#1
hello,
I need a cab to go with my peavey 6505+
I play metal and the cost should be around 200-300€ (max 400&euro
thanks
#2
Any closed-back cab with Celestion Vintage 30's will do.
I prefer a 2x12 for portability.
#3
www.thomann.de

Look at the Harley Benton G212 Vintage or the G412 Vintage. These have V30's and are really cheap for what you get
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#4
Cant beat the Harley Benton Vintage serie cabs for the money. Comes with Celestion V30 which is a good speaker for metal.

While the cab construction may not be the greatest you are practically getting almost free cab for what the V30 speakers in it cost alone.

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#6
Yeah, get the G212 Vintage or the G412 Vintage.
The 2x12 may be better for portability since it's smaller, but mind that the 4x12 has wheels.
Name's Luca.

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#7
+1 on the HB g212vintage

when your budget's pretty low it's hard to beat.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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#9
Quote by Jayerrr
does the cab make a big difference on sound?


short answer: it can

the extended answer is like two pages long and it boils down to: as long as you're using a voidless material for your closed back cab then they'll sound fairly similar.

dimensions do play a role, like a bigger cab will cause the resonance frequency of the speakers to drop, thus making the speakers more efficient at producing low end... which a guitar doesn't really use anyway (seeing as it's lowest fundamental is ~80 Hz). but if you are using slack tunings and want to step all over the bass players toes then a bigger cab may be something you wanna look at.

i actually do use oversized cabs.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#10
Quote by Jayerrr
does the cab make a big difference on sound?



Its equally important to have a good cab, or more importantly, good speakers, as is having a good amp. Cab size and construction affect the sound but the speaker is the important part. Good amp through shitty speaker will sound... well... shitty.

In hifi while they all aim for relatively neutral sound there is still a big difference between speakers. With guitar speakers that aim for anything else but neutral there is a HUGE difference between them. All have their own quirks, spikes and valleys in frequency response. Some are harsh, some are warm, some are midrange oriented and others are scooped and put emphasis on lows and highs. You are not reproducing sound, you are creating one and all this plays a part in it.

Celestion V30 is popular in metal because it is very midrange oriented so it stands out in the mix, spiky so that it sounds quite exciting and is very tight overall. Not very heavy on bass but thats something a bass player is for. Other popular speaker for metal is G12-T75 but its a polar opposite from V30. Midrange is warm but quite recessed and emphasis is put on treble and fat, relatively loose bottom. Common in classic metal sounds. Some put both speakers in one cab to complement each other. But these are not the only good speakers. Celestion may have set a "standard" but not everyone likes them and there are plenty of other good speakers from Celestion and other manufacturers. Its up to you really, this is all subjective and matter of taste stuff

Videos may speak more than thousand words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRDRs2vyMyw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdSp8KHe53Y


You propably get the idea now.

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Last edited by MaaZeus at Dec 16, 2013,
#11
Quote by gumbilicious
[...](seeing as it's lowest fundamental is ~80 Hz)[...]

Well it depends, he plays metal on a 6505+, he looks like a guy who could use a 7/8 strings.
I always find it unsatisfying to play in drop A through an 8" speaker inside a downsized open back cab.

That much low end could mean muddy sound if you're playing on in E standard, but if you wanna play some meshuggah you could use an oversized cab indeed.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
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#12
i use 6 strings in c standard tuning
Last edited by Jayerrr at Dec 16, 2013,
#13
In that case a Harley Benton G212 vintage will do just fine, oversized cab tend to be sold for a whole lot of money - a zilla's is £240 unloaded.
Name's Luca.

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I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
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Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
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#14
^ I'd say the HB one is big enough to not sound boxy, at least. It's not really oversized but it's not undersized either I didn't notice a massive problem with the heavier tones out of mine (though admittedly I'm only playing at fairly low volume levels, so bear that in mind).

Quote by Jayerrr
does the cab make a big difference on sound?


Yes, loads (assuming you're also including the speakers in your definition of "cab").

Even with the same speakers they can make a fair bit of difference, too small can sound "boxy" with a closed back cabinet design.

That's a gross oversimplification, as gumbi implied in his post, he knows more than I do about this
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#16
Quote by Spambot_2
Yeah, get the G212 Vintage or the G412 Vintage.
The 2x12 may be better for portability since it's smaller, but mind that the 4x12 has wheels.


Not that wheels will help going up stairs, nor will they make it easier to fit into a small car, and it'll be at least half again as heavy.
#17
Quote by Jayerrr
I don't know about the HB, i also heard lots of bad things about it


Never heard one bad thing about the cabs. Id have one myself but i saw my Zilla 2x12 first
I shouldn't post when drunk..



