#1
I have a Fender Mustang II amplifier which I always used headphones for. The headphone jack, being the cheap plastic it is, has broken off and doesn't work now.

I've been looking into 2 things. Finding an alternative way to use headphones for my amplifier or finding someway to just connect my guitar to my PC.

I've used the USB input on my amp and connected it to my PC but there always seems to be some latency when using Audacity live playback and it's really annoying. (maybe because I'm using ASIO4ALL?)

If I buy some device to connect my guitar to my PC, the one thing I'm wondering is how would I change the tone? If I wanted to add something like distortion there wouldn't be any knobs to turn so how would I do things like that?
#2
You might want to check out something like a portable digital modeler- most have some kind of removable digital media or USB connection.

Boss Micro-BR 4 track
http://www.guitarcenter.com/-i1169092.gc

Boss Micro-BR 80
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BR80/

Pocket POD
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Line-6-Pocket-POD-Guitar-Multi-Effects-Processor-104391875-i1173933.gc

Tascam GT-R1
http://www.guitarcenter.com/TASCAM-GT-R1-Portable-Guitar-Bass-Recorder-105125306-i1401677.gc
http://www.guitarcenter.com/TASCAM-DR-1-GT-R1-Accessory-Kit-105020473-i1402140.gc

Korg Pandora Mini
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Korg-Pandora-Mini-PXMINI-Guitar-Multi-Effects-Processor-H70754-i1746466.gc

Korg Px4
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Korg-Pandora-PX4D-Guitar-Multi-Effects-Processor-103381554-i1124641.gc

Korg Pandora Stomp
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PandoraSTOr/

Korg Px5
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Korg-Pandora-PX5D-Guitar-Multi-Effects-Processor-104821715-i1387080.gc

Here is a visual comparison of (left to right) Tascam, my PX-5 and one of my Px4s to my old Aiwa cassette player:



Only the Tascam has decent acoustic recording capacity. All DO have features like tuners, metronomes, drum synthesizers, and digital amp & pedal modeling.

So with decent headphones, you can rock out like you were playing Texas Stadium. And yes, they are all about the size of an old Walkman.

The ones I own: the Tascam has the external mics, a phrase trainer (loop & slow down stuff for practicing), and takes SD cards. Both it and the PX5 can connect directly to your computer via a USB port. The PX4 is discontinued, but it can still be easily found. It is less powerful than the PX5, but, oddly, the PX5 does not have a belt/strap hook.

The ones I don't own: The Line6 PocketPOD is, I believe, the most popular device like this; the Boss might be the most powerful (and priciest); the Pandora Mini is the smallest (its about the size of a stack of business cards), cheapest, and least powerful.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#3
I just connect my guitar straight to my sound card. I don't use anything in between the guitar the PC as I don't see the point. I have a soundcard with ASIO drivers. These are sound drivers for the PC which reduce input delay from the guitar to the PC. These drivers can be downloaded also for mostly any sound card. The software I generally use for guitar tones is Amplitube but there's many types of software which can be used to simulate different guitar amps, Amplitube is just one of many.
#4
Quote by kingking22
I just connect my guitar straight to my sound card. I don't use anything in between the guitar the PC as I don't see the point. I have a soundcard with ASIO drivers. These are sound drivers for the PC which reduce input delay from the guitar to the PC. These drivers can be downloaded also for mostly any sound card. The software I generally use for guitar tones is Amplitube but there's many types of software which can be used to simulate different guitar amps, Amplitube is just one of many.

Don't do this.

Go to the Recordings forum & read the Interfaces sticky.
Gibson LP Traditional, LP GT, LP Studio, SG Standard x2
Barber Tone Press > EHX Worm >TC Polytune > MXR Custom Badass 78 > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
Laney VC30
Marshall TSL602
Jet City JCA22H
.
My SoundCloud
#5
Quote by inuyasha555
I have a Fender Mustang II amplifier which I always used headphones for. The headphone jack, being the cheap plastic it is, has broken off and doesn't work now.

I've been looking into 2 things. Finding an alternative way to use headphones for my amplifier or finding someway to just connect my guitar to my PC.

I've used the USB input on my amp and connected it to my PC but there always seems to be some latency when using Audacity live playback and it's really annoying. (maybe because I'm using ASIO4ALL?)

If I buy some device to connect my guitar to my PC, the one thing I'm wondering is how would I change the tone? If I wanted to add something like distortion there wouldn't be any knobs to turn so how would I do things like that?


Are you using Fender Fuse?
Actually, I go by Dave, but there are already too many Daves on this forum.


Fender MIM Stratocaster
Fender Jaguar Bass
Epiphone EJ200 Super Jumbo
Fender Excelsior 13w
Acoustic B300HD (with matching 1x12 cab)
BOSS BD-2W
NYC Big Muff Pi
#6
I have a recording interface, and I plug my guitar directly into that. It works well for me for practicing, since I tend to practice during quiet hours.

