#1
I'm going to use wonderwall as an example (I could feel the collective mass of UG groan as I typed that). If I popped off the capo and played it completely open, it sounds pretty correct. But that's always felt "cheap" to me. Are you really dropping the key a whole tone properly if you do that?

The way I play a capo'd Wonderwall (god forbid I play it at all anymore) is/was with the chords:

Em7 G Dsus4 A7sus4

Now to a novice like myself, that looks like the key of E Minor with a major fourth instead of minor. So, changing it one tone down to D minor, here is how I tried playing it open:

Dmin

e |3
B |1
G |2
D |0
A |0
E |0

then
Cmaj
e |3
B |1
G |0
D |2
A |3
E |0

then

Fsus2
e |3
B |1
G |0
D |2h3
A |0
E |0

then
Fmajadd2
e |3
B |1
G |2
D |3
A |0
E |0

then

Gmaj
e |3
B |1
G |0
D |0
A |x
E |3


Sorry for the weird formatting, but I've never written tab out before. Is playing it how it's written verbatim sans capo the same as lowering the key a whole tone or is what I wrote correct? Am I over-complicating things? Assistance please! I appreciate the help .


Thanks,

JD
#2
When you transpose it back up to Em, do you get the original chords?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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#3
I just realized my own fallacy. It's in the key of F# Minor, but guitar tab is written as if there was no capo. DOH.

So using the same chord structure without a capo is playing it a step down, then. If I wanted to play it in the SAME key I'd play it without a capo, but in F# minor? Yes?


This is why I shouldn't pull all-nighters.
#4
I don't mean to bump this needlessly, but I've been playing around with a new arrangement since I realized how foolish I've been. My main purpose for these shenanigans is to help my guitar-newb friends that don't have a capo. I'm able to teach them proper technique, how to learn the notes on the guitar, the basics of chord construction... But transposing is hard for me. Like you just saw above, I get confused pretty easily in this subject.


Anyways, here's the beginner friendly non-capo version I came up with, any ideas to make it sound closer to the original?

Tune B down to A


e|-0---0---0------0--------
A|-0---0---0------0--------
G|-2---2---1------x--------
D|-4---2---2------2h4p2---
A|-0---0---0h2----x--------
E|-0---0---0------0---------
#5
Yeah, if you wanted to play it without capo, you would play it a whole step higher that means F# minor.

And the chords would all simply be a whole step higher. So Em7 becomes F#m7, G becomes A, Dsus4 becomes Esus4 and A7sus4 becomes B7sus4. You don't need to look at any scales or anything when you transpose. You just need to move all notes equal amount of steps. In this case F# minor is a whole step higher than E minor so you move all notes and chords a whole step higher.

The chord quality (minor, major, suspended, whatever) stays the same. Otherwise it wouldn't sound the same. The only thing you do is move the whole chord a whole step higher. So minor chords stay minor chords, they just have a different root.

An example:

Em7: 0 2 0 0 3 0
F#m7: 2 4 2 2 5 2

You just move everything two frets up.

And using a capo isn't cheating. It gives you the opportunity to use different sounding voicings that you couldn't use without capo.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Dec 24, 2013,
#6
Oh I should have clarified. They don't have a capo . I don't think there's anything wrong with using one, I do often!

Maggara marine, they're too new for Barre chords though :/ so I'm trying to adjust tunings to allow them to play it completely open. One of them is getting a capo soon, but the other is unemployed. Just trying to give them an alternative :3.
#7
Quote by johnturner9
Oh I should have clarified. They don't have a capo . I don't think there's anything wrong with using one, I do often!

Maggara marine, they're too new for Barre chords though :/ so I'm trying to adjust tunings to allow them to play it completely open. One of them is getting a capo soon, but the other is unemployed. Just trying to give them an alternative :3.

OK, but usually playing in F# minor requires some barre chords.

The thing in that song is that every chord has an A in them as the highest note and you really can't play that without using some kind of barre chords. Because IMO the song needs that high A note in the chords, it won't sound the same otherwise. There are some other non-barre voicings of those chords but they won't sound the same. But if you want them, here they are:

2 0 2 2 2 0 - F#m7

x 0 2 2 2 0 - A

0 2 2 2 0 0 - Esus4

x 2 2 2 0 0 - B7sus4

But as I said, the chords need the A note (5th fret of high E string) as their highest note to sound similar to the chords in the song.

Edit:

Or you could play them an octave lower (though that would have a muddier sound to it):

2 0 2 2 x x - F#m7

x 0 2 2 x x - A

0 2 2 2 x x - Esus4

x 2 2 2 x x - B7sus4

All of those chords have an A as their highest note so they will have a similar sound to the song. But they will sound a bit muddy because they are played so low.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Dec 24, 2013,
#8
Yeah I think you're right on that. Thank you for the chords, though! I tried tuning the E to an F# and keeping the B tuned down to an A to help emulate the flow. The whole thing ended up being this:


e |-----------------0-----0------0------0-----
A |-----------------0-----0------0------0-----
G |-----------------4-----2------1------2-----
D |-----------------2-----2------2------2-----
A |-----------------0-----0------h2-----0-----
F#|-----------------0-----x------0------0h2p0


It sounds... interesting. Maybe a weird little chord progression I'll keep for the future, but it still doesn't sound close. I suppose they'll just have to play the song a whole step down until they both have capos :P.


Sorry guys! I wasted thread space! At least I had fun .
#9
They would have to play the song in a whole step up tuning, not in whole step down (though I wouldn't suggest doing that because it could break your strings). If they tuned a whole step down, they would be playing D minor if they played the fingerings of an E minor chord. So it will sound even lower. Capo makes your tuning higher. Capo is the same as playing barre chords.

Listen to the song - you need to make your Em chord sound higher, not lower. And lowering your tuning makes everything sound lower. Don't look at stuff on paper only - that can sometimes just confuse you (and in this case it clearly makes you confused). Music doesn't really work on paper.

What you could do is don't use the song as a backing track. You can play without backing tracks. Or then make a backing track for the song in Em. Or tune the song a whole step down with a pitch shifter. It won't sound that good though.

But I think it would be unnecessary to learn some other fingerings for that song. Just learn it without capo with the same fingerings and when they get a capo, they can play it in the original key. Also, capo isn't that expensive. Tell them to buy one.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Dec 24, 2013,