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#1
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25657949

I've seen a lot of outrage on Facebook about this. I'm looking forward to the inevitable shitstorm in this thread.

Discuss.

EDIT:

For those who aren't from the UK or just don't know the situation:

Basically, a couple of years ago a police operation to take guns off the street resulted in this guy getting shot and as a result, dying. He was being followed due to some intelligence that he was off to buy a gun from some weapons dealer, and so was pulled over by the special armed police unit to arrest him and get the gun.

There was a bit of a shitstorm surrounding the police and witness accounts of what happened and whether he tried to shoot the police, whether had a weapon at all, whether he was a gangster or not (I think his family still maintain he wasn't), etc etc but the upshot is that he got killed by the armed police.

This is what triggered the massive country-wide riots for a week or so afterwards (though I'd strongly debate how much they really had to do with this guy getting shot).

The court has just decided that it was a "lawful killing", and a lot of people are unhappy about that.

Oh and also he was "black" (mixed race actually, but whatever), so obviously people were even more up in arms about the police killing him.
Last edited by MadClownDisease at Jan 9, 2014,
#3
I can understand his family and friend's distress, but if what has been reported is true, they behaved disgracefully in court and there is no justification for that.
"If God exists, there's no way he is French" - Andrea Pirlo

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#5
Quote by Telecaster7
Oh dear, current affairs...


ima gonna sig that for now
Quote by Telecaster7
Oh dear, current affairs...
#8
I hope there won't be riots this time.
"If God exists, there's no way he is French" - Andrea Pirlo

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#9
Quote by SkepsisMetal
inb4 Britain gets set on fire by chavs again

That is a bit of a concern, but luckily it's really cold and bad weather at the moment.

I honestly think if it had just rained in 2011 when the last riots were, they would've stopped a LOT earlier.
#10
Quote by MadClownDisease
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25657949

I've seen a lot of outrage on Facebook about this. I'm looking forward to the inevitable shitstorm in this thread.

Discuss.



Good verdict.


I spent a lot of my teens hanging out in that area so my opinion is the most valid in this thread.
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


O__o
#11
The worst shit is the family saying 'He wasn't a gangster, he wasn't a thug'.

How do you know?

People lie, all the time. I understand that people don't want to accept the truth but putting it in the media as a quote is a mistake (especially if he is and was into really shady shit).
OUT OF ORDER
#12
I'm not sure how they decided he didn't have a weapon drawn, but his killing was still lawful.
#13
Quote by psyks
I'm not sure how they decided he didn't have a weapon drawn, but his killing was still lawful.


Because in hindsight and with all the evidence, it appears he didn't have the gun in his hand. But the officer (who didn't have that evidence etc) may have genuinely believed that there was a gun and that Duggan was acting in a threatening manner.

And if you believe your life is in danger, you're going to use force in self defence.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#14
Quote by Lemoninfluence
Because in hindsight and with all the evidence, it appears he didn't have the gun in his hand. But the officer (who didn't have that evidence etc) may have genuinely believed that there was a gun and that Duggan was acting in a threatening manner.

And if you believe your life is in danger, you're going to use force in self defence.


Bingo.

Found lawful by a majority is a surprise to me. I knew it would probably come out with the right result, but I'm surprised given the public uproar surrounding this at the time they found a jury they were happy to use all things considered.

1977 Burny FLG70
2004 EBMM JP6
2016 SE Holcolmb
#16
Quote by Weaponized
Trigger happy cops claim another life, when is it gonna end England?

It's cute how they want to be like big brother America.
#18
Quote by deadsmileyface
there should be, actually.



Why?

1977 Burny FLG70
2004 EBMM JP6
2016 SE Holcolmb
#19
The guy seemed like a dangerous thug. All in the game though.

My question is though, since when do UK police carry firearms? The police I know carry around those pansy sticks.
Dance in the moonlight my old friend twilight


Quote by metal4eva_22
What's this about ****ing corpses? My UG senses were tingling.
#20
Quote by deadsmileyface
there should be, actually.

Those bastard small-business owners who are to blame got their just desserts during the last riots.
"If God exists, there's no way he is French" - Andrea Pirlo

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#21
My initial reaction

Quote by lambofgod127
btw im in hs and im almost 18 so if u do think she was flirting with me dont say that its wrong im almost a grown man.




༼ ▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ ༽ WE ARE ROB ༼ ▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ ༽
#22
Quote by Nero Galon
The guy seemed like a dangerous thug. All in the game though.

