#1
Hey Guys!

So I bought a Shecter Omen 6 Extreme Tune-o-matic version. But for some reason, I feel that I'm not getting enough sustain out of it.

The guitar was made in 2010. The shop just cleaned it up, set it up , restrung it and gave it to me.

Could the sustain be affected by old age? Or any other factors?

Also, a more fitting question: How do I know that my sustain is proper? I just 'feel' that it's a little less. Is there any proper procedure to determine sustain?
Last edited by shawnkenneth at Jan 11, 2014,
#2
How is your vibrato technique?
What amp and FX are you using?

Sustain is a subjective subject one persons wants can be drastically different from another's.
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#3
not much info to go on. perhaps your pickups were readjusted as that would explain what you say. or maybe it's just you lol
#4
Quote by Robbgnarly
How is your vibrato technique?
What amp and FX are you using?


Still working on it. Not as good as I would want but I've just been playing for 4 years now.

Roland Micro Cube. I checked the sustain on the JC Clean setting. No FX of any kind.

Sustain is a subjective subject one persons wants can be drastically different from another's.


Quote by monwobobbo
perhaps your pickups were readjusted as that would explain what you say. or maybe it's just you lol


I agree 100%. As I said, I 'feel' that it's less than it should be. I''ve not tried too many guitars so I don't know how long a 'normal' sustain is (Can't count on online audio for that)

Basically, what I'm trying to find out is whether my guitar is giving me the maximum sustain that it can.
#5
Quote by shawnkenneth
Still working on it. Not as good as I would want but I've just been playing for 4 years now.

Roland Micro Cube. I checked the sustain on the JC Clean setting. No FX of any kind.


I agree 100%. As I said, I 'feel' that it's less than it should be. I''ve not tried too many guitars so I don't know how long a 'normal' sustain is (Can't count on online audio for that)

Basically, what I'm trying to find out is whether my guitar is giving me the maximum sustain that it can.


that depends on a bunch of factors some of which aren't the guitar but the pickups and amp as well as your playing. there is no "normal" to guage it to. what are you looking for in terms of sustain and what amp are you using.

oops saw micro cube after post
#7
Quote by monwobobbo
by the way that setting won't promote much in terms of sustain


Obviously I just assumed that using distortion and high gain wasn't the right way to measure sustain because it unnaturally enhances it.

Well, if I'm being specific: Quite a few G'N'R solos are what got me thinking. eg. November Rain, Knocking on Heaven's Door.

After thinking it over, I realize that the guitar is probably giving me the best it can, being a string through body and all.

The culprit must be the amp.

P.s: Pickups can affect sustain if set too high right? But I heard that Humbuckers spread out the magnetic field more than single coils, which shouldn't affect it as much. I'll adjust pickup height and check it out.
#8
Quote by shawnkenneth
Obviously I just assumed that using distortion and high gain wasn't the right way to measure sustain because it unnaturally enhances it.

Well, if I'm being specific: Quite a few G'N'R solos are what got me thinking. eg. November Rain, Knocking on Heaven's Door.

After thinking it over, I realize that the guitar is probably giving me the best it can, being a string through body and all.

The culprit must be the amp.

P.s: Pickups can affect sustain if set too high right? But I heard that Humbuckers spread out the magnetic field more than single coils, which shouldn't affect it as much. I'll adjust pickup height and check it out.


distortion often adds to sustain which is why players love an overdriven sound. humbuckers that are to close to the strings can have to much pull and kill sustain (same with single coils). for what you want you really need a tube amp as modellers often can't truly duplicate the sustain you seek. keep in mind that those solos were played much louder than you probably do as well. you may want to add in a little delay to fatten them up when you are playing.
#9
Quote by shawnkenneth
Obviously I just assumed that using distortion and high gain wasn't the right way to measure sustain because it unnaturally enhances it.


It's not really enhancing anything, just making it so that you can hear it going on longer because the signal is compressed.

Quote by shawnkenneth
Well, if I'm being specific: Quite a few G'N'R solos are what got me thinking. eg. November Rain, Knocking on Heaven's Door.


