CreatorOfLulz
Banned
Join date: Jan 2014
20 IQ
#1
Simply put, a Punk Rocker who happens to have a Conservative/Libertarian standpoint and outlook on politics. This is not an oxymoron because if punk is really against government then there's no way they can logically work towards communism because communism is basically where the government controls every aspect of an individual's life! Where's the anarchy in that, you brainwashed idiots?! While it's worth noting that some Conservative Punks are genuine neo-conservative right wingers, the majority of them have a very strong Libertarian tilt to their political ideology. Today punk kids are led to believe that communism is the way to be although they preach anarchy. Thus calling themselves, Anarcho-communists. However this makes no sense because of the fact that these two ideals lie on the opposite sides of the spectrum. Truly educated punks who adopt conservative/libertarian ideals know that they highly oppose the government are the true anarchists that try to push for smaller government.

Famous Conservative Punks include:
Johnny Ramone
Lee Ving (Fear)
Members of the Vandals
Ben Weasel
Michale Graves ('Newfits, Gotham Road) (yes, the newfits suck, i know)
AntiSeen
Bobby Steele (The Misfits, yes, the original misfits. the Undead)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EPIe8m737k
sk8ordie97
Doesn't skate anymore
Join date: Nov 2007
629 IQ
#2
Communism is literally defined as a classless, stateless society where no money and the means of production are shared in common. Organizationally, it is a non-hierarchical federation of communes. The two ideals are NOT opposites, but in fact have the same end goal. The confusion comes from the historical popularity of Marxist-Leninism, which states that to reach communism ( a classless, stateless society), society must first go through a transitional stage, known as the dictatorship of the proletariat (improperly defined as socialism by that ****wit Lenin). Anarchists advocate reaching communism by going straight into it, using the pre-revolutionary period as the transition by building up the social organizations that will run society post-revolution.

That's really the simplest way to put it.


Marx and Bakunin had arguments over the role of anarchism vs. transitional authoritarianism, which lead to the expulsion of Bakunin from the first international.

The term "libertarian" was also coined by an anarcho-communist, and was used to describe ancoms until the 2nd half of the 20th century in the US where the extreme right hijacked the term (and they were damn proud of it too!). Elsewhere, when people hear libertarian they instantly think of anarchists, not minarchist capitalists.


Now, conservative means defending the old way, conserving, so no, you can't have a conservative punk in terms of ideology.

Punk has, and always will be, a political statement. Sure, you can be in a shitty band that plays something that sounds kinda like punk and promotes non-leftist ideologies, but it isn't really punk without that message behind it.

Libertarianism leads to corporate dictatorship, as anyone with a functioning brain and knowledge of both US and world history (you are obviously missing the latter, proven by your complete ignorance on the topic of communism, socialism, and it would appear punk in general), and I can assure you, corporate dictatorship isn't very punk.

Now go listen to some d-beat, read a book on the topic (not written by rothbard, mises, or any other of those moronic twits) and learn something. You're probably old enough to legally use this website, which means you're too damned old to think communism is totalitarianism and be taken seriously.
GoodCharloteSux
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2004
280 IQ
#3
One would argue that now-a-days the most punk thing is to be a clean cut conservative.
Originally posted by J_Dizzle
THAAAANK YOU GoodCharloteSux is god
Jearl
yr bird.
Join date: Sep 2004
40 IQ
#4
Quote by sk8ordie97
Communism is literally defined as a classless, stateless society where no money and the means of production are shared in common. Organizationally, it is a non-hierarchical federation of communes. The two ideals are NOT opposites, but in fact have the same end goal. The confusion comes from the historical popularity of Marxist-Leninism, which states that to reach communism ( a classless, stateless society), society must first go through a transitional stage, known as the dictatorship of the proletariat (improperly defined as socialism by that ****wit Lenin). Anarchists advocate reaching communism by going straight into it, using the pre-revolutionary period as the transition by building up the social organizations that will run society post-revolution.

That's really the simplest way to put it.


Marx and Bakunin had arguments over the role of anarchism vs. transitional authoritarianism, which lead to the expulsion of Bakunin from the first international.

The term "libertarian" was also coined by an anarcho-communist, and was used to describe ancoms until the 2nd half of the 20th century in the US where the extreme right hijacked the term (and they were damn proud of it too!). Elsewhere, when people hear libertarian they instantly think of anarchists, not minarchist capitalists.


Now, conservative means defending the old way, conserving, so no, you can't have a conservative punk in terms of ideology.

Punk has, and always will be, a political statement. Sure, you can be in a shitty band that plays something that sounds kinda like punk and promotes non-leftist ideologies, but it isn't really punk without that message behind it.

