#1
Hello everyone, I've an ibanez Gio for years and recently got it back out to play. I always remembering it having fret buzz and not being able to fix it. The same holds true today, unfortunately.

I've cleaned the body and hardware, conditioned the fretboard, and installed new strings.

The only thing I can imagine is something is up with the bridge. I've taken some pictures, maybe someone can tell me if they see anything? I notice the "bottom" bridge is kind of coming out of the guitar, like the screw holes and tilted toward the neck. Also, the strings are much further from the fretboard on the bottom of the neck then on the top.

http://imgur.com/a/XqBiF#0

Any input would be great appreciated!
#4
Thanks for the replies guys, this gives me a good starting place.

Can I check myself if the frets are level? Just use a ruler or an actual level perhaps?

Is the neck being staight good or bad? I'd imagine good but I wouldn't be surprised if they are meant to have a slight curve. Is there anything I can do to correct this?

thanks again guys!
#5
go to the setup thread.
the green link in my sig.

look at the first page.

you need to measure the neck's relief.
how to do that is explained. measure and post back here.

usually adjusting the action a little at the bridge helps, but you say that the action seems lifted near the bridge already.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
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#6
the action is very high. Does the fret buzz go away if you apply a lot of pressure when fretting a string?
#7
measure the neck's relief.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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#8
Ibanez Gio is a really low-quality guitar. I have tried to fix the very same guitar of my friend, but it just doesn't do it. The intonation of G-string is poor. There's no fix without changing the nut and/or the bridge. Imho you should save money for a little better quality guitar, because there is always (well extremely lucky ones excluded) quality problems with cheap guitars.

EDIT: Gio seems not to be A guitar, but a bunch of guitars. My friend's guitar has a floating tremolo with humb-single-humb pickup-setting and a stratocaster-style body.
Last edited by blacknex at Jan 12, 2014,
#9
Quote by kingking22
the action is very high. Does the fret buzz go away if you apply a lot of pressure when fretting a string?


YES that's exactly what happens. If I press down on a string very hard and pluck it....no buzz. But when I release it it buzzes like crazy. Same if i gently hold a string down and pluck it

I am looking into neck relief now, this is all very intimidating for me...
Last edited by llmercll at Jan 13, 2014,
#10
Quote by llmercll
YES that's exactly what happens. If I press down on a string very hard and pluck it....no buzz. But when I release it it buzzes like crazy. Same if i gently hold a string down and pluck it

I am looking into neck relief now, this is all very intimidating for me...


just
fret the Low E at the first fret, at the same time,
fret the Low E at the last fret, where the neck and body meet.

with both places held, look and see if the string lays on the middle frets 7-9th.

if it does, then you dont have enough relief.

so measure and post back. let me know if there's room at the middle frets when held, or if the string sits on the fret wire.

nothing to stress over there.
i've helped guys with this all day every day, and have figured out how to help online.

so trust me, focus on what im saying and i;ll let you know if i can help.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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Last edited by jj1565 at Jan 13, 2014,
#11
Quote by llmercll
Thanks for the replies guys, this gives me a good starting place.

Can I check myself if the frets are level? Just use a ruler or an actual level perhaps?

Is the neck being staight good or bad? I'd imagine good but I wouldn't be surprised if they are meant to have a slight curve. Is there anything I can do to correct this?


The neck should be straight with a very slight curve (now THAT sounds like a contradiction.. <G>. "Relief" allows the string a bit of room to vibrate. But the amount of relief is tiny; it should be less than the thickness of a brand new playing card (*not* a credit card). In fact, good techs measure relief with a set of even thinner sparkplug gap gauges.

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On most guitars, the truss rod runs from about the first fret only to the 16th or 17th, so you'll find that most folks will put a capo on the first fret, press down on the 17th fret and then measure the relief at about the 7th fret. If there's none at all, you'll usually need to loosen the truss rod a tiny bit (usually no more than 1/2 turn in total, but you're usually better to do this in tiny increments of 1/8th or 1/4 turn, let it settle and then remeasure).

A tech will check your frets for level with a couple of steel straight edges; one will be about 18" long, the other will be a shorter "rocker" straight edge that will be used to check groups of three frets at a time. Note that the fret rocker has four different lengths, because three frets high up on the neck are closer together than three frets down near the nut.