You need to be careful about comparing yourself to things like that, a solo like November Rain would have been recorded on a big ol' Marshall stack cranked up to 11 which is actually going to compress the signal quite heavily, then there's the fact that this would have been the best take out of however many it took to get it sounding perfect. Finally, be careful when you're listening to other people's solos, a lot of people trying to get the sound of huge sustain actually re-pick notes in time with drum hits and so on so it sounds like unending sustain but is actually just a trick.

Also: you made me listen to G'n'R. I don't like you now.
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#11
Slash also uses a TS pedal to boost his signal (JCM800/2555) which helps sustain a lot.
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#12
Tune-o-matic? String through? Sustain doesn't get much better than that! The only thing you are missing is neck-through instead of a bolt-on. Make sure your pickups aren't too close to the string as the magnet will stop the string vibration prematurely. I don't blame the amp. You could blame poor conductivity in a cheap cable, a poor setup, dead strings or poor technique.
#13
Quote by dimarzio77
Tune-o-matic? String through? Sustain doesn't get much better than that! The only thing you are missing is neck-through instead of a bolt-on. Make sure your pickups aren't too close to the string as the magnet will stop the string vibration prematurely. I don't blame the amp. You could blame poor conductivity in a cheap cable, a poor setup, dead strings or poor technique.


Exactly. The very fact that it has those features made me think that the sustain should be insanely long. Maybe I'm expecting too much.

Just to be clear, when you say 'poor technique' do you mean that I'm not holding strings down hard enough (Highly doubt it) ? Or something else?
Last edited by shawnkenneth at Jan 11, 2014,
#14
Quote by Mephaphil
Lol. Checking sustain on a clean setting. Funny shit!


Well, guitarists are always telling me that while testing out a guitar, always listen to the cleans. So I figured that it applied here too
#15
Quote by dimarzio77
Tune-o-matic? String through? Sustain doesn't get much better than that! The only thing you are missing is neck-through instead of a bolt-on.

This is false, Bolt-on done right has as much sustain as any other neck done right. The key is done right, with good quality woods and quality control which many cheaper guitars lack one or more
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Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
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Morley Bad Horsie 2
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#16
Quote by shawnkenneth
Well, guitarists are always telling me that while testing out a guitar, always listen to the cleans. So I figured that it applied here too


Yea, generally for the acoustics. Add a bit of distortion to check it out.
Last edited by Mephaphil at Jan 11, 2014,
#17
Maybe your getting slight fret buzz that is not allowing your strings to resonate thoroughly.
#18
Quote by Mephaphil
Lol. Checking sustain on a clean setting. Funny shit!


Actually, if you're checking the guitar's natural sustain, that's exactly where you check it. Otherwise, you're mostly checking the amp/pedalboard's compression.
#19
My best sustaining guitars (clean setting, not standing right next to the amp, etc.) have glued frets, ebony fretboards, neck-through or glued-neck construction, heavy/dense bridges (or bridges connected to sustain blocks), small/thick/dense bodies.

That's not to say that other guitars won't do as well, but I just don't own many bolt neck guitars, for example. One of the best I own is a Yamaha SG2000, followed by an early '80's Ibanez Artist AR300. One of the best that I don't currently own was a Travis Bean (solid piece of metal from tuners to tailpiece). I have found that glued frets seem to make a difference, since I've had a couple of guitars that I've superglued frets on (before/after).
#20
Quote by rickyvanh
Maybe your getting slight fret buzz that is not allowing your strings to resonate thoroughly.


I'll look into that. I'll raise the action and compare it.
#21
Quote by dspellman
Actually, if you're checking the guitar's natural sustain, that's exactly where you check it. Otherwise, you're mostly checking the amp/pedalboard's compression.


Yea technically, but who compares sustain clean? You add some gain and let rip. If you're testing it against any number of solos it will always fall flat because it won't have what they had, some gain. If you add similar conditions it levels the playing field.

Trying to hold a note as long as Paul Kossoff without some gain will result in a lack of sustain.
#22
cheaper guitar, likely shitty pickups (not sure but a guess as the few i have played have had them). it could be a 10+ piece body. i have seen it before. i sanded down a cheap LTD and it had a knot in the wood the size of a silver dollar and part of it felt out and i needed lots of bondo/filler.
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#23
Quote by Mephaphil
Yea technically, but who compares sustain clean? You add some gain and let rip. If you're testing it against any number of solos it will always fall flat because it won't have what they had, some gain. If you add similar conditions it levels the playing field.