GaryBillington, was the problem with the previous poster that he plugged directly into the sound card? Is plugging directly into the recording interface okay?
#7
I've got the Korg Pandora PX5D and an older PX3D for this. These are small, very portable (about the size of a pack of cigarettes) gizmos that have an extremely wide range of modeled amps, cabs and FX built in. Even better, there are some great practice tools, including a tuner, metronome, drum machine, bass line generator, MP3 player input, etc. There's a phrase trainer that will allow you to play the same section of a song over and over again. There's a pitch adjuster (some bands play in one key and then have the recording sped up) that will change the key but maintain the original tempo, there's a "slower-downer" that will adjust the speed without changing the pitch. And on my PX5D, at least, there's a USB interface that allows you to run from the Pandora to a computer and record. And, of course, there's a headphone jack.

The newer Pandora Mini is even smaller, with the same bunch of stuff. All of those will run off batteries OR an AC power supply, so you can practice anywhere.

If you're mostly going to be practicing near an outlet, consider getting the Line 6 Pod HD (the "bean" shaped version). With the slightly newer version coming out in a bit, these have been discounted to $199 (and you can bargain some of these guys to even less money). Thing is, this is a full-on professional-level modeling piece that's got accessory pedalboards for live performance, etc. And it still fits in the pocket of a decent gig bag.
#8
Quote by GeetarGal


GaryBillington, was the problem with the previous poster that he plugged directly into the sound card? Is plugging directly into the recording interface okay?


There's no problem with anything I've posted. I doubt GaryBillington actually knows what he's talking about. For starters he recommends someone to buy a audio interface when that's exactly what a sound card is.. It's an audio interface.
#9
Quote by kingking22
There's no problem with anything I've posted. I doubt GaryBillington actually knows what he's talking about. For starters he recommends someone to buy a audio interface when that's exactly what a sound card is.. It's an audio interface.

Seriously, don't do this.

The inputs on a PC/laptop that go direct to the internal soundcard aren't designed for having a guitar plugged into them, and it's not unknown for people to damage their soundcard by trying this. Some people have got it to work, but it's not recommended.

Both of you need to go read the Interfaces sticky in the Recordings forum.
Gibson LP Traditional, LP GT, LP Studio, SG Standard x2
Barber Tone Press > EHX Worm >TC Polytune > MXR Custom Badass 78 > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
Laney VC30
Marshall TSL602
Jet City JCA22H
.
My SoundCloud
#10
TS:

This is the driver you need to be using: http://www.fender.com/support/articles/fender-universal-asio-driver/

You should also be running the Fender Fuse software in the background to help with latency issues (I don't know why this works, but it does).
Actually, I go by Dave, but there are already too many Daves on this forum.


Fender MIM Stratocaster
Fender Jaguar Bass
Epiphone EJ200 Super Jumbo
Fender Excelsior 13w
Acoustic B300HD (with matching 1x12 cab)
BOSS BD-2W
NYC Big Muff Pi
#11
Quote by GaryBillington
Seriously, don't do this.

The inputs on a PC/laptop that go direct to the internal soundcard aren't designed for having a guitar plugged into them, and it's not unknown for people to damage their soundcard by trying this. Some people have got it to work, but it's not recommended.

Both of you need to go read the Interfaces sticky in the Recordings forum.



There is no way a low voltage musical instrument connected straight to a PC is going to blow the line in port on a sound card or motherboard. You're just talking non-sense for the sake of attempting to look like you know something.
#12
Quote by kingking22
There is no way a low voltage musical instrument connected straight to a PC is going to blow the line in port on a sound card or motherboard. You're just talking non-sense for the sake of attempting to look like you know something.

OK. You obviously know far more than all the companies that make interfaces because they realise what you are suggesting is a bad idea. I can't compare with that sort of knowledge, I only know that to use a PC for recording, you need equipment designed specifically so you can use a PC for recording.

But good luck shopping for a new PC when you break yours.
Gibson LP Traditional, LP GT, LP Studio, SG Standard x2
Barber Tone Press > EHX Worm >TC Polytune > MXR Custom Badass 78 > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
Laney VC30
Marshall TSL602
Jet City JCA22H
.
My SoundCloud
#13
Quote by GaryBillington
OK. You obviously know far more than all the companies that make interfaces because they realise what you are suggesting is a bad idea. I can't compare with that sort of knowledge, I only know that to use a PC for recording, you need equipment designed specifically so you can use a PC for recording.

But good luck shopping for a new PC when you break yours.


The companies would recommend buying their expensive external audio interfaces because obviously they want to sell their gear. But there's nothing wrong with sound cards, they're the same concept as a USB audio interface except they're connected to the motherboard internally and not connected externally via USB..

It's the same concept as an internal hard drive vs an external USB hard drive in a plastic chassis. What's the difference? nothing except the price, external hard drives cost more and are more consumer friendly and typically slower for the price, but that's all.

There's plenty of sound cards on the market which are actually aimed towards musicians and music recording and production. These sounds typically have ASIO and other features such as on-board switchable OP AMPS.

