How white supremacists are using black metal to promote hate

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Conservationist
realist
Join date: Jun 2008
470 IQ
#1
From Tablet Magazine:


Twenty years on, black metal itself is inescapably influential and multifaceted but also embroiled in a kind of tumult exercised by the warring parts of the music’s trajectory; this struggle may be best exemplified by the simultaneous respect and scorn heaped onto the figure of Varg Vikernes, one of the founders of black metal’s Norwegian second wave. No fan of black metal underestimates the influence of Buruzm, Vikernes’ primary musical project, but just as frequently the man is mocked for his shifting philosophy and attempts at Viking play-acting on film and in interviews. Vikernes’ legacy has been intensely scrutinized, and while this one man takes the brunt of criticism, other actors have cemented a bridge between white nationalism and black metal more successfully (and more quietly) than he. National Socialist Black Metal, or NSBM, is parasite that feeds on that part of black metal steeped in bigotry and violence.

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/music/156896/black-metal-antichrist-kramer?all=1


Wow.
vIsIbleNoIsE
The Asian-Viking Paradox
Join date: Feb 2006
60 IQ
#3
Quote by Hoodoo Man
So, all of it?


hah...hah...

this all sounds pretty underground to me. and obviously the extreme nature of black metal would make it a fit for extreme ideologies.
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theogonia777
Miss Kristen
Join date: Jun 2009
230 IQ
#4
Are there people that listen to proper metal (especially black metal) that were actually not aware that that sort of thing existed? I thought that everyone knew. Heck, I figured that everyone knew that pretty much any type of rock music had at least some of that sort of thing going on.
Quote by Hal-Sephira
Shut the mother#%$& up, $^%got. You have a #$%^ing terrible muther&@$#ing taste in %#$@ing music, @&%$ing movies and %&$#ing video games. Every time I see you on the forums, you are always saying something overrated and some $@&#ing sh*t. You are just mother$^@%ing ignorant as a whole.

Get a #%$@ing life or you will get banned for life.


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Read this please.
Hoodoo Man
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#5
Quote by vIsIbleNoIsE
hah...hah...

this all sounds pretty underground to me. and obviously the extreme nature of black metal would make it a fit for extreme ideologies.

My point was that all black metal (and all metal in general) is violent, and it is a ridiculous hipster notion that you can have non-violent black metal.

Metal is full of ideas like strength as a virtue, honour, pride and brotherhood, so it obviously appeals to neo-nazis more than most types of music. It's the same reason why Hitler loved Wagner.
beadhangingOne
Gnomesaiyan?
Join date: Jul 2005
796 IQ
#6
Especially when you consider the fact that

Quote by Hoodoo Man
virtue, honour, pride and brotherhood.


all sound really good with the word 'white' right before each one.

Anything can be twisted to justify racism. Look at what happened to poor old Darwin and Nietzche.
ExDementia
UG Freak
Join date: Apr 2008
80 IQ
#7
Meh.

I don't really care what they sing about to be honest. One of my favorite albums is extremely Anti-Semitic (Kosherat by Grand Belial's Key), but I won't stop listening to it because of that. They can have their views and that's fine, all I really care about is if they make music that I like. In fact, I find such extreme views very interesting -- not because I agree with them, but because it is fascinating where the human mind can go under the right conditions.

It's kind of like watching a horror movie, you don't believe in or condone the actions or views expressed, and would never ever act them out, but you still find them entertaining. The people who buy Saw 13 on DVD are doing it for the same reason as the people who buy Putrid Pile's latest album. It is entertainment, not a bible or an instruction manual.

Of course, there will always be the few who are the exception, but they will never be the rule.
Cavalcade
razor sharp
Join date: Jul 2011
621 IQ
#8
This sort of thing has caught my attention recently. Especially after finding out that not every NSBM band was crap (thanks, Nokturnal Mortum, "Ukraine" is just gorgeous).

Racism can be pretty damn metal. The image (however wrong it might be) of a strong-willed hero defending their noble people against the uncivilized barbarian hordes, or better yet, "civilizing" them, has inspired many a writer. It projects self-confidence, strength, and a general lack of fvcks, plus it goes against the mainstream, HARD. You don't get much more kvlt than NS/WP.