Some guitars exhibit a slight rise in the entire fretboard around the 16th fret (this is often called the Gibson Hump). The 18" straight edge will sometimes spot this, and the PLEK machine will always do so.
Last edited by dspellman at Jan 13, 2014,
#12
ok But you're talking about some guitars.

this kid is playing an ibanez gio, and will probably need more than a playing cards amount of relief.

if he wants to learn how to make his guitar playable, all he has to do, is follow my very simple instructions.

i've already started explaining what he needs to do, so
please don't add to the instructions.
or i won't be able to help him.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

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#13
Quote by jj1565
ok But you're talking about some guitars.

this kid is playing an ibanez gio, and will probably need more than a playing cards amount of relief.



There's nothing about an Ibanez GIO that can't be set up properly or that excuses poor action or that should prompt someone telling him to crank in too much relief. I've got an under-$200 Agile AL-2000 Floyd B stock that's playing brilliantly with very low action. It *did* need a bit of fret leveling (I was fretting out on a big bend at the 16th fret) before it could be set up properly. The original pricetag of a guitar isn't a factor.

I'm a little curious to watch your "look into my eyes, focus on what I'm saying and ignore all these other ignoramouses" technique here. Getting to the point where you have level frets is ordinarily the first step in the setup of any guitar. You're waving that off, apparently, and I think that's a mistake. This should be interesting to watch. Carry on.
#14
ok but this isn't about you.
he needs to measure his relief so he can see if making an adjustment
can make the guitar more playable. how much, if at all is yet to be determined.

I saw your post. you told him to have his guitar checked.

I started with instructions, so you felt you should add a paragraph.
it's pretty clear. anything else to say feel free to pm.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

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#15
Well by just looking at the pictures he posted it's obvious the bridge is set too high. It seems to be set about the highest it can go to. As is the stop tail. And the stop tail looks like it's actually being pulled forward out of the guitar probably due to the height of the bridge. I think the first step would be to lower the bridge and the stop tail and then start looking at relief.
#16
Quote by jj1565


I saw your post. you told him to have his guitar checked.



That's correct. The Fret Rocker alone would cost him about $25, and a tech would likely not charge him to take a quick look at the frets.
#17
$40-60 is about the going rate around here for a tech to make that guitar better than new. Might even let him watch. Then again, I'm sure the guy will look at it anyway and tell him what is wrong, what needs to be done, and even tell him how to diy if the guy has time and doesn't really feel like taking the kid's money for working on a cheaper guitar, free of charge.

I peed on a fire once. Why? It was a pissing contest, and I won, but the fire went out and we got cold.

EDIT: Finally got the images to load. Action is way too high - bridge, tailpiece, and probably pickups are too high. Got to an autoparts store and get a set of feeler gauges for like $2. Measure gaps like in the tutorials and report back.
Last edited by 1152 at Jan 13, 2014,
#18
Quote by jj1565
just
fret the Low E at the first fret, at the same time,
fret the Low E at the last fret, where the neck and body meet.

with both places held, look and see if the string lays on the middle frets 7-9th.

if it does, then you dont have enough relief.

so measure and post back. let me know if there's room at the middle frets when held, or if the string sits on the fret wire.

nothing to stress over there.
i've helped guys with this all day every day, and have figured out how to help online.

so trust me, focus on what im saying and i;ll let you know if i can help.



OK, I tested it using your method. The middle frets do not touch the string when I hold down the first and last fret on low E.

I also decided to lower the bridge and try and even it out, but by doing that I made the buzz considerably worse. I remember when I was younger I raised it high like that because it helped alleviate the buzz.

When I pluck my strings I notice they vibrate a lot. You know how you can kind of see the vibrations as a shadow around the string? Well it's huge.
Last edited by llmercll at Jan 15, 2014,
#21
waiting on jj1565. I was interested in what you were saying and hope you'll still give your input.
#22
Quote by llmercll
OK, I tested it using your method. The middle frets do not touch the string when I hold down the first and last fret on low E.

I also decided to lower the bridge and try and even it out, but by doing that I made the buzz considerably worse. I remember when I was younger I raised it high like that because it helped alleviate the buzz.

When I pluck my strings I notice they vibrate a lot. You know how you can kind of see the vibrations as a shadow around the string? Well it's huge.



ok do you think you could fit a couple of medium picks under that string, over the fret wire when you hold the first and last?
a little extra relief might help,

but i'm concerned because the (lower bridge) you mentioned earlier is actually the tailpiece.

adjusting that, will have an effect on the tension,
of the strings, and a small bit on action.

how about the two pegs on the bridge itself,
is that what you adjusted to raise it up?
are you sure you put the bridge facing the right way?


also, a really important question here is your string gauge.
im guessing you had all the strings off at the same time. that'll usually allow the neck to flatten out a bit,
but did you string with a different gauge too?

ok, i know it's a lot, but not a lot to adjust yet.