Libertarianism leads to corporate dictatorship, as anyone with a functioning brain and knowledge of both US and world history (you are obviously missing the latter, proven by your complete ignorance on the topic of communism, socialism, and it would appear punk in general), and I can assure you, corporate dictatorship isn't very punk.

Now go listen to some d-beat, read a book on the topic (not written by rothbard, mises, or any other of those moronic twits) and learn something. You're probably old enough to legally use this website, which means you're too damned old to think communism is totalitarianism and be taken seriously.


boom.
Chaise Boogie
So So Ska
Join date: Oct 2005
240 IQ
#5
I am quite sure that libertarian and conservative are not on the same side of politics. In some situations I guess corporations are free to grow, but that isn't all that either party is about. Rightfully both are opposite, I'd figure.

But again I don't do politics, so you can probably just ignore what I said.
axeslash
I got no learnin'
Join date: Jan 2006
3,335 IQ
#7
if you're a conservative punk you're literally the worst person that could exist

also people need to stop complaining about communism that argument is so tired we should give it a nap
Journalism is just a gun. It's only got one bullet in it, but if you aim right, that's all you need. Aim it right, and you can blow a kneecap off the world.
axeslash
I got no learnin'
Join date: Jan 2006
3,335 IQ
#12
I'm glad to see you're still alive ss311 but was this really the way to let us know?
Journalism is just a gun. It's only got one bullet in it, but if you aim right, that's all you need. Aim it right, and you can blow a kneecap off the world.
Thecytochromec
Registered User
Join date: May 2014
10 IQ
#13
Quote by GoodCharloteSux
One would argue that now-a-days the most punk thing is to be a clean cut conservative.


Seriously, I'm too punk for tattoos and I shower sometimes twice daily.
MyMusicIsOdd
Banned
Join date: Sep 2014
10 IQ
#14
Honestly, if you support communism... you're an idiot. Um, China, North Korea, etc.? I'm sorry, but I will not pretend to cry over some fat ass like Kim Jung Un whatever his name is. Punk rock is about sticking it to the man. Punk rock is NOT conservative. Punk rock is LIBERTARIAN. Economic AND social freedoms. That means an open-market system, private insurance, little to no taxes, people have power over the police (police brutality), same-sex marriage, marijuana is legal (this is a no brainer. Alcohol is only legal because politicians like to get drunk), etc. 'Anarchy in the UK' anyone?
Thecytochromec
Registered User
Join date: May 2014
10 IQ
#15
Quote by MyMusicIsOdd
Honestly, if you support communism... you're an idiot. Um, China, North Korea, etc.? I'm sorry, but I will not pretend to cry over some fat ass like Kim Jung Un whatever his name is. Punk rock is about sticking it to the man. Punk rock is NOT conservative. Punk rock is LIBERTARIAN. Economic AND social freedoms. That means an open-market system, private insurance, little to no taxes, people have power over the police (police brutality), same-sex marriage, marijuana is legal (this is a no brainer. Alcohol is only legal because politicians like to get drunk), etc. 'Anarchy in the UK' anyone?


They also have a veracious appetite for firearms because they're very logical, responsible and embrace freedom.
neidnarb11890
coming colors everywhere
Join date: Mar 2006
127 IQ
#16
i should not waste my time or contribute to this embarrassment, but oh well --
punk is not "political" in the sense that it is inherently tied to a particular political/economic system. it is political in the sense that it rejects/critiques/interrogates the bourgeois values of parents/teachers/government/church/mr. suit -- this can manifest itself in "leftist" politics, but just as easily descends into the nihilism & self-destruction that punk is so often caricatured as (& often is/was). at any rate, it is obviously not "conservative".
punk is also pretty egalitarian (via its amateurism).

libertarians wanna get rid of gov't but if robber barons are in charge then that is ok. gimme a break.

please stop being poseurs.
Fallenoath
My minds playin' tricks
Join date: Feb 2012
70 IQ
#17
Brian we all know you are a conservative at heart.

I hate you Brian!
Just another Sheep in the design of the Almighty Machine.


-GEAR-
Gibson 60s Les Paul Tribute (Sunburst)
1999 Ibanez RG470 (TitaniumIce-MIJ)
Jackson RR3 (Trans-Red)
Peavey 6505+
Podx3
ss311
Bertrand Russell
Join date: Jul 2005
761 IQ
#18
Quote by axeslash
I'm glad to see you're still alive ss311 but was this really the way to let us know?


Thank you, good sir. I do confess you are probably right. It seems I have missed my chance to announce my survival in a grand manner.

