song its just played to much, and upload me playing which song? classical gas or wonderwall?
#16
Quote by EddYerb
I'd call it intermediate, but there are ways some people play it that I would call advanced.

IMO simple chord strumming with all major/minor open chords and learning a few simple scale shapes is beginner.

Anything after that; alternating pick patterns, learning more complex scales, using different chord positions (whilst understanding them musically) and adding riffs to your playing is what I'd call intermediate.

Not sure what I'd count as advanced though..

I'd say that this an advanced version of classical gas though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S33tWZqXhnk



I'd agree with that one lol.
#17
Quote by zsezse4
Its just so overplayed by people its irritating. Its not that its an entirely sh!t song its just played to much, and upload me playing which song? classical gas or wonderwall?


Wonderwall. Also stop double posting. If you want to add more to your post, use the edit button and add more to your post.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#18
I watched this ivan something, he had a very odd name, guy was playing crazy in a weird tuning with the capo like 1/2 on lol, stuff just amazes me how good people get at guitar. I look at it beginner/intermediate/advanced in terms of what 95% of players can play.

Its like i know how to ski/snoboard, maybe do a 360 or a 180, slide around on the boxes - and bust my face now and then, but then im watching this thing on tv today, guys doign 1280 double leftsided roundhouse x-something grab japan hold blah blah with a double backflip in between, i mean the name by itself is baffling, and doing it is just south of impossible. The guys tear their acl's and have ankle surgery 6 times before the age of 24, and they just keep going. Its no surprise to me there are types of people who get well passed things i would consider "advanced"

When will they add guitar to the olympics... some of the things people do are just like that gymnastics thing with the high/low bar, where they swing back and forth doing crazy stuff. Some of that stuff, just too far outside my purview to even atempt :P
#19
Quote by AlanHB
Wonderwall. Also stop double posting. If you want to add more to your post, use the edit button and add more to your post.



Wonderwall is just a few chords with an easy chorus. Who CANT play it? anyways I have anything to record with yet but I ordered one the other day so it should be here in a few days. hopefully.

Quote by blunderwonder
I watched this ivan something, he had a very odd name, guy was playing crazy in a weird tuning with the capo like 1/2 on lol, stuff just amazes me how good people get at guitar. I look at it beginner/intermediate/advanced in terms of what 95% of players can play.

Its like i know how to ski/snoboard, maybe do a 360 or a 180, slide around on the boxes - and bust my face now and then, but then im watching this thing on tv today, guys doign 1280 double leftsided roundhouse x-something grab japan hold blah blah with a double backflip in between, i mean the name by itself is baffling, and doing it is just south of impossible. The guys tear their acl's and have ankle surgery 6 times before the age of 24, and they just keep going. Its no surprise to me there are types of people who get well passed things i would consider "advanced"

When will they add guitar to the olympics... some of the things people do are just like that gymnastics thing with the high/low bar, where they swing back and forth doing crazy stuff. Some of that stuff, just too far outside my purview to even atempt :P



I know how you feel. You will get better the more you practice. If you practice every day in a few years you should be close to their level if you really try.
Last edited by zsezse4 at Dec 15, 2013,
#20
Quote by zsezse4
Wonderwall is just a few chords with an easy chorus. Who CANT play it? anyways I have anything to record with yet but I ordered one the other day so it should be here in a few days. hopefully.


Oh you'd be surprised. You can record with your phone and most still cameras have recording functions.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#21
Quote by AlanHB
Firstly, you'd be one of the few people to call that song "shit". Secondly would you mind uploading a video/soundclip of you playing the song in full? I want to know if you can play it right.
I must me the only person in the free world who has never knowingly hear, "Wonderwall". So, I set off to Amazon to rectify that situation.

Here's where it gets strange. I found 715 MP3 entries, using the search term,"Wonderwall".

Anyway, this version, (I hope it's the same song), done with an acoustic piano, seems pretty decent: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-music&field-keywords=wonderwall&rh=n%3A163856011%2Ck%3Awonderwall&ajr=0

(To me, this person's style sounds a bit "Elton-esque", not sure why).

IMHO, if you're going to blast a song because all it consists of is a "few chords", then you should be prepared to be able to sing it spot on as well. Because in this case, it should be obvious to anyone interested in music, that the song was never intended to be an instrumental juggernaut anyway. Then too, you can't just strum a few chords and claim ANY backing rhythm track is a "song". The melody and chord progression,(I believe), is the only thing covered under copyright. Simply strumming the guitar, makes you the "arrangement".
Last edited by Captaincranky at Dec 15, 2013,
#22
Quote by Captaincranky
I must me the only person in the free world who has never knowingly hear, "Wonderwall". So, I set off to Amazon to rectify that situation.

Here's where it gets strange. I found 715 MP3 entries, using the search term,"Wonderwall".

Anyway, this version, (I hope it's the same song), done with an acoustic piano, seems pretty decent: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-music&field-keywords=wonderwall&rh=n%3A163856011%2Ck%3Awonderwall&ajr=0

(To me, this person's style sounds a bit "Elton-esque", not sure why).

IMHO, if you're going to blast a song because all it consists of is a "few chords", then you should be prepared to be able to sing it spot on as well. Because in this case, it should be obvious to anyone interested in music, that the song was never intended to be an instrumental juggernaut anyway. Then too, you can't just strum a few chords and claim ANY backing rhythm track is a "song". The melody and chord progression,(I believe), is the only thing covered under copyright. Simply strumming the guitar, makes you the "arrangement".