I use a PC for practicing guitar (not recording) and so I just use an affordable ASUS Xonar DS sound card. It cost roughly 30 pounds, has ASIO already featured on the sound card so there's little input delay. It also has a switch able OP AMP and 192KHZ recording and playback at 24bit. There's plenty of settings in the software which comes with the card such as EQ editor, mixer, effects, flexbass etc.. if I was looking for the same in a external audio interface it would probably cost 100 pounds and over because the consumer is paying for the manufacturing process of putting a audio interface into a shinny plastic chassis with buttons and which connects via USB.

Before I bought this sound card I used my on board Line In port, which didn't sound as good but was still perfectly liable for practicing. It didn't have ASIO so I used ASIO4ALL instead (which is the software version and can be used by all sound cards). Nothing has gone wrong with any of the components in the PC from connecting the guitar to the Line In port. And it's not something I would risk unless I knew it wouldn't cause any issues because I use a fairly expensive PC which I do not want to break.
Last edited by kingking22 at Jan 13, 2014,
#14
Quote by kingking22
There is no way a low voltage musical instrument connected straight to a PC is going to blow the line in port on a sound card or motherboard. You're just talking non-sense for the sake of attempting to look like you know something.

Yeah...good luck with that. Here's the thing: it does blow the line-in port. You know how I know? Because I blew mine out. I can't use headphones on my laptop anymore. DO NOT PLUG YOUR GUITAR INTO YOUR PC'S LINE-IN! EVER!

Quote by kingking22
There's plenty of sound cards on the market which are actually aimed towards musicians and music recording and production. These sounds typically have ASIO and other features such as on-board switchable OP AMPS.

And guess what? None of those companies recommend that you use the line-in port. Use a USB interface. That's what those are for.
Line-in ports are for plugging in a cord like earbuds or headphones. They are NOT designed to have 1/4" connection adapters. The voltage varies enough to blow out or damage the line-in port. Don't do it.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Jan 13, 2014,
#15
Quote by kingking22
The companies would recommend buying their expensive external audio interfaces because obviously they want to sell their gear. But there's nothing wrong with sound cards, they're the same concept as a USB audio interface except they're connected to the motherboard internally and not connected externally via USB..

It's the same concept as an internal hard drive vs an external USB hard drive in a plastic chassis. What's the difference? nothing except the price, external hard drives cost more and are more consumer friendly and typically slower for the price, but that's all.

There's plenty of sound cards on the market which are actually aimed towards musicians and music recording and production. These sounds typically have ASIO and other features such as on-board switchable OP AMPS.

I use a PC for practicing guitar (not recording) and so I just use an affordable ASUS Xonar DS sound card. It cost roughly 30 pounds, has ASIO already featured on the sound card so there's little input delay. It also has a switch able OP AMP and 192KHZ recording and playback at 24bit. There's plenty of settings in the software which comes with the card such as EQ editor, mixer, effects, flexbass etc.. if I was looking for the same in a external audio interface it would probably cost 100 pounds and over because the consumer is paying for the manufacturing process of putting a audio interface into a shinny plastic chassis with buttons and which connects via USB.

Before I bought this sound card I used my on board Line In port, which didn't sound as good but was still perfectly liable for practicing. It didn't have ASIO so I used ASIO4ALL instead (which is the software version and can be used by all sound cards). Nothing has gone wrong with any of the components in the PC from connecting the guitar to the Line In port. And it's not something I would risk unless I knew it wouldn't cause any issues because I use a fairly expensive PC which I do not want to break.

Before you further insult Gary's intelligence (and for the record, he's not even one to defend audio interfaces into computers usually as he prefers multi-track recorders for their hands-on approach), perhaps you should do some research into the matter yourself.

There are many reasons why plugging straight into your soundcard is a crap method of recording guitar (excusing the fact that a simple one-input guitar interface is literally cheaper than some guitar leads can cost) but if you want some...

1) Guitars are high-impedance instruments, and plugging into the line in or mic in on your computer gives a huge impedance mismatch which can do freaky things to the tone. It is also the same when using a proper microphone into the line in/mic in port.

2) Most stock soundcards are made of the cheapest components available - they don't have proper preamps, they don't have respectable A/D converters, and they have terrible signal to noise ratios with a really high noisefloor. They also have no gain control, meaning you can only try to turn up the input level in your DAW, which results in a load of extra noise trying to add sound that isn't there.

3) These soundcards are not even designed for professional use... they're simple afterthoughts placed on products so that, should the average computer user want to play some of their favourite music through the computer, it can do that (from an MP3 player or phone etc. ). It is not there for recording, and that is why they perform so badly. No amount of software drivers and post-EQ is going to fix a poor input. Start with a weak link in your chain, and you're only ever going to have a weak chain.

4) Decent soundcards (as in, PCI and PCIe cards which are essentially audio interfaces you install inside the computer yourself) are not only becoming rarer and rarer these days, meaning most are outdated by now, but they're also not cheap because all the entry level gear now is small one or two input USB interfaces designed for the 'budget' home studio enthusiast.


I'm not saying you need an audio interface to record demos of your guitar practice/song ideas at home, but there are plenty of better ways of doing things on the cheap than plugging into a cheap mic in or line in port of a cheap stock soundcard and expecting some software to work miracles.


P.S feel free to disregard my input, I only moderate the Recordings forum... where this thread technically belongs
Hey, look. Sigs are back.
#16
Quote by DisarmGoliath
snip



I never stated a cheap on-board audio is going to sound as good as a overpriced external USB interface. So really you're arguing a point which has never been made.

Your entire argument seems to be based around the quality of on-board sound vs a USB interface. Well of course the USB interface is going to sound better than stock on-board audio.

But to state that a USB interface will make any positive comparable difference vs a professional audio sound card designed for audio recording and editing is not really factual.

Most of the work does happen on the DAW spectrum, this is just a fact. An electric guitar sounds acoustic until it has gone through software modelling. It sounds no different to sitting there and playing the guitar unplugged. The audio interfaces aim is mainly to give a clear noise free sound and also to reduce input delay. And a good sound card does both of tasks.

Back to the discussion of the thread. The main argument happening here Is that there's talk of guitars blowing up sound cards when connected to the Line in Port. And this is pretty much just load of a rubbish. The OP asked how to connect his guitar to his PC for "practicing" (not recording professional audio). And that's pretty much what a Line-In port is there for. In can accept the voltage of a guitar without using a pre-amp in the chain. I believe even EMGs peak output is 4.5, so even a guitar equipped with active high output pickups would not blow the Line in port unless the PC used is far below nominal standards (10+ years old and ready to give out) or has a fault.

Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Yeah...good luck with that. Here's the thing: it does blow the line-in port. You know how I know? Because I blew mine out. I can't use headphones on my laptop anymore.


Most Laptops don't have "line in" ports. They have Microphone In ports which accept much lower voltages than "Line In". You shouldn't connect a guitar to a Microphone port, it can work but yes it will sound like crap and there's a risk involved because the Microphone port is only designed for the low voltage of a microphone.
#17
When I record, and half the time when I play at home I go like this:

Guitar > Focusrite 2i2 Interface > Reaper DAW > TH2 Overloud VST.

It's an awesome setup, especially so for my life between my apartment and hotels! My laptop, pedal, and interface even fit inside my guitar case, which is even cooler.

However, I still have my amps for live situations and band practice. I know there are tons of dudes that are rockin' Axe FX II for large concert halls, but they also have a couple racks of thousand dollar gear to keep it all how it needs to be.

It also is very hard to have the ability to change your sounds on the fly unless you have an interface and pedalboard system like a POD 500 into a larger interface that speaks specifically with a program like POD Farm or a program of the likes It is super cool to have the sounds you want precreated, exactly the same in every situation, easy to get to, and all that; but it does take a lot of making different expensive items communicate with one another to do it right. Most guitarists who run gigantic rigs live that are run off modeling software have paid techs that do it for them.


So! Knowing all that, my answer is this: For the bedroom and studio, it's a fantastic. I use modeling on my Mac all the time and I'm a big fan of it. For the live setup, however, it's usually cheaper by hundreds to get a good live setup with pedals and amps, than it is a computer. Ultimately, from my experience, it's easier, too.

If you've got questions about the different modeling VST's or stand alones, I've used a handful of them, feel free to send me a PM.


EDIT:


For some practical prices:


The Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 is my favorite guitarist's interface. Clearest inputs out of any that I've used from M Audio and Line 6. It's $149.99. My second choice is probably the M-Audio Fast Track which can be found on eBay with Pro Tools SE sitting in the box for $129.99 often enough on sale.

TH2 Overloud costed me $69.99 when I bought it. Not sure what it is these days. It's the one I liked best, probably because my first experience with modeling was POD Farm II, which I really liked the interface of, but that's a standalone. TH2 looks a lot like it.

The DAW you use is up to you. Reaper allows multi-MIDI tracks for drum programming, as well as simultaneous VST's for each other track... FOR FREE. Powerful stuff.


Quote by dspellman
If you're mostly going to be practicing near an outlet, consider getting the Line 6 Pod HD (the "bean" shaped version). With the slightly newer version coming out in a bit, these have been discounted to $199 (and you can bargain some of these guys to even less money). Thing is, this is a full-on professional-level modeling piece that's got accessory pedalboards for live performance, etc. And it still fits in the pocket of a decent gig bag.



I forgot about that! This is good advice, too.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
Last edited by JustRooster at Jan 13, 2014,
#18
Quote by kingking22
I never stated a cheap on-board audio is going to sound as good as a overpriced external USB interface. So really you're arguing a point which has never been made.

Your entire argument seems to be based around the quality of on-board sound vs a USB interface. Well of course the USB interface is going to sound better than stock on-board audio.

But to state that a USB interface will make any positive comparable difference vs a professional audio sound card designed for audio recording and editing is not really factual.

Most of the work does happen on the DAW spectrum, this is just a fact. An electric guitar sounds acoustic until it has gone through software modelling. It sounds no different to sitting there and playing the guitar unplugged. The audio interfaces aim is mainly to give a clear noise free sound and also to reduce input delay. And a good sound card does both of tasks.

Back to the discussion of the thread. The main argument happening here Is that there's talk of guitars blowing up sound cards when connected to the Line in Port. And this is pretty much just load of a rubbish. The OP asked how to connect his guitar to his PC for "practicing" (not recording professional audio). And that's pretty much what a Line-In port is there for. In can accept the voltage of a guitar without using a pre-amp in the chain. I believe even EMGs peak output is 4.5, so even a guitar equipped with active high output pickups would not blow the Line in port unless the PC used is far below nominal standards (10+ years old and ready to give out) or has a fault.


Most Laptops don't have "line in" ports. They have Microphone In ports which accept much lower voltages than "Line In". You shouldn't connect a guitar to a Microphone port, it can work but yes it will sound like crap and there's a risk involved because the Microphone port is only designed for the low voltage of a microphone.

Because all interfaces are so overpriced right?

You're talking about a 'professional audio sound card designed for audio recording', when was the last time you saw a PCI or PCIe card with an XLR input? I doubt they'd fit to be honest. USB and Firewire have long been the standard interfaces for pro audio because it's simply more practical. Also lets say these hypothetical sound cards that are designed to have a guitar plugged in directly are out there (there are a few), and are significantly cheaper than an interface (I highly doubt this). What do you think the chances are of the TS having one of these is? Because I would say there's a 99% chance they are using the inbuilt sound on their motherboard.

You keep falling back to "it can handle the voltage" but we're not denying that we're saying the impedance mismatch will damage it.

What you're saying is "This rock is hard enough to hit the nail into a block of wood, why should someone buy an overpriced hammer when they can just use a rock".
#19
Quote by kingking22
I never stated a cheap on-board audio is going to sound as good as a overpriced external USB interface. So really you're arguing a point which has never been made.

Your entire argument seems to be based around the quality of on-board sound vs a USB interface. Well of course the USB interface is going to sound better than stock on-board audio.

But to state that a USB interface will make any positive comparable difference vs a professional audio sound card designed for audio recording and editing is not really factual.

If that were the case, then your point is stupid because there are far more and cheaper audio interfaces than there are entry level 'professional audio sound cards'... but even still, I was comparing to stock soundcards because that was the argument at hand (going 'line in' - pro audio gear does not deal with 'line in' to hook up an instrument to preamps and converters).

Most of the work does happen on the DAW spectrum, this is just a fact. An electric guitar sounds acoustic until it has gone through software modelling. It sounds no different to sitting there and playing the guitar unplugged. The audio interfaces aim is mainly to give a clear noise free sound and also to reduce input delay. And a good sound card does both of tasks.

Absolute nonsense, sorry. An unamplified electric guitar sound nothing like a) an acoustic guitar, or b) a clean DI from an electric guitar. This is all before any software processing. Secondly, amp simulation has nothing to do with the signal quality or noise floor ahead of hitting the DAW - that is where the problem we're talking about occurs... before you reach any software. No amp sim will sound great with a poor quality input signal, no matter how much you try to polish the metaphorical turd.

Back to the discussion of the thread. The main argument happening here Is that there's talk of guitars blowing up sound cards when connected to the Line in Port. And this is pretty much just load of a rubbish. The OP asked how to connect his guitar to his PC for "practicing" (not recording professional audio). And that's pretty much what a Line-In port is there for. In can accept the voltage of a guitar without using a pre-amp in the chain. I believe even EMGs peak output is 4.5, so even a guitar equipped with active high output pickups would not blow the Line in port unless the PC used is far below nominal standards (10+ years old and ready to give out) or has a fault.

This is nothing mentioned in my post, and I mentioned impedance mismatches... not voltages. If others are talking about guitars blowing cards, I wasn't - maybe this is a confusion about taking the output of an amp and plugging that into the computer inputs, as that is a surefire way to damage your soundcard or worse (the output transformers of the amp, which are seeing an insufficient load/impedance).
Hey, look. Sigs are back.
#20
Quote by kingking22
Most of the work does happen on the DAW spectrum, this is just a fact. An electric guitar sounds acoustic until it has gone through software modelling. It sounds no different to sitting there and playing the guitar unplugged.


Actually, I go by Dave, but there are already too many Daves on this forum.


Fender MIM Stratocaster
Fender Jaguar Bass
Epiphone EJ200 Super Jumbo
Fender Excelsior 13w
Acoustic B300HD (with matching 1x12 cab)
BOSS BD-2W
NYC Big Muff Pi
#21
Quote by DisarmGoliath

amp simulation has nothing to do with the signal quality or noise floor ahead of hitting the DAW - that is where the problem we're talking about occurs... before you reach any software. No amp sim will sound great with a poor quality input signal, no matter how much you try to polish the metaphorical turd.


Everything you type out is mostly hyperbole. A on board sound card made on a modern motherboard is going to sound perfectly fine when using a guitar through the Line - In port. Especially for just practicing playing (which is what the original poster is looking to be doing).

If someone wants to start recording very high quality stuff, then ok.. spend some money on some top of the range gear. But for the discussion in this thread which is someone looking for a means to practice with headphones. Does he need a audio interface if he has a modern PC (desktop) with a Line In port?. Not very likely unless he actually wants to buy one to improve the sound.

And I've never actually discredited using a audio interface, I simply stated that I don't use one (because I don't record). I was then told I'm liable to blowing up someones PC by mentioning that I don't use a USB interface ....

Quote by DisarmGoliath
This is nothing mentioned in my post, and I mentioned impedance mismatches... not voltages. If others are talking about guitars blowing cards, I wasn't - maybe this is a confusion about taking the output of an amp and plugging that into the computer inputs, as that is a surefire way to damage your soundcard or worse (the output transformers of the amp, which are seeing an insufficient load/impedance).


Impendance matching. Since when has this been a concern for modern audio technology? Especially a LIne in port on a PC. If you're going to throw around phrases such as "Impendance matching" ahaha.. provide some proof of how impendance matching is going to effect connecting a guitar to a Line In port on a PC otherwise just don't bother because I"m not going to research it as it really just does look like a load of crap. Waste of time.
#22
Quote by JustRooster
When I record, and half the time when I play at home I go like this:

Guitar > Focusrite 2i2 Interface > Reaper DAW > TH2 Overloud VST.


.....and back to the op for a min - I've been trawling the recordings forum looking for an interface into iPad/mac.

Apogee have just updated their jam to 96k but having read this the 2i2 seems to do more, the only downside over the jam being portability.

Of course now I look at the 2i4 as it's only £30 more than the 2i2
#23
As I said in the interfaces thread, a £8 guitar link sounds better than using a line in socket.

You really don't need to use top range gear at all.

In the end you're argument has boiled down to "it's shitty but it works" I don't think anyone really claimed otherwise, but it's still not worth doing with all the other options available.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#24
Quote by -Ed-
.....and back to the op for a min - I've been trawling the recordings forum looking for an interface into iPad/mac.

Apogee have just updated their jam to 96k but having read this the 2i2 seems to do more, the only downside over the jam being portability.

Of course now I look at the 2i4 as it's only £30 more than the 2i2


The 2i2 is smaller than most books. Still fits in my guitar's hard case! It's been a great little interface for me.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#25
Quote by kingking22
if I was looking for the same in a external audio interface it would probably cost 100 pounds and over because the consumer is paying for the manufacturing process of putting a audio interface into a shinny plastic chassis with buttons and which connects via USB.

No - You would be paying extra because you'd be getting converters that are FAR better than your cheap sound card, that's aimed towards gaming, not recording. You'd be getting mic preamps that are actually useful, drivers that are optimized for low-latency recording and inputs that actually accept the correct level and impedance needed to record your instrument.

Line-level is made for... you guess it... LINE LEVEL sources. A guitar is not line-level, it is far from it. While it might work by cranking the gain up, you're not getting the correct gain staging and you're not getting the correct impedance. Input impedance on most pro-grade line-level inputs is around 20K... a guitar needs an input impedance upwards of 300K. Not only are you severely mismatching, which will cause your pickups to sound significantly different than they were meant to, but you're also screwing up your signal-to-noise ratio, because you're not putting in the correct level of signal. If you want to record properly into your computer this way, you'd use a DI box, which would convert your guitar's signal to mic level, and plug it into your mic port. Still, not the best solution on a consumer-grade sound card like this, but it's at least a far better solution than plugging into the line input.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#26
Quote by kingking22
Everything you type out is mostly hyperbole. A on board sound card made on a modern motherboard is going to sound perfectly fine when using a guitar through the Line - In port. Especially for just practicing playing (which is what the original poster is looking to be doing).

If someone wants to start recording very high quality stuff, then ok.. spend some money on some top of the range gear. But for the discussion in this thread which is someone looking for a means to practice with headphones. Does he need a audio interface if he has a modern PC (desktop) with a Line In port?. Not very likely unless he actually wants to buy one to improve the sound.

I wasn't responding to the TS though... I was responding to you (and your words to Gary), as implied by the fact I quoted your post. 'Modern audio technology' is nothing to do with this - stock sound cards are not aimed at the purpose you're talking about and professional sound cards (the few still in production) are much more expensive, generally, than an entry level guitar interface.

Impendance matching. Since when has this been a concern for modern audio technology? Especially a LIne in port on a PC. If you're going to throw around phrases such as "Impendance matching" ahaha.. provide some proof of how impendance matching is going to effect connecting a guitar to a Line In port on a PC otherwise just don't bother because I"m not going to research it as it really just does look like a load of crap. Waste of time.

Translation: "I don't know anything about this, therefore it's a load of crap because I'm too lazy to google it."

You're really helping your case with that 'point'
Hey, look. Sigs are back.
#27
Quote by kingking22
Most Laptops don't have "line in" ports. They have Microphone In ports which accept much lower voltages than "Line In". You shouldn't connect a guitar to a Microphone port, it can work but yes it will sound like crap and there's a risk involved because the Microphone port is only designed for the low voltage of a microphone.

That's great. I have a line-in port on my laptop, not a mic port. AND it doesn't work anymore. Because I was dumb enough to assume that I could just plug my guitar into it using a 1/4" adapter.

Fortunately for me, I didn't use the line-in port ever anyway. So, since the rest of the laptop works just fine, all I lost was the $5 I spent on the adapter. But hey...go ahead and disbelieve me.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Jan 14, 2014,
#28
Quote by MatrixClaw

Not only are you severely mismatching, which will cause your pickups to sound significantly different than they were meant to


Again feel free to prove that Impedance matching is going to actually change the sound of an electric guitar. If you don't have any proof to backup your claims why even make the claim. Am I supposed to just take your word for this? If that is the case then take my word for the fact that Impedance matching has nothing to do with modern audio technology. My proof is that my guitar sounds exactly the same on a clean channel through a PC as it does through a solid state amp. And if there is some kind of change in the tone it's not audible, so who cares.


Quote by DisarmGoliath



Translation: "I don't know anything about this, therefore it's a load of crap because I'm too lazy to google it."

You're really helping your case with that 'point'



This is is the problem with forums. People chuck around phrases and expect people to swallow it. Until you can actually prove you know what you're talking about then you're just another forum goer talking about something you don't know anything about. It happens everyday on a million forums.

"oh yes, oh yes.. but you can't use your guitar through your LIne in port.. because of... Impedance Matching... yes yes indeed. You have never heard of this? haha you fool you don't know anything"....

Sure... and as I stated I'm not going to waste my own time researching other peoples b.s. If you have just read about this impedance matching on a forum somewhere then you really shouldn't be talking about it like it's gospel. Unless you can find a article written by someone with credibility in electronics you basically have no argument and are just talking fluff.

At least you people can admit that a PC isn't going to spontaneously combust from connecting a guitar to it.
#29
kingking22: I'm not going to bother adding any further arguments to this. You're obviously convinced that you're right and no amount of facts are going to change that.

But please try to think about things this way - You're new here. Nobody knows you and therefore nobody has any reason to trust what you're saying. Compare that to the people you're trying to argue against: People who have been here a long time (in fact I'm possibly the longest standing active member of these forums). People who have earned respect through consistently providing good advice and contributing to the site. A couple of forum moderators. Even a couple of professional Studio Engineers.

Why should anyone have any faith in you when you come in here & immediately start telling us we're all wrong? It's just not going to happen.

If you want to join in & contribute, then fine - join in & contribute. But please do some research and learn about your subject so you can justify your opinions instead of just insulting people who you don't agree with. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if you were presenting any form of reasonable argument in favour of what you're saying it would be accepted. Unfortunately you aren't - you're suggesting the absolute worst possible solution. Something that has been known to cause damage to people's PCs - you're even denying this is possible despite the fact that someone here has told you it happened to them.

If you earn respect, you will be given it. However, you have to give others that respect as well. So far, you haven't done that.
Gibson LP Traditional, LP GT, LP Studio, SG Standard x2
Barber Tone Press > EHX Worm >TC Polytune > MXR Custom Badass 78 > EXH Glove > EHX East River Drive > Zoom G3 > TC Spark Mini Booster
Laney VC30
Marshall TSL602
Jet City JCA22H
.
My SoundCloud
Last edited by GaryBillington at Jan 14, 2014,
#30
Quote by GaryBillington
kingking22: I'm not going to bother adding any further arguments to this. You're obviously convinced that you're right and no amount of facts are going to change that.

But please try to think about things this way - You're new here. Nobody knows you and therefore nobody has any reason to trust what you're saying. Compare that to the people you're trying to argue against: People who have been here a long time (in fact I'm possibly the longest standing active member of these forums). People who have earned respect through consistently providing good advice and contributing to the site. A couple of forum moderators. Even a couple of professional Studio Engineers.

Why should anyone have any faith in you when you come in here & immediately start telling us we're all wrong? It's just not going to happen.

If you want to join in & contribute, then fine - join in & contribute. But please do some research and learn about your subject so you can justify your opinions instead of just insulting people who you don't agree with. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if you were presenting any form of reasonable argument in favour of what you're saying it would be accepted. Unfortunately you aren't - you're suggesting the absolute worst possible solution. Something that has been known to cause damage to people's PCs - you're even denying this is possible despite the fact that someone here has told you it happened to them.

If you earn respect, you will be given it. However, you have to give others that respect as well. So far, you haven't done that.



Also the fact that every single person in this thread disagreed with him. That should be a hint.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#31
Same old thing on every forum.. Oh we've been here a long time, you haven't. We're right you're wrong. If you want to start talking in-depth about a subject and come out with fairly complex clarifications such as "IMpendance Matching" then just post some documentation instead of attempting to send someone on a wild goose chase..

And more to the point the discussion was always about the safety of connecting a guitar to a line-in port (in terms of voltages). The entire discussion has been derailed into a subject matter which really I doubt anyone even cares about. I sure as heck don't care about it. If someone told me my guitar will sound different in a line-in port due to Impendance Matching, there for you must pay for a USB interface. I'd honestly tell them I don't give a toss. The guitar sounds exactly as I expect it would when I connect it to the Line-In port and that's all I care about. I don't notice any negative side effects, the channel is clean, virtually no background noise and a decent tone for software simulation.
Last edited by kingking22 at Jan 14, 2014,
#32
Quote by kingking22
Again feel free to prove that Impedance matching is going to actually change the sound of an electric guitar. If you don't have any proof to backup your claims why even make the claim. Am I supposed to just take your word for this? If that is the case then take my word for the fact that Impedance matching has nothing to do with modern audio technology. My proof is that my guitar sounds exactly the same on a clean channel through a PC as it does through a solid state amp. And if there is some kind of change in the tone it's not audible, so who cares.

Your ears must be broken, then.

http://www.csun.edu/~record/e_gtr2/all3_16.wav

First part is of the guitar plugged straight into the board (line input), second is through a DI box, third is through a Di that emulates a speaker. The mismatch is causing the guitar to sound flat and lifeless, because so much mid and high frequencies are lost.

From Sound on Sound's January 2003 edition:

The pickups generally used in electric guitars and basses are primarily inductive rather than capacitive (because of the coils used under the strings), and are also highly resistive simply because of the sheer amount of wire involved (typically up to 10k(omega)), although different styles and makes of pickup can vary enormously. Since the pick-up presents a relatively high output impedance, it is normal to provide guitar preamp and DI inputs with a hugely high input impedance. A minimum value is typically 470k(omega), but many are over 1M(omega) and a few, designed for accepting feeds from magnetic pickups in some acoustic guitars, are rated even higher than this.

If the input has too low an impedance, the most noticeable effect will be a loss of high end — in fact, even using guitar cables with too high a capacitance can audibly reduce high frequencies (see 'Impedance & Frequency Response' box for details of this effect). The sustain is also affected, giving a 'dead' sound.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#33
Quote by MatrixClaw
Your ears must be broken, then.

http://www.csun.edu/~record/e_gtr2/all3_16.wav

First part is of the guitar plugged straight into the board (line input), second is through a DI box, third is through a Di that emulates a speaker. The mismatch is causing the guitar to sound flat and lifeless, because so much mid and high frequencies are lost.

From Sound on Sound's January 2003 edition:


You're not using a sound card manufactured in 2003 for a modern reference are you? I hope not..

As I stated modern documentation. Not 11 years old documentation. I'm sure sound cards are built very differently now to what they were eleven years ago. I actually remember reading some where that Impedance Matching has no correlation to modern audio technology.

And back to the point. I'll b honest I don't really care about any of this stuff. I enjoy playing the guitar, and practicing playing the guitar. I'm not a audiophile so honestly I don't have the time for this stuff as it doesn't interest me. the point of the discussion was..

"can someone connect their guitar to their PC through the Line-In port without blowing up the port? due to voltages"...

Yes.. Does it sound like complete crap? no.. Maybe a decade ago it did but not with modern sound cards (they've come a long way). If you want to start discussing audiophilogy. Then well that's a different discussion for people who are interested in every minute detail of their sound. None of this really has a lot to do with the main topic which was at hand.
Last edited by kingking22 at Jan 14, 2014,
#34
Same old thing on every forum.. Oh we've been here a long time, you haven't. We're right you're wrong. If you want to start talking in-depth about a subject and come out with fairly complex clarifications such as "IMpendance Matching" then just post some documentation instead of attempting to send someone on a wild goose chase..


I don't know jack (pun intended) about this stuff, but in this case, if I were a betting man, I'd place my money behind the two moderators of the Recording forum who seem to be pretty much of the same opinion. One is even an audio engineer, for sakes.

Odds are good UG doesn't select moderators who are masters of gluteal oratory.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Jan 14, 2014,
#35
Quote by kingking22
You're not using a sound card manufactured in 2003 for a modern reference are you? I hope not..

As I stated modern documentation. Not 11 years old documentation. I'm sure sound cards are built are very differently now to what they were eleven years ago. I actually remember reading some where that Impedance Matching has no correlation to modern audio technology.

Line level has not changed since before the Studer 69 mixing console came out in 1958. The sound card has nothing to do with it, line level is line level and impedance is impedance

While buffers can be built into circuits to mitigate mismatch, they are most certainly not being built into your cheap computer sound card, they are pretty expensive tech (for example - The Burson Audio AB-160 costs ~$500). Hell, I'm using a $700 RME sound card with a $2550 SSL Alpha Link AX converter box and neither one of them will match impedance...

Even using a microphone preamp with variable impedance that will have a range that's already acceptable for any mic can produce a pretty large difference in the sound. My first experience with one of these was with an Audient ASP008 I used to own, adjusting between 200, 1200 & 5000 Ω made a very large different on several of my mics. The Focusrite ISA 428 MKI I just got rid of last week was adjustable between 600, 1400, 2400 & 6800 Ω, and it too could change the sound of the mic from muffled to clear and crisp with the press of a button. While it wasn't a gigantic different on other mics, you're also not varying the impedance very much when you consider how huge of a mismatch you're getting plugging guitar into a line input (line inputs take ~10k Ω, whereas an instrument's ideal input impedance is is 30+ times this number).


Honestly, I'd love to read where you heard that impedance matching has no correlation to modern technology, could be an interesting read... but until you yourself provide some proof, isn't it kind of like the pot calling the kettle black?
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com