On the other end, you have leftist hardline bands, making sermons out of their songs and preaching to the choir. Boring. NS metal makes the listener part of something big, a huge battle for survival, or a greater culture. Both things that are bigger than yourself. It's the same rhetoric that makes hard-right movements so popular in some parts of the world.

It's no wonder why metal and NS/WP go together like violent bread and racist Nutella.

I don't support racism, white power, or nationalism, and neither do most of the bands I listen to. But if you're trying to "de-racist" metal, you can't be stupid about it. It's just not that easy.
Helloween4Ever
Keeper of the Seven Keys
Join date: Apr 2008
152 IQ
#9
I think it is stupid to let a bands political views get in the way of enjoying a band. I never gave a rats ass that Nokturnal Mortum are NS for example, since they make deadly music.
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crazysam23_Atax
Feuergesicht
Join date: Oct 2009
490 IQ
#13
I'm not surprised. WS/WP guys have been doing this with Punk and Hardcore for a couple of decades at this point. BM also allows an easy platform for them.
Conservationist
realist
Join date: Jun 2008
470 IQ
#14
Quote by Hoodoo Man
it is a ridiculous hipster notion that you can have non-violent black metal.


I couldn't agree more. The appeal of the underground is that we can do things that wouldn't work if we were trying to be popular. That includes bands, zines, fans, everyone. Metal is the beast in man: violence, injustice, inhumanity (delicious), forbidden ideas, amorality, sodomy, Satan...
lawr0000
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2013
10 IQ
#16
I don't want to be offensive, but how is this any different than black rap/hip-hop artists promoting drugs, drinking, abuse of women etc?
beefcake122
no fun.
Join date: Jan 2010
51 IQ
#17
I won't get started on national socialism or I'll probably end up getting banned, there is a lot of good nsbm though. If you won't listen just because you perceive it as being racist then whatever, miss out on good music.

http://youtu.be/bKklqwHRYFg
sunbather is shit
Nietsche
Registered Hoover
Join date: May 2009
80 IQ
#19
Quote by Hoodoo Man
It's the same reason why Hitler loved Wagner.


Yeah, the Nazi's were all about the whole redemption through love thing.
.
BL1NDSIDE-J
Banned
Join date: Dec 2010
120 IQ
#20
I dunno why everyone is so down on Nazi's they didn't do anything our own Government hasn't done to native Americans they may have been more cruel but that was just because they had better technology.
Morphogenesis26
UG Nerd
Join date: Apr 2011
30 IQ
#21
Quote by BL1NDSIDE-J
I dunno why everyone is so down on Nazi's they didn't do anything our own Government hasn't done to native Americans they may have been more cruel but that was just because they had better technology.


One is more recent than the other one.
philwhite
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2007
20 IQ
#22
Quote by BL1NDSIDE-J
I dunno why everyone is so down on Nazi's they didn't do anything our own Government hasn't done to native Americans they may have been more cruel but that was just because they had better technology.


WTF. I don't think anyone condones what was done in either case. Its F'ed up and wrong. If you think anything is ok with Nazism you need your head checked.
BL1NDSIDE-J
Banned
Join date: Dec 2010
120 IQ
#23
The Holocaust was bad in of itself but I don't see much wrong with National Socialism. So please continue with your but its a bunch of racial bigots blah blah blah. Americans are just as racist as anyone.
Ironic Maiden
Shia-Kazing
Join date: Jul 2010
120 IQ
#24
Oh lovely, this is going to turn into another thread where edgy kids pretend that racism is cool, isn't it?
Geldin
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2008
150 IQ
#25
Quote by Ironic Maiden
Oh lovely, this is going to turn into another thread where edgy kids pretend that racism is cool, isn't it?

Seems like it.

For what it's worth, this thread got me listening to Nokturnal Mortum. It's a shame that I disagree with their ideology. The music is damn good.
Born Headless
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2009
60 IQ
#26
Quote by Ironic Maiden
Oh lovely, this is going to turn into another thread where edgy kids pretend that racism is cool, isn't it?


Or where politically correct ultra liberals play white knight and whine...

Who gives a shit about a band's ideology? It's as irrelevant as their favorite color.
Cavalcade
razor sharp
Join date: Jul 2011
621 IQ
#27
Quote by Born Headless
Or where politically correct ultra liberals play white knight and whine...

Who gives a shit about a band's ideology? It's as irrelevant as their favorite color.