-just check the amount of relief, using a couple of guitar picks.

-check that the bridge isnt on backwards.
(which side does the intonation screws face)

-answer if you've adjusting the bridge height, not the tailpiece?

-and if you know the string gauge.

oh geeze,

Edit: ok i finally found your bridge pic from the side.
the tail and the bridge are too high. (like said) so your string angle is way off.
they Will need to be lowered. and then we need to start this again with relief, hopefully getting the guitar playable.
let me find a good pic for you here...

in this one he wraps strings around the stoptail, but here is one example, of how much lower we need to be, with the stop tail and some lower, with the bridge.



-first, let's lessen the tension on those strings before
lowering the bridge and stop tail.

dont lower the bridge all the way, tune up, check where the guitar is buzzing (which strings and frets)

and then post back with how the neck relief checked out after the adjustments.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A/GB&C WTLT Lists 2011
Last edited by jj1565 at Jan 15, 2014,
#23
Thanks for the fast reply, you're the best!

I definitely could not fit a few medium picks in the space I had when holding down both the first and last fret on low E. Maybe 1.

The strings are these and are new 10-46

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EEJ91I/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I actually adjusted the bridge and tailpiece. They were both super high but I lowered them both, though not quite as much as in the picture you posted.
#24
ok that's all really good.

what strings and at what frets, are they buzzing?
all strings and the first few frets?

also be prepared because we are probably going to need to add a little relief after.

also just so you know, the strings are fine,
and you would call them "10s" if you wanted to buy another set.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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Last edited by jj1565 at Jan 15, 2014,
#25
I'm not sure which frets, how can i tell?

the bass strings are the real culprits, with the low E being worst. the thinner strings aren't so bad.
#26
usually it's easy to tell.

when you pluck open strings you can't tell where they rub?


edit: a quick nut cut check.
do me a favor, also fret at the 3rd fret low E.
then while holding that fret, tap at the first fret to listen for a noise.
let me know if the string is laying on the first fret.

so when you hold between the 2nd-3rd, is the string a hair up from the 1st fret, is it making the tap noise?
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A/GB&C WTLT Lists 2011
Last edited by jj1565 at Jan 15, 2014,
#28
yeah the stop tail is still pretty high.
also, it's good that you arent getting any open buzz,

i'd have you run up and down the neck to find the worst buzz, areas, but first let's add a little relief,
then maybe you'll feel better about lowering the bridge and tail, because the tail even looks a little pulled forward, you know?

ok, so you can safely adjust the truss rod

1/4 turn counter clockwise. this is a very small turn.
Don't force the turn. use the correct wrench.

then play it again, see if it plays a little better, post back.


edit: also, maybe i should explain the stop tail a little.
yes yours is going to be higher than a perfect gibson, but this is because you have your bridge a little high, and you need a good string "break angle" after the bridge, towards the tail.

This keeps the string tension at a good pull, and secures the string in the saddle notches.

edit: also dont forget to do a quick nut cut check, because after adding relief, i have a trick if that's an issue here.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A/GB&C WTLT Lists 2011
Last edited by jj1565 at Jan 15, 2014,
#29
OK I loosened the truss rod 1/4 turn. No difference.

Then I adjusted the bridge and tail stop heights AND the truss rod a little more. Even with the tail stop and bridge very high, and the truss rod a FULL turn loose, the buzz is still there.

I'm not telling any difference with the truss rod adjustment, but making the bridge and tail stop higher does reduce, but not eliminate, the buzz.

I'm about to smash this guitar
#30
Stop adjusting the rod.
measure, let me know what the relief is, and
do the nut cut check.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A/GB&C WTLT Lists 2011
#31
Just to confirm, I'm measuring the distance between the bottom of the string and top of the 7-9 fret? If so it's about 1mm, a pick or penny can slide under. But even loosening a whole turn didn't change it!
#32
seems like you have enough relief, but it's still buzzing.
probably because the bridge angle is so bad.

I dont know where the buzz is coming from.
and i dont know if you have a nut cut issue.

those are important facts.
(because if the cuts are low that explains all of this.)
(if the buzzing is at the very last frets, it's different then if it's at the top frets, or if it's at one specific fret.)


so that leaves me with a best guess here.
Id say, if it were my guitar, i would check the nut cuts.

and if That's not the issue, then i would put the tail down where it belongs, lower the bridge, then swap out one string at a time for 11's.

then report back with what strings, and what frets are buzzing.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A/GB&C WTLT Lists 2011
Last edited by jj1565 at Jan 16, 2014,