Trying to hold a note as long as Paul Kossoff without some gain will result in a lack of sustain.


Pretty much everyone compared sustain clean in the mid 60's. That's why Clapton and Kossoff others ended up with the LP in the first place. That's why guitars evolved into beasts like the Travis Bean and the SG2000 and the Ibanez Artist AR300, and why there are 10 ounce brass sustain blocks screwed into the dense mahogany bodies and why there are heavy bridges screwed into them.

I still compare sustain clean because it tells me more than just how long it can hold a note; it also tells me what kind of tones will remain in the string rather than being absorbed by the various bits of the guitar.

And I still compare sustain clean because a guitar with less sustain needs more gain, or more compression, or a higher gate setting on a compressor and any number of tone-changing changes in the electronics. With a great naturally-sustaining guitar I can go cleaner with more of the natural guitar sound before the electronics need to kick in.

As an aside, I've got a couple of guitars with Fernandes Sustainers built in. In essence, I can hold a clean note until the battery runs out. I can have it add the octave harmonic to that note, or I can have it transition completely to that octave harmonic (and back again) without being anywhere near an amplifier, and without adding distortion or compression. Even then, it works better with a naturally-sustaining guitar than one with a lot of attack and decay.

Evaluating sustain clean is part of the whole point of finding a guitar with the tone you want. As you say, slapping a dirt pedal on a guitar "levels the playing field" and pretty much makes every guitar sound like every other guitar. It becomes a whole lot less important if you've got a maple top or lacquer paint or expensive pickups or an aftermarket bridge or a hundred-buck cord.
#24
You're telling me you're gonna play along to Whole Lotta Love clean and test the sustain that way? I don't believe it. You'd get your pedal, or a suitable amp and play it as it's meant to be played. Of course you'd check it clean but if you didn't check it with your setup then you'd be taking a massive risk.

Playing it clean would be a completely impractical way to test it. You need to know how well it performs playing the stuff you like to play, if that's distorted stuff, plug in and wail.

But of course, you're right in the sense that pedals etc do add to it, but anyone will any experience will know whether something is right or wrong.
Last edited by Mephaphil at Jan 12, 2014,
#25
Quote by Mephaphil
You're telling me you're gonna play along to Wish you were here clean and test the sustain that way? I don't believe it. You'd get your pedal, or a suitable amp and play it as it's meant to be played.

Playing it clean would be a completely impractical way to test it.

But of course, you're right in the sense that pedals etc do add to it, but anyone will any experience will know whether something is right or wrong.

What he is saying is that a guitar that sustains a note nice and long when not plugged in will sustain better when plugged in. My PRS sustains longer unplugged than most do, I chalk that up to better woods and craftsmanship. But a well made guitar will sustain just fine.
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#26
Yea, I know what he's saying, I just think it's as important to test the guitar in the capacity that you'll be playing it in.
#27
Sorry to bump this thread up, but just wanted to let you guys know that it was the action that was reducing my sustain. I've heightened it and it's much better. It was affecting the notes in my higher frets.

On a side note: Has anyone ever used 'Graphtech Black Tusq' saddles? My guitar seems to have one. Want to know how good they are compared to normal plastic saddles. I might use one on my acoustic.

Edit: I meant Nut, not saddle. Sorry.
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Last edited by shawnkenneth at Jan 14, 2014,
#28
I have never seen regular plastic saddles. They are normally metal of some kind, the better ones being made of brass. Graphtech is the only non metal saddles I have seen.
2002 PRS CE22
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Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
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#29
Quote by Robbgnarly
I have never seen regular plastic saddles. They are normally metal of some kind, the better ones being made of brass. Graphtech is the only non metal saddles I have seen.


Oops. Sorry, I meant A Graphtech Black Tusq Nut.. Apologiez..
Quote by slapsymcdougal
No, I judge people based on how similar they are to me.
The greater the similarity, the more of a total ****ing **** they are.


Metal is like an apple. Everything is good except for the core