I wasn't trying to say the song was sh!t itself i was trying to say it's played on guitar by so many people its irritating to hear. They don't even sing it.
#23
Shamefully, I know how to play Classical Gas and not Wonderwall.


I'm going to be a jerk about it but to me unless you are Mason Williams--the guy who composed it--it is a beginning to intermediate song. I have heard advanced versions of it. However, the original is a beginning to intermediate song. A good song to learn for finger plucking and a fun song to learn for finger plucking but a beginning to intermediate song overall. I compare it to mainstream rock music and not to something like Flamenco or other classical stuff, which I can't play never will play nor ever aspire to play. Compared to that it is pretty basic.

Now, if you are just starting to learn it, it may seem advanced but the same finger plucking pattern repeats throughout the song. So, let me whip out the tab, (I got it on Music Notes when I first started out) just learn the intro and it pretty much repeats over and over again until the outro which gets a little more complicated.
#24
To play as well as the original would be advanced intermediate at least
#25
Quote by zsezse4
I wasn't trying to say the song was sh!t itself i was trying to say it's played on guitar by so many people its irritating to hear. They don't even sing it.
Well, I sympathize with you. My syntax and unorthodox sense of humor has me in trouble more than not.

But, we really are on the same page about the, "you gotta be able to sing the simple stuff, or leave me alone about it", aspect of rhythm driven songs. In fact, what I heard of ,"Wonderwall" is fairly generic rhythm guitar work anyway.

A couple of standout rhythm tracks that you can almost, (but not quite), get away with without singing might be,"Pinball Wizard", and maybe "Sympathy for the Devil". "The House of the Rising Sun" almost makes it, as long as you keep the demo to one verse.

Even the most fun to ad lib rhythm to song in the whole world, Van Morrison's, "Brown Eyed Girl", needs to be sung. (And that's cause the melody is driving the rhythm pattern).
Last edited by Captaincranky at Dec 15, 2013,
#26
Quote by Tempoe
To play as well as the original would be advanced intermediate at least


That's probably true. If I get a song just right I'm happy with it but no I can't play it as well as Mason Williams himself.
#27
Quote by Captaincranky
I must me the only person in the free world who has never knowingly hear, "Wonderwall". So, I set off to Amazon to rectify that situation.

Here's where it gets strange. I found 715 MP3 entries, using the search term,"Wonderwall"


We're talking about this version;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hzrDeceEKc

Quote by TS
I wasn't trying to say the song was sh!t itself i was trying to say it's played on guitar by so many people its irritating to hear. They don't even sing it.


Cool - it shouldn't be too hard for you to play it then yeah?

Just as a clue as to where I'm heading, most people play it incorrectly.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#28
Hm, he looks just a bit like a young, sideways, George Harrison... It must be the eyebrows....
Last edited by Captaincranky at Dec 16, 2013,
#29
I think beginner, intermediate, advanced is relative to the player to a large degree.

For instance, most people would consider John Dowland's "Allemande" (My Lady Hunsdon's Puffe) an advanced piece. It isn't what most people would call easy. It's a great piece. It's a grade 8 piece, according to the Royal Conservatory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nLvlT-6hEk

However, once you surround yourself with people at a much higher level of playing, it's not so advanced anymore. "Serious" classical guitarists don't record it or play it in concert because it is too easy. They would describe it as an "advanced beginner piece" or something.

Playing at that level, anything less than a grade 9 piece is cheapening yourself and a detriment to your credibility as a player.

That's one of the reasons why Liona Boyd is not "up there" in the list of classical guitarists - because she will play and record pieces that are relatively "easier." The funny thing is, people like those pieces, and she records them and plays them *very* well, so people like *her.* Therefore, she's much more of a household name than, say, Narcisso Yepes.

Anyways... to answer your question specifically:

Having played the Dowland Allemande, and other pieces ranging from grade 1-10 (Royal Conservatory), and listening/watching Classical Gas, I'd peg it to be, by comparison, about a grade 5-6 level piece. In other words, by most standards, an intermediate piece - far from a beginner piece, but about as far again from being advanced.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
Last edited by axemanchris at Dec 16, 2013,
#30
Quote by axemanchris
I think beginner, intermediate, advanced is relative to the player to a large degree.

For instance, most people would consider John Dowland's "Allemande" (My Lady Hunsdon's Puffe) an advanced piece. It isn't what most people would call easy. It's a great piece. It's a grade 8 piece, according to the Royal Conservatory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nLvlT-6hEk

However, once you surround yourself with people at a much higher level of playing, it's not so advanced anymore. "Serious" classical guitarists don't record it or play it in concert because it is too easy. They would describe it as an "advanced beginner piece" or something.

Playing at that level, anything less than a grade 9 piece is cheapening yourself and a detriment to your credibility as a player.

That's one of the reasons why Liona Boyd is not "up there" in the list of classical guitarists - because she will play and record pieces that are relatively "easier." The funny thing is, people like those pieces, and she records them and plays them *very* well, so people like *her.* Therefore, she's much more of a household name than, say, Narcisso Yepes.

Anyways... to answer your question specifically:

Having played the Dowland Allemande, and other pieces ranging from grade 1-10 (Royal Conservatory), and listening/watching Classical Gas, I'd peg it to be, by comparison, about a grade 5-6 level piece. In other words, by most standards, an intermediate piece - far from a beginner piece, but about as far again from being advanced.

CT



Finally a quality opinion. Thank you for taking time to write something useful to me.