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#18
Quote by gumbilicious
short answer: it can

the extended answer is like two pages long and it boils down to: as long as you're using a voidless material for your closed back cab then they'll sound fairly similar.

dimensions do play a role, like a bigger cab will cause the resonance frequency of the speakers to drop, thus making the speakers more efficient at producing low end... which a guitar doesn't really use anyway (seeing as it's lowest fundamental is ~80 Hz). but if you are using slack tunings and want to step all over the bass players toes then a bigger cab may be something you wanna look at.


Most guitar speakers (and cabinets) begin a fast dropoff at around 110Hz. This includes "oversized" cabinets, even those with random holes that the manufacturers refer to as ports (but aren't). Simply putting a speaker in a larger cabinet won't cause its frequency response to drop. Most 4x12s, for example, with a 100W head playing at gig volumes can't even produce a standard low E fundamental (82Hz). Check out the frequency curve for a Vintage 30 down at the bottom of the page: http://celestion.com/product/1/vintage_30/
The speaker has begun the downward drop just below 110Hz. More significantly, most 100W heads simply don't have enough power to reproduce bottom end to any great degree and certainly not at gigging volumes.

99% of all drop tuned guitars run through standard amp/cabinets aren't producing the fundamentals of the bottom notes they're playing, nor of anything much below 100Hz. The low notes are "indicated" by a pattern of much higher harmonics, usually beginning no lower than the first or second octave of the note.
#20
If you want a closed-back 2x12 that will reproduce some low end (down to around 52Hz), build one of around 3.5 cubic feet interior volume with a pair of roughly 4" diameter x 4" deep (this is a tube, not just a round hole) ports. And then load it with Eminence Delta ProA 12" speakers. You'll find these in the Pro Audio section of the Eminence site, not the guitar section. These speakers do a great job with guitar, but they will definitely go low.

Then run a nice tube preamp into a 500-800W solid state power amp (the speakers will handle 300-400W each).

I actually did this with a pair of these boxes, a 1500W SS power amp. I hosed the wood down with LineX pickup truck bed liner, which made them near indestructible, and installed braces to 1) prevent unwanted resonances from the large side and back panels and 2) prevent "oilcanning." I stacked them vertically (a single tall column of four 12" speakers) to prevent treble beaming and increase horizontal dispersion.

There are pretty healthy magnets on the back of these speakers (they're considered a drop-in sub for EV-Ls) and with 3/4" pine construction, so these cabs can be weighty.

It's a surprisingly simple DIY project, and you don't need fancy finger-joined corners to get adequate strength. If you use Premium PL glue (google it) and some brads, you'll get a very strong cabinet (these survived over 2 years of brutal handling and have recently been retired in favor of much lighter and even more capable -- though more expensive -- replacements). Just make sure that it's airtight aside from the ports. Leaking air produces strange little whistles and takes power away from the speakers.

The Delta ProA speakers are excellent for guitar and not particularly expensive compared to, say, Vintage 30's. http://www.amazon.com/EMINENCE-DELTAPRO12A-12-Inch-Professional-Speakers/dp/B0009HBHD8
Last edited by dspellman at Dec 16, 2013,
#21
Quote by Jayerrr
I don't know about the HB, i also heard lots of bad things about it


Like what?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#22
Quote by dspellman
Simply putting a speaker in a larger cabinet won't cause its frequency response to drop.


this is not correct. internal volume of a closed back cabinet directly effects a speaker's resonance frequency.

http://lenardaudio.com/education/05_speakers_4.html

i have read this in multiple sound engineering books. it does depend upon the speaker as to what internal volume is preferred, and also when putting it in a bigger box you'll be trading some efficiency of the speaker. there is also a diminishing return in volume vs. low end tradeoff.

Quote by dspellman
Most guitar speakers (and cabinets) begin a fast dropoff at around 110Hz. This includes "oversized" cabinets, even those with random holes that the manufacturers refer to as ports (but aren't).


that resonance frequency will actually change in different size boxes. and yes ports are a joke for guitar. imo, you shouldn't even want to make sound below ~150 Hz for guitar as i prefer the bass to fill in that area of the mix. but some people like different sounds so...

Quote by dspellman
Check out the frequency curve for a Vintage 30 down at the bottom of the page: http://celestion.com/product/1/vintage_30/
The speaker has begun the downward drop just below 110Hz.


yes, this is called the resonance frequency of the speaker. anything to the left of the resonance frequency is killed by the speaker's suspension trying to return it to rest (i think it's called damping) quicker than the induced field of the electric current from the voice coil can push it out.

i believe a larger box changes the speaker's compliance because the air inside the cabinet resists the speaker's movement by putting a back pressure on the speaker. this effect can be maximized to change the actual resonance frequency of the speaker, making it more efficient at producing low end.

