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#1
I have a question for the prog fans here.

I feel that most people who can't enjoy prog are mostly those who can't understand the odd time signatures. My question is, does your ability to understand them, develop over time?

Or if you can't keep them naturally, you have no chance of ever being able to understand them

I hope that's not the case, because I hope to stick with Prog.. Comments please!

Edit: I apologize for making that statement about the time signatures. It is quite obviously not the case. People do hate Prog for a variety of reasons. I am however not aware of those reasons and the only reason I knew is the one about time signatures.. I tend to make assumptions easily. Bear with me.
Quote by slapsymcdougal
No, I judge people based on how similar they are to me.
The greater the similarity, the more of a total ****ing **** they are.


Metal is like an apple. Everything is good except for the core
Last edited by shawnkenneth at Jan 4, 2014,
#2
listen to footwork instead.
CuSO4

"I don't have an instrument, I don't have a great voice, I just have some nice clothes maybe." paul rutherford
#3
If I ain't feeling it then it's just bad prog.
You who build these altars now

To sacrifice these children
You must not do it anymore
#4
You don't "understand" them, you just go with it...I guess you get used to them and they become more familiar over time. So in that sense yeah, I guess.
#6
I started with easy, repetitive rhythms that were easy to understand from songs that aren't necessarily technical. Yes, the ability does improve over time, but you have to properly take the time to listening and feeling them. Its more than just counting numbers in your head, if you don't like the rhythm then you wont have any incentive to keep going with it.

Easy-ish one to start with:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhfG05h5k4A

and a lesson in understanding it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfqHXFXfBjo
o()o

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#7
It isn't that they can't 'understand odd time signatures.' It's because a shedload of prog bands can't make odd time signatures sound good. The whole time sig superiority is purely reserved for those who should visit www.ultimate-teenprogdouches.com.

Take Money by Pink Floyd for instance. It alternates between 7/4 and 4/4, yet sounds natural as f*ck. A lot of bands seem to use odd time signatures for odd time signatures sake, and at that point it's just a technical exercise rathr than writing music.
#8
Quote by shawnkenneth
It's known that people who can't enjoy prog are mostly those who can't understand the odd time signatures.

This is possibly the most pretentious thing I have ever read.

Are you 13, and have you just discovered Tool?
#9
Quote by Deliriumbassist
It isn't that they can't 'understand odd time signatures.' It's because a shedload of prog bands can't make odd time signatures sound good. The whole time sig superiority is purely reserved for those who should visit www.ultimate-teenprogdouches.com.

Take Money by Pink Floyd for instance. It alternates between 7/4 and 4/4, yet sounds natural as f*ck. A lot of bands seem to use odd time signatures for odd time signatures sake, and at that point it's just a technical exercise rathr than writing music.

This.
But to answer your question, they do become more intuitive if you listen to a bit of music with them in it.

EDIT: Also that^
#10
Quote by BelowTheSun
This is possibly the most pretentious thing I have ever read.

Are you 13, and have you just discovered Tool?


I apologize profusely. I meant 'some people'. And I do not mean that sarcastically..
Quote by slapsymcdougal
No, I judge people based on how similar they are to me.
The greater the similarity, the more of a total ****ing **** they are.


Metal is like an apple. Everything is good except for the core
Last edited by shawnkenneth at Jan 4, 2014,
#11
Just to be clear guys, I have been listening to Progressive for as long as I can remember. Some people may be confused by my question..

Add: One of my favourite songs is DT's Dark Eternal Night. Yet till today I can not for the life of me understand that Bridge/Transistion. This is what made me ask this question.
Quote by slapsymcdougal
No, I judge people based on how similar they are to me.
The greater the similarity, the more of a total ****ing **** they are.


Metal is like an apple. Everything is good except for the core
Last edited by shawnkenneth at Jan 4, 2014,
#12
I don't know shit about time signatures. But I do know most prog bands just play in 4/4 or whatever anyway. Or at least most of the ones I listen to
#13
Quote by Deliriumbassist
Take Money by Pink Floyd for instance. It alternates between 7/4 and 4/4, yet sounds natural as f*ck. A lot of bands seem to use odd time signatures for odd time signatures sake, and at that point it's just a technical exercise rathr than writing music.


"Money" changes between 7/8 timing & 4/4 timing, not 7/4
My Gear:- A guitar, a guitar lead, a guitar amplifier. Or sometimes just an acoustic guitar!
#14
Quote by shawnkenneth
It's known that most people who can't enjoy prog are mostly those who can't understand the odd time signatures.


This will potentially be the stupidest thing that any of us will read today.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#15
I got into the stuff before I started understanding the time signatures, so you don't really need to understand them. That said, I found I could appreciate some things better once I had worked out how the rhythms work, kind of like figuring out a puzzle. You don't need to follow the weird time signatures, it just helps!
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#16
Quote by shawnkenneth
Just to be clear guys, I have been listening to Progressive for as long as I can remember. Some people may be confused by my question..

Add: One of my favourite songs is DT's Dark Eternal Night. Yet till today I can not for the life of me understand that Bridge/Transistion. This is what made me ask this question.

By understand, do you mean you can't work out what time signature it is or do you just not like the bridge/transition part?

Because neither of those have anything to do with "understanding."

The former is simply something that you can learn to do and in time can come to appreciate it. If its the latter then you'll just have to deal with it.
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#17
Quote by theogonia777
This will potentially be the stupidest thing that any of us will read today.


Quote by slapsymcdougal
No, I judge people based on how similar they are to me.
The greater the similarity, the more of a total ****ing **** they are.


Metal is like an apple. Everything is good except for the core
#19
Quote by shawnkenneth


A) There isn't any correlation between the two, probably not even a strictly spurious one.
B) It's not "known" because it isn't true. You just made it up.
C) If you legitimately believe that to be true... Oh man...
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#20
Quote by OddOneOut
By understand, do you mean you can't work out what time signature it is or do you just not like the bridge/transition part?

Because neither of those have anything to do with "understanding."

The former is simply something that you can learn to do and in time can come to appreciate it. If its the latter then you'll just have to deal with it.


A little bit of both. Working out the time sig and enjoying it. I can easily understand the same signature in other songs, but it's just that song and a few others.. Well, guess I gotta deal with it..
Quote by slapsymcdougal
No, I judge people based on how similar they are to me.
The greater the similarity, the more of a total ****ing **** they are.


Metal is like an apple. Everything is good except for the core
#21
Quote by theogonia777
A) There isn't any correlation between the two, probably not even a strictly spurious one.
B) It's not "known" because it isn't true. You just made it up.
C) If you legitimately believe that to be true... Oh man...


Would it make a little more sense if I mentioned the fact that most of my friends listen to EDM and Pop? And I don't get to hand out around musicians much..
Quote by slapsymcdougal
No, I judge people based on how similar they are to me.
The greater the similarity, the more of a total ****ing **** they are.


Metal is like an apple. Everything is good except for the core
#23
Quote by willT08
Better than the shite you listen to then.

anyway anyone who wants to stop talking about boring stuff that doesn't matter and hear something actually good

https://soundcloud.com/caski/caski-rare-groove-swamp81


I do not listen to 'shite'. Saying that I do doesn't change that fact. If you don't have anything to contribute to the question, let me remind you (as you are aware) there are many other threads..
Quote by slapsymcdougal
No, I judge people based on how similar they are to me.
The greater the similarity, the more of a total ****ing **** they are.


Metal is like an apple. Everything is good except for the core
#24
Quote by shawnkenneth
I do not listen to 'shite'.

You made this thread so you probably do haha
#25
Quote by willT08
You made this thread so you probably do haha


What.. I don't even..
Quote by slapsymcdougal
No, I judge people based on how similar they are to me.
The greater the similarity, the more of a total ****ing **** they are.


Metal is like an apple. Everything is good except for the core
#27
Quote by shawnkenneth
What.. I don't even..

If you haven't figured it out, you're the kinda guy that listens to prog and complains that his friends like EDM and Pop

You're losing at life right now, you're ****ing up the base
#28
Quote by willT08
If you haven't figured it out, you're the kinda guy that listens to prog and complains that his friends like EDM and Pop

You're losing at life right now, you're ****ing up the base


I really don't care about what my friends listen to.. See, you guys are always in contact with people who listen to similar music. But when I try to show my friends anything their reactions are bewildering.

eg. Jazz: They think that the players are playing out of tune.
Prog: They are making mistakes in the rhythm..

If that doesn't justify my (admittedly mistaken but quite honest) question, I don't know what will.

P.S: I am kicking life in the ass right now. And you telling me otherwise, is not gonna deter me. Again, if you don't have anything to contribute, please move on.
Quote by slapsymcdougal
No, I judge people based on how similar they are to me.
The greater the similarity, the more of a total ****ing **** they are.


Metal is like an apple. Everything is good except for the core
Last edited by shawnkenneth at Jan 4, 2014,
#31
Yeah man Tool is like waaaaay over everyones heads. aenima is probably like their best work, but it's prolly too complex for you so why dont you just fuark yourself and learn how to swim or something.
Sail upon the open skies
#32
Quote by Deliriumbassist
It isn't that they can't 'understand odd time signatures.' It's because a shedload of prog bands can't make odd time signatures sound good. The whole time sig superiority is purely reserved for those who should visit www.ultimate-teenprogdouches.com.

Take Money by Pink Floyd for instance. It alternates between 7/4 and 4/4, yet sounds natural as f*ck. A lot of bands seem to use odd time signatures for odd time signatures sake, and at that point it's just a technical exercise rathr than writing music.

Quoted For Mothereffin Truth
You who build these altars now

To sacrifice these children
You must not do it anymore
#33
Like anything, you get better at picking them out over time.

I still would prefer to not notice a time signature in a song until I listen to the song more than once, because otherwise it often means that there are some awkward transitions in the song.
#34
If you can't make changing time signatures enjoyable to the ear, you shouldn't be making music with changing time signatures. I do not agree with technicality for technicalities sake. That being said, different people have different tastes in things and there is nothing wrong with musicians just having fun. Really i guess that's the most important thing. You have to mean it or it won't sell.
#35
Quote by shawnkenneth
Would it make a little more sense if I mentioned the fact that most of my friends listen to EDM and Pop? And I don't get to hand out around musicians much..


That's completely irrelevant and does not make your original point any more valid or not completely made-up bullshit.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#36
This is so offensively stupid. How ironic is it that you have a quote deriding 17 year olds when this is the epitome of being infantile?

Prog is one of the worst and most crass forms of music. People don't like it not because it has "complex time signatures". It is a genre that somehow thinks excess is a good thing and is oblivious to people's distaste of excess. All of the complexities you think is in prog is purely on a superficial level. There is nothing in the design and development of the music that is anything beyond neanderthal at best. Prog artists approach writing music like an underachieving high schooler trying to cram 3000 words in an essay without any thought.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#37
I think everyone should take a chill pill. Odd time signatures can sometimes feel unconfortable when you first hear them and some people might not like that, hence TS's (quite badly formulated) argument. You kinda get used to it over time and it becomes more natural. Also I wouldn't say the reason people do not like odd time signatures is because bands can't make them sound good. Music isn't always meant to sound "good", it can be happy, sad, violent, odd, unconfortable, etc... Using an odd time signature doesn't mean you want to make it sound like 4/4, maybe you want to surprise people and shake things up a bit...

^ thanks for your spoiled opinion. You could basically say that for every genre of music by just changing your argument a bit.
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Last edited by shelovemyguitar at Jan 4, 2014,
#38
Like, are you asking why the time signatures are there or asking how to enjoy them? If you can't enjoy them then that's a personal problem.

Quote by Xiaoxi
This is so offensively stupid. How ironic is it that you have a quote deriding 17 year olds when this is the epitome of being infantile?

Prog is one of the worst and most crass forms of music. People don't like it not because it has "complex time signatures". It is a genre that somehow thinks excess is a good thing and is oblivious to people's distaste of excess. All of the complexities you think is in prog is purely on a superficial level. There is nothing in the design and development of the music that is anything beyond neanderthal at best. Prog artists approach writing music like an underachieving high schooler trying to cram 3000 words in an essay without any thought.


but kang cramzon so gr8 buddeh, kang cramzon so gr8 D;
#39
Quote by Xiaoxi
Prog is one of the worst and most crass forms of music. People don't like it not because it has "complex time signatures". It is a genre that somehow thinks excess is a good thing and is oblivious to people's distaste of excess. All of the complexities you think is in prog is purely on a superficial level. There is nothing in the design and development of the music that is anything beyond neanderthal at best. Prog artists approach writing music like an underachieving high schooler trying to cram 3000 words in an essay without any thought.


Actually, that was the most "offensively stupid" thing in this whole thread.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#40
Quote by theogonia777
Actually, that was the most "offensively stupid" thing in this whole thread.

Totally. Not all prog is wanky bullshit. Not all prog is even that technical.

But TS, the problem isn't that people can't understand odd time, it's that most prog bands can't make a decent beat in odd time worth shit.

Listen to this next part closely, because it's important:
If only "smart" people get your music, you're not as smart as you think you are.
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