If you asked someone their favorite color, and they said "mauve" or "burn umber", would you seriously give them your money?
Ironic Maiden
Shia-Kazing
Join date: Jul 2010
120 IQ
#30
Quote by Born Headless
Or where politically correct ultra liberals play white knight and whine...

Who gives a shit about a band's ideology? It's as irrelevant as their favorite color.

You don't care about a band's ideology? To me that's an incredibly important part of their music.
Born Headless
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2009
60 IQ
#32
I mean, it's interesting and all but it's not going to affect my opinion on the music. It can be related if that's their reason for writing i.e. they're expressing their radical ideas via their music. But if I just loved an album and found out that it's about something I strongly disagree with, I'm NOT going to stop liking it as A.) I can't and B.) that's ******ed.
BL1NDSIDE-J
Banned
Join date: Dec 2010
120 IQ
#33
Quote by Born Headless
Or where politically correct ultra liberals play white knight and whine...

Who gives a shit about a band's ideology? It's as irrelevant as their favorite color.


Thank you Sir, couldn't have said it better myself.
technicolour
Banned
Join date: Jul 2006
90 IQ
#34
Quote by Ironic Maiden
Oh lovely, this is going to turn into another thread where edgy kids pretend that racism is cool, isn't it?


Exactly go- I mean guy. Racism is never acceptable in any form. Don't forget about the 6 gorillion!

Geldin
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2008
150 IQ
#36
Quote by Born Headless
Who gives a shit about a band's ideology? It's as irrelevant as their favorite color.

It changes my mind as to whether I'm going to financially support the band by buying their album. I don't feel comfortable keeping an album I pirated that I'm not going to buy at some point, but I don't want to buy the album if the band is racist or bigoted. I can't imagine I'm the only person who feels like this either. I don't want to steal from them, but I don't want to give them my money either.
Born Headless
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2009
60 IQ
#37
You're paying for goods. Who says all their profit is going towards some big racist agenda? And you buy goods from strangers and corporations all day and who knows what kind of nefarious, evil shit they're doing. But the bottom line is you're paying for goods and services and their free to do whatever it is they like with that money. I see the point you're trying to make but it still doesn't make sense. I don't agree with you so I'm not going to pay for this album I really like because you might use it to fund said things I don't agree with? Meh...

To each his own though. All you guys can just miss out. Hope your favorite band doesn't start using curse words. I'd hate for you to have to boycott them.
BL1NDSIDE-J
Banned
Join date: Dec 2010
120 IQ
#38
Quote by Geldin
It changes my mind as to whether I'm going to financially support the band by buying their album. I don't feel comfortable keeping an album I pirated that I'm not going to buy at some point, but I don't want to buy the album if the band is racist or bigoted. I can't imagine I'm the only person who feels like this either. I don't want to steal from them, but I don't want to give them my money either.


In that case you better stop doing business with every corporation on the planet and turn off your tv if you have one.
Geldin
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2008
150 IQ
#39
Quote by Born Headless
You're paying for goods. Who says all their profit is going towards some big racist agenda? And you buy goods from strangers and corporations all day and who knows what kind of nefarious, evil shit they're doing. But the bottom line is you're paying for goods and services and their free to do whatever it is they like with that money. I see the point you're trying to make but it still doesn't make sense. I don't agree with you so I'm not going to pay for this album I really like because you might use it to fund said things I don't agree with? Meh...

To each his own though. All you guys can just miss out. Hope your favorite band doesn't start using curse words. I'd hate for you to have to boycott them.

That's basically my point - I don't know.

As for buying from corporations, that's a little different. Some necessities (groceries and gas) I have to buy from corporations. I'd avoid it if I could, but it's that or I starve or can't get to work or school. Music is a luxury, plain and simple, and there are artists who I'm comfortable buying from if I happen to have money.

There are flaws in my reasoning, sure, but it's what works for me. If you have another system, be it just pirating the album or being comfortable buying it regardless of ideology, it's not my place to tell you how to think.
Conservationist
realist
Join date: Jun 2008
470 IQ
#40
Quote by Morphogenesis26
Racism is for dumb dumbs, but that doesn't mean those dumb dumbs can't make kick-ass music.


I don't think dumb people make good music.

In other news, "white people" are actually a pinkish color, and DO NOT go with the drapes.

Back to Ikea...
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