My question is though, since when do UK police carry firearms? The police I know carry around those pansy sticks.

I think there is a slight difference between tottenham and whereeverulyve in wales
You who build these altars now

To sacrifice these children
You must not do it anymore
#23
Quote by Nero Galon
The guy seemed like a dangerous thug. All in the game though.

My question is though, since when do UK police carry firearms? The police I know carry around those pansy sticks.


An unarmed Police force in England is relatively recent (historically speaking). Up until the 60s a most officers could carry a revolver if they so wished. Only after the flying squad ruined it for everybody did they start to make it a specialised role.

Dixon of Dock of Green is the reason most people hold the perceived impression of the traditional unarmed bobby than the actual reality. It's a pretty enduring image around the world.

But they have been armed in terms of specialised armed units since the late 60s onwards.

1977 Burny FLG70
2004 EBMM JP6
2016 SE Holcolmb
#24
Quote by Nero Galon
The guy seemed like a dangerous thug. All in the game though.

My question is though, since when do UK police carry firearms? The police I know carry around those pansy sticks.

I believe it was a specialist unit who set out to arrest him. It wasn't just some random copper pulling a gun on him. I could be wrong though.
"If God exists, there's no way he is French" - Andrea Pirlo

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#25
It would have been a dedicated Fire Arms team.

As stated 'normal' polce officers do not carry guns.

1977 Burny FLG70
2004 EBMM JP6
2016 SE Holcolmb
#26
Armed police get sent out when it's gun crime, whether the criminals have one on them or not. When they turn up then the guy has to just surrender immediately or get shot because they don't take chances when they are risking their lives and innocent people around them if the guy doesn't comply straight away.

Normal coppers have a baton and pepper spray if I remember correctly, there are armed police in parts of London but it's rare to see them on the street unless you are near somewhere that has a risk of terrorism.
#28
Quote by I.O.T.M
Those bastard small-business owners who are to blame got their just desserts during the last riots.


this
Eat your pheasant
Drink your wine
Your days are numbered, bourgeois swine!
#29
I think the police handled the situation fairly well. Yes he was unarmed at the time, but all things pointed to him having a gun. Gun crime in the UK is fairly serious unlike in America where a lot of crime involves guns. The police were slightly heavy handed but the unit that handled the scene are trained by the army so are perhaps less civil. They probably shouldn't have shot Mark but it was a close call. The witness statements are all so confusing and most of them go against one another. To be honest, I don't think we'll ever know what happened.
]
#31
Quote by MadClownDisease
Yeah, some people were outraged. On Facebook. What's your point?


The point being that morons are always outraged on facebook. So this was no different from any other day of pointless facebook outrage.
#33
Dunno what to make of this really.
I get the argument for it being lawful, and Duggan could well have been dangerous. But he didn't actually have a gun and he died for the wrong reason.
#37
Come on guys! Why is nobody getting riled up!? This is pretty much the UK's Trayvon Martin!

Except people can also get angry about police killing and abuse of power and that too! SOMEONE GET ANGRY SO WE CAN ALL ARGUE.


Quote by jugglingfreak
The point being that morons are always outraged on facebook. So this was no different from any other day of pointless facebook outrage.

Yeah and morons are always outraged in the pit, hence my excitement.

Quote by Dirge Humani
thats cute

Yeah yeah, I know polar conditions in the US etc etc.

Nevertheless, it is winter here. And there's been extensive flooding and storms over most of the UK.

Just saying I doubt people will bother rioting as much when it's not a nice summer's eve outside.
#39
Quote by falcon1439
The police were slightly heavy handed


Lol.

I can't say i disagree with this verdict though. From what i've read the best argument for him being innocent is his mum crying and claiming her son wasn't a gangster. Not suprised that didn't hold up in court.
#40
Duggan was armed, but he threw the gun out of the window of the cab before the Police got there. The Police didn't know that at the time, of course.

I think the officer made an incorrect decision to shoot him, but I think it was lawful. Duggan had possessed a gun, the police honestly thought he had it with him at the time, and the officer had a split-second decision to make. It's sad he died, but he put himself in danger and the Police had every reason to believe that he was a threat to them and the public.

To be honest, there wouldn't have been any outrage if the guy who died was white. Not because whites are oppressed or anything stupid like that, but the left-wing media wouldn't have been able to make out that it was a race issue if Duggan was white.
"If God exists, there's no way he is French" - Andrea Pirlo

S A D B O Y S
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