Quote by dspellman
More significantly, most 100W heads simply don't have enough power to reproduce bottom end to any great degree and certainly not at gigging volumes.


i am really not too sure what you mean by this at all. many possibilities arise as to what this can mean.

with a proper system, even 10 watts can produce plenty of low frequencies. with an inappropriate system 1000 watts won't produce much low end. i don't see power output being a direct factor in this discussion.

in other words, the system producing the sound has far more influence of the propoertion of low end is going to be made. the wattage is only a something driving that system and has no direct effect on the proportion of low being made. a 1000 watts will put out more low end than 100 watts will only because 1000 watts is putting out more of every frequency (given that the system producing the sound is held constant).

Quote by dspellman
99% of all drop tuned guitars run through standard amp/cabinets aren't producing the fundamentals of the bottom notes they're playing, nor of anything much below 100Hz. The low notes are "indicated" by a pattern of much higher harmonics, usually beginning no lower than the first or second octave of the note.


yup, most slack tuned guitars don't produce the fundamental. nor, imo, is it beneficial for them to attempt to do so.

as i am sure you know, your ear is so insensitive to these lower frequencies that we generally don't 'hear' the fundamental in a bass like we think we do either. most of what we hear from bass is most likely from the 2nd and 3rd harmonics, which is why i like to keep the guitar from being prominent below the ~150 Hz range. it at least lets the bass have some room in the mix.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

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-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Dec 16, 2013,
#23
Though I don't doubt dspellman knows a great deal about cabs and sound science -- I think TS would be better served by being spared the detail of some of his posts.


Using my EARS, I can tell you that most 412 cabs with decent speakers can provide a nice low-end and good tone through a 6505. V30s are the most popular choice, but there are other options. I run an Eminence Governor (V30 clone -- but better in my opinion) and a Swamp Thang and will cross them when I can afford two more. Even in a cheap cab, those speakers combined with some old Celestions certainly DO provide ample low-end grunt and still cut through a mix.

My ears aren't lying to me, nor were they lying when I've gone to no small number of metal shows where the guitarists are simply playing through halfstacks with Mesa, Orange, or Marshall 412 cabs. They CERTAINLY DID have a good, brutal tone, in most cases, without getting into so much scientific trickery (at least from what I could tell).
#24
is it better to build a cab myself and buy the speakers or to buy one? I'd like to have a 4x12
#25
if you don't know what you're doing it's probably better to buy one.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#26
Quote by Jayerrr
is it better to build a cab myself and buy the speakers or to buy one? I'd like to have a 4x12


If you have the tools and skill go for it. I've built a couple of subwoofers when I was a teen and if I'd still have the access to the tools and space I'd rather make my own cab aswell. Measurements are all around the web so if you want to build your own Mesa/Marshall cab you can for a fraction of the cost. Its not like the label on the grill magically makes it sound better or anything, its all about the materials and how well you make one. And speakers of course.

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Line6 Pod X3
Last edited by MaaZeus at Dec 17, 2013,
#28
Yes but to what extent is something people fight about constantly. Technically best material to build a cabs from would be MDF because its so rigid and void free by design. However it doesnt stand abuse nor moisture and some claim it sounds "dead" though I seriously doubt it. Its also fricking heavy. 4x12 MDF cab is a pain in the ass to move around. Better leave it to hifi speakers and subwoofers.

Usually quality cabs are made from birch plywood, preferably good quality void free stuff. It stands abuse and is relatively lightweight. Better stick to that stuff.

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#29
Quote by MaaZeus
Yes but to what extent is something people fight about constantly. Technically best material to build a cabs from would be MDF because its so rigid and void free by design. However it doesnt stand abuse nor moisture and some claim it sounds "dead" though I seriously doubt it. Its also fricking heavy. 4x12 MDF cab is a pain in the ass to move around. Better leave it to hifi speakers and subwoofers.

Usually quality cabs are made from birch plywood, preferably good quality void free stuff. It stands abuse and is relatively lightweight. Better stick to that stuff.


+1

mdf is heavy, i have also heard it is not the most durable and it'll soak up moisture. baltic birch is still a void free ply, lighter, a bit more durable and not as susceptible to moisture. so most people use that.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#30
Quote by Jayerrr
is it better to build a cab myself and buy the speakers or to buy one? I'd like to have a 4x12

The Harley Benton G412 Vintage is a good cab. The speakers alone are almost the price of the entire cab. The cab is made of Plywood and if you do build a cab, the materials and speakers will cost way more than the HB cab loaded with V30's

I mean it is your money, but not getting a decent cab loaded with good speakers because you have heard they suck is not a smart way to look at it.

Buy the HB cab and if you don't like the cab, build your own and use the V30's from the HB. But at least you will have a cab for now.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate