#1
Is there any videos or tips that you can give to someone about palm muting while sweep picking? like, how to palm mute while sweeping.
#2
If you know how to palm mute and you know how to sweep pick I'm not entirely sure where the complication comes in...
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#4
Palm muting is the same when sweeping but don't rely on it, left finger muting after each note is what makes it sound best
#5
Quote by PaulJMcGrath
like how do i combine the two, because i can palm mute and i can sweep pick.


... Nope, I'm still not really seeing what the issue is. Like... are you having trouble keeping the mute moving with the sweeping motion or what? Right now I really don't see how you can have tried this particularly hard and be having trouble with it
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#7
Quote by PaulJMcGrath
yeah, im having trouble with keeping the mute moving with the sweeping motion.


Right... well... to be honest I think this is just going to be a matter of practice. The problem is probably that you're trying to palm mute too hard; you're not going to be able to get that aggressive tone out of a sweeping motion since everything about it is so gentle (apart from maybe the top and bottom notes if you're trying). If you want to get a more aggressive sound out of arpeggio playing I would suggest looking more in to Paul Gilbert style string skipping.

If you want to get it to work though... the palm mute is going to have to be light so you can keep the picking motion smooth and even.
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#8
Quote by Tempoe
Palm muting is the same when sweeping but don't rely on it, left finger muting after each note is what makes it sound best


This.The heavy lifting in muting when sweeping, is done by the left hand .
#9
Quote by Tempoe
Palm muting is the same when sweeping but don't rely on it, left finger muting after each note is what makes it sound best


Quote by Dreamdancer11
This.The heavy lifting in muting when sweeping, is done by the left hand .


Ok, somewhere along the line someone is getting palm muting and pick hand muting mixed up and I don't really know if it's TS or you two.

Just for clarity:

Palm muting is muting with the picking hand to get a tonal change.

Pick hand muting is using your picking hand to keep the strings quiet when they need to be.

Tempoe, Dreamdancer, this is aimed as much at you guys as TS since you seem to be taking "palm muting" to mean something that no one has actually meant it to mean for as long as I've been playing.

While I'm at it as well: the pick hand has just as much of a role in muting at any time as the fretting hand does. They cover different strings at different times and at no point should one be ignored over the other since together they form a complete system that neither can be on its own. Subscribing to the Guthrie Govan school of thought is the best way of going about it: at any point any spare flesh should be muting whatever it can comfortably reach.
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#10
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Ok, somewhere along the line someone is getting palm muting and pick hand muting mixed up and I don't really know if it's TS or you two.

Just for clarity:

Palm muting is muting with the picking hand to get a tonal change.

Pick hand muting is using your picking hand to keep the strings quiet when they need to be.

Tempoe, Dreamdancer, this is aimed as much at you guys as TS since you seem to be taking "palm muting" to mean something that no one has actually meant it to mean for as long as I've been playing.

While I'm at it as well: the pick hand has just as much of a role in muting at any time as the fretting hand does. They cover different strings at different times and at no point should one be ignored over the other since together they form a complete system that neither can be on its own. Subscribing to the Guthrie Govan school of thought is the best way of going about it: at any point any spare flesh should be muting whatever it can comfortably reach.



You can call it palm muting or lightly resting or pick hand muting or whatever...its the same motion.Its actually very useful for the strings that are totally exposed but if you rely on it for the fretted notes more than the left hand it has one major disadvantage:
It alters the fretted note,even slightly by dumpening it...that clears most of the noise of course but you never get to hear the pure note only a choppier slightly muted version of it.

Now if you use mainly your left hand the note rings pure and when you want to kill it you ease the pressure on the string and it gets killed instantly...that way you have perfect muting,no noise(with...pick hand muting you have milliseconds of little noise in between too) AND you hear the pure note not a choppier version of it.Of course combining both is the best but the right hand is taking care most of the totally open strings.The serious muting is done by the left hand at least if you want ultra clean sweeps and not slighlty percussive half raked ones.....
Last edited by Dreamdancer11 at Jan 6, 2014,
#11
Quote by Dreamdancer11
You can call it palm muting or lightly resting or pick hand muting or whatever...its the same motion.Its actually very useful for the strings that are totally exposed but if you rely on it for the fretted notes more than the left hand it has one major disadvantage:
It alters the fretted note,even slightly by dumpening it...that clears most of the noise of course but you never get to hear the pure note only a choppier slightly muted version of it.

Now if you use mainly your left hand the note rings pure and when you want to kill it you ease the pressure on the string and it gets killed instantly...that way you have perfect muting,no noise AND you hear the pure note not a choppier version of it.Of course combining both is the best but the right hand is taking care most of the totally open strings.The serious muting is done by the left hand at least if you want ultra clean sweeps and not slighlty percussive half raked ones.....


Ok, absolute clarification:

Palm muting is using the picking hand to mute a string that you want to sound, thus achieving the palm muted sound common to metal.

Pick hand muting is damping strings that you don't want to sound. Particularly useful if you're playing around harmonic nodes and just lifting your finger doesn't work so well.

These are very different. You can very easily do one without the other in both combinations.

For the cleanest playing you need fretting and pick hand muting.

I almost can't believe I have to say this but in the purely written medium of the forum clearly defined terminology is absolutely crucial to understanding. You can't hand wave away some words just because you know exactly what you mean; everyone else needs to as well. Commonly understood terminology is the only way this place works, thus "palm muting" and "pick hand muting" are not only different but must be understood to be different.
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#12
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Ok, absolute clarification:

Palm muting is using the picking hand to mute a string that you want to sound, thus achieving the palm muted sound common to metal.

Pick hand muting is damping strings that you don't want to sound. Particularly useful if you're playing around harmonic nodes and just lifting your finger doesn't work so well.

These are very different. You can very easily do one without the other in both combinations.

For the cleanest playing you need fretting and pick hand muting.

I almost can't believe I have to say this but in the purely written medium of the forum clearly defined terminology is absolutely crucial to understanding. You can't hand wave away some words just because you know exactly what you mean; everyone else needs to as well. Commonly understood terminology is the only way this place works, thus "palm muting" and "pick hand muting" are not only different but must be understood to be different.


The motion and the whole mechanics of the things are the same.You dampen the strings to a degree thus no pure naturally ringing notes.In palm muting for metal that is what you want no doubt, but in fast sweeping-and not raking- its not.Even in linear scalar playing you hear people play choppy notes without ever hearing the note ring naturally.They simply cant do it cause with right hand muting alone they ll either leave too much noise -if they dont use it-or they ll make all the notes clean but also choppy and muffled.They cant make clean notes to ring naturally without noise.
Last edited by Dreamdancer11 at Jan 6, 2014,
#13
Quote by Dreamdancer11
The motion and the whole mechanics of the things are the same.You dampen the strings to a degree thus no pure naturally ringing notes.In palm muting for metal that is what you want no doubt, but in fast sweeping-and not raking- its not.Even in linear scalar playing you hear people play choppy notes without ever hearing the note ring naturally.They simply cant do it cause with right hand muting alone they ll either leave too much noise -if they dont use it-or they ll make all the notes clean but also choppy and muffled.They cant make clean notes to ring naturally without noise.


More clarity:

Palm muting you dampen the strings while you're playing them.

Pick hand muting the strings are either never played or you do it to silence them when you no longer want them to sound. If it's making things sound choppy then you're doing it wrong.

The motion and mechanics aren't necessarily the same either, I actually use my thumb for pick hand muting (especially when sweeping) where, as with most other people, I use the heel of my hand for palm muting.

And at no point did I say that pick hand muting alone was enough for anything, in fact I expressly said that you should use both when ever possible.
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Last edited by Zaphod_Beeblebr at Jan 6, 2014,
#14
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
More clarity:

Palm muting you dampen the strings while you're playing them.

Pick hand muting the strings are either never played or you do it to silence them when you no longer want them to sound. If it's making things sound choppy then you're doing it wrong.

The motion and mechanics aren't necessarily the same either, I actually use my thumb for pick hand muting (especially when sweeping) where, as with most other people, I use the heel of my hand for palm muting.

And at no point did I say that pick hand muting alone was enough for anything, in fact I expressly said that you should use both when ever possible.


Palm muting, pick muting, thumb muting, or ....whatever muting as long as it comes from the right hand it is basically the SAME principal.Even if you touch the strings just so, the note is not ringlng naturally.Sometimes thats the effect you want but sometimes isnt and if you rely on right hand muting heavily you simply lack the second option.

Especially in sweep picking the disadvantages become very apparent cause several strings are crossed very fast with most of the times only one note played on them.....whoever relies heavily on the right hand is either noisy or choppy or both but never produce totally clear ringing notes.
Last edited by Dreamdancer11 at Jan 6, 2014,
#15
Quote by Dreamdancer11
Palm muting, pick muting, thumb muting, or ....whatever muting as long as it comes from the right hand it is basically the SAME principal.Even if you touch the strings just so, the note is not ringlng naturally.Sometimes thats the effect you want but sometimes isnt and if you rely on right hand muting heavily you simply lack the second option.

Especially in sweep picking the disadvantages become very apparent cause several strings are crossed very fast with most of the times only one note played on them.....whoever relies heavily on the right hand is either noisy or choppy or both but never produce totally clear ringing notes.


https://ariyauk.bandcamp.com/track/sanctuary

Skip to 8:05. The vast majority of the muting on the ascending sweeps is pick hand muting.
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#16
Again for the last freaking time there is no pick hand muting as a term....there is right hand muting the encapsulates everything....either you use your thumb(like tom hess) or you use your..karate chop like most people this is right hand muting....if you use it like a secondary helper to the left hand its great but if your rely on it for most of the muting duties you have noise or choppy notes..... the audio example you posted doesnt really prove a thing sorry.....

Anyone can do an experiment if he wants:Sweep an arpeggion only with left hand muting and you ll get only a bit noise from the totally exposed strings.Sweep the same with only right hand muting and you ll either hear noise from everywhere or muffled noise or a combination.Using the two together is a no brainer of course but they arent equally effective when it comes to getting clean notes ringing.Its more like 80%-20% for the left hand.
Last edited by Dreamdancer11 at Jan 6, 2014,
#17
Ok Dreamdancer time to stop being so nitpicky and argumentative.

Most people pick with their right hand therefore it's fair to accept that the terms "pick hand muting and "right hand muting" mean THE EXACT SAME THING. However palm muting to get a chuggy sound when you pick is a different action and a different goal to using your fingers or other bits of your picking hand to mute sympathetic vibrations and stop strings ringing out after you've picked them.

the threadstarter never asked about muting with his fretting hand, only about palm muting whilst sweep picking. Whilst it's perfectly possible that there's some confusion and he did indeed mean muting with the fretting hand that doesn't change the fact that he specifically asked about palm muting. Zaphod subsequently attempted to answer that specific query. You evidently assumed he meant something else then proceeded to answer a question he hadn't actually asked. If you think the threadstarter might be getting muddled up then ask him, don't just steamroller the thread with your own assumptions.

You're now having an argument over semantics, and as far as I can tell it's for no other reason than for the sake of arguing.

Please stop it.
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#18
The threadstarter basically asks how to mute effectively.He said he knows how to palm mute and asked how he can do it using the sweeping motion assuming thats something different about it when sweeping or assuming its the only way to clean his sweeps.

Either way Tempoe and i replied to the heart of the problem.Basically we said " look at your left hand mainly for muting when sweeping and not on the right".Thats all.
#19
I'd like to add that the left hand mainly covers the muting of the treble strings whereas you definitely need a steady right hand in order to mute the bass strings.. Try to sweep an arpeggio with your right hand floating in the air and you'll see what I mean.
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#20
Quote by Dreamdancer11
The threadstarter basically asks how to mute effectively.He said he knows how to palm mute and asked how he can do it using the sweeping motion assuming thats something different about it when sweeping or assuming its the only way to clean his sweeps.

Either way Tempoe and i replied to the heart of the problem.Basically we said " look at your left hand mainly for muting when sweeping and not on the right".Thats all.

No, he didn't - that's you assuming something.

He simply asked how to plam mute and sweep at the same time. He never mentioned anything about "cleaning up" his sweeping, just about palm muting.

If you're not sure what someone meant then the polite thing to do is to ask them what they meant, rather than simply tell them which is what you did.
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#21
Quote by steven seagull
No, he didn't - that's you assuming something.

He simply asked how to plam mute and sweep at the same time. He never mentioned anything about "cleaning up" his sweeping, just about palm muting.

If you're not sure what someone meant then the polite thing to do is to ask them what they meant, rather than simply tell them which is what you did.


Only the threadstarter can give a definitive answer.Cause many people say palm mute and in their mind its the only way to clean up the playing especially when sweeping arpeggios. As for the politeness of the whole thing show me where did i offended the threadstarter with my comment.I gave him an answer to what i believe its best, if this isnt what he wants then he can skip to the next post.
#22
My point exactly. So next time ask for clarification before derailing the thread with an argument.

I doubt you offended the threadstarter but that's not why i pulled you up. I pulled you up for being argumentative and being more concerned with pushing your point across than ultimately answering the question.

To be honest I was expecting something along the lines of "sorry, got carried away there, my bad" but what worries me is that you don't seem to think you've done anything wrong.
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#23
Quote by steven seagull
My point exactly. So next time ask for clarification before derailing the thread with an argument.

I doubt you offended the threadstarter but that's not why i pulled you up. I pulled you up for being argumentative and being more concerned with pushing your point across than ultimately answering the question.

To be honest I was expecting something along the lines of "sorry, got carried away there, my bad" but what worries me is that you don't seem to think you've done anything wrong.


Well i wasnt the one starting the whole pick muting vs palm muting...Zaphod did to my comment.So i havent really started anything i was basically agreeing with Tempoes comment and explaining in detail why i agree while commenting on the whole pick muting thing that HE(zaphod) brought up.
#24
Nothing's ever your fault I take it?

Zaphod was trying to keep the thread on track but this has nothing to do with him.

Regardless the discussion's over now - please try and keep the thread on topic from now on, i don't want to have to resort to warning people.
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#25
Oh, how I wish I still had the giant Sweep Picking thing I had written up on this site back in the day.

So let's see. Paul, you've asked about keeping the palm mute moving with the sweep. As Zaph has correctly tried to explain, the right hand essentially has two separate functions pertaining to muting, both of which can pertain to sweep picking. They are:
1. Muting a string while you play it, in order to give it a different tone.
2. Muting a string before/after you play it, in order to keep it quite while you play other strings.

Since I don't know exactly which one you are talking about here as you haven't clarified it, I'll talk about both.

First up, the technique commonly used for each:

#1. This is what is somewhat more commonly thought of as palm muting. Typically, means the palm of the hand muting the strings very near the bridge, as any farther from the bridge will completely deaden the tone of the note you play. Any part of the hand other than the palm will thus be to far from the bridge, and you end up with palm muting.

#2. This is the one Zaph and many others refer to as pick hand muting, though it is not completely incorrect to call it palm muting as well, but there is a lot more flexibility here. Since the goal here is to keep the strings completely silent, you can mute the strings further from the bridge, even over the pickups or inline with your pick. This also opens additional parts of the hand that can help with muting, such as the flesh at the base of the thumb. Of course, you can also use pretty much the same technique as described in #1.

With the basic technique out of the way, we can address how to incorporate them into your sweeping.

In sweep picking, a major emphasis for the right hand is smooth movement. You should be making one continuous motion in a given direction for the sweep, not an individual motion for each string. Thus in order to combine either type of muting with your sweep, you simply need to figure out how to change your hand position so that you are performing your desired muting throughout the motion of the sweep. You will have to play around and see what works for you. It may be a different position for your down stroke and your up stroke, and it doesn't hurt to get comfortable using several different techniques.

Basically, whatever type of muting you're doing, some combination of rotating/flattening/bending the wrist will bring some part of your hand into contact with some part of the strings. It could be the flesh beneath your thumb near the pickups or the lower corner of your palm on lower pitched strings than the one you're playing, side of the palm on strings you're currently playing, or corner of the palm near the pinky's base on higher pitched strings than the one your playing, or something else that works for you. Some additional rotation/bending/straightening of the wrist may be necessary to transition between the muting on the upstroke and downstroke.

As one final option, if you are specifically trying to mute the strings as you play them for a different tone (option 1 above), you can essentially anchor the palm across all of the strings near the bridge and use a movement of the thumb and forefinger along with some rotation of the rest of the hand to execute the picking motion.

So basically, what it comes down to is:
1. Define what specific goal you are trying to accomplish with muting/sweep picking.
2. Figure out how you can hold your hand so that the desired part of your hand is in contact with the desired strings throughout the duration of the sweep.
3. Practice until you are comfortable using the technique.

Hope that helps.

P.S. If the goal is more in line with #2 of the two muting situations I described, additional practice with fret hand muting will help as well.