The forum appears to be quiet these days.
Banjocal
hi there
Join date: Sep 2009
516 IQ
#19
Really not sure how someone who follows punk music to that level can have enough cognitive dissonance as to believe in the right-wing. Your head would probably explode.

Quote by MyMusicIsOdd
Honestly, if you support communism... you're an idiot. Um, China, North Korea, etc.? I'm sorry, but I will not pretend to cry over some fat ass like Kim Jung Un whatever his name is.
I hate to break it to you but you have no idea what leftism is because communism needn't be authoritarian.
sausages
neidnarb11890
coming colors everywhere
Join date: Mar 2006
127 IQ
#20
Quote by Banjocal
Really not sure how someone who follows punk music to that level can have enough cognitive dissonance as to believe in the right-wing. Your head would probably explode.

well, not necessarily. as i said, punk has often been construed & expressed as nihilism, and it's easy to see how someone with "no values" can fall for a "philosophy" (libertarianism) that ostensibly offers social freedom & individual liberty via "small government."

not to suggest that i condone right-wing punk.
Banjocal
hi there
Join date: Sep 2009
516 IQ
#21
Quote by neidnarb11890
well, not necessarily. as i said, punk has often been construed & expressed as nihilism, and it's easy to see how someone with "no values" can fall for a "philosophy" (libertarianism) that ostensibly offers social freedom & individual liberty via "small government."

not to suggest that i condone right-wing punk.

ja, though I'd say nihilism wasn't the core principle; more something that developed among more disillusioned people, as the earlier stuff was an affront to capitalism and authoritarianism more than anything else, and even when the nationalists (who were also socialist) came in, the shit they got from people was incredibly aggressive.
"Ostensibly" would be the word yeah, haha. Problem is that those who really were into politics in the movement knew about that, and as such avoided it and moved right to the left because they knew of the pretence. That said, nihilism is a philosophical area rather than a socioeconomic one, and one's morality towards exploitation - even among the most childish of nihilists - would still often be against the state and free market.

Quote by Chaise Boogie
I am quite sure that libertarian and conservative are not on the same side of politics. In some situations I guess corporations are free to grow, but that isn't all that either party is about. Rightfully both are opposite, I'd figure.

But again I don't do politics, so you can probably just ignore what I said.

they are right wing rather than left or centrist. The common misconception is that leftist is synonymous with liberal - it is demonstrably not. Liberals still support capitalism, whereas someone who is considered or considers themselves leftist usually fall pretty far to the left.
sausages
Last edited by Banjocal at Oct 16, 2014,
axeslash
I got no learnin'
Join date: Jan 2006
3,335 IQ
#22
Quote by ss311
Thank you, good sir. I do confess you are probably right. It seems I have missed my chance to announce my survival in a grand manner.

The forum appears to be quiet these days.
All the kids grew up and all the adults finally grew up too.
Journalism is just a gun. It's only got one bullet in it, but if you aim right, that's all you need. Aim it right, and you can blow a kneecap off the world.
Last edited by axeslash at Oct 18, 2014,
█▐▌█▐▌
Join date: Apr 2011
100 IQ
#23
yeah that happens, but where are the new kids?
they're being supervised
on facebook
or on tumblr or reddit or 4chan or whatever
giant content-indifferent platform is current now.

bury the internet.
i can't even google
anything anymore.
nothing but factory content farms.
youtube finally made me display "my name."

the kid in third grade
whose family didn't have a tv
wow that was radical, right?
what did they do?
now only old people watch tv.

they watch their programs
more consciously now
on netflix and whatever,
but it's still stupid tv to me - no thank you,
i set my monitor to black and white.

bury the internet.
the next counterculture
won't use it,
mark my words,
or my name isn't fux gooxle.
Last edited by █▐▌█▐▌ at Oct 18, 2014,
█▐▌█▐▌
Join date: Apr 2011
100 IQ
#25
Production:

I had not written a legitimate song for a year and a half, until, as it happens, last week. It lacks a line and maybe a verse or two; maybe I will finish it someday. I had another, better creative outlet, but it's all but gone now. I still feel guilty when I am not studying language or dialectic, but, seeing how that practice has passed from obsessional to perverse, I am starting to feel more guilty when I am doing it. Another obstacle is the impossibility of creativity in the immediate presence of the internet's sublime plenitude of creativity. But I think I just now formulated the solution. So I may or may not put more time into "creativity."

Reproduction:

K. and I have not really entertained the pretense of being a band for a few months. We do not really recognize ourselves in "the public" of parties, students/dropouts who like to drink and pretend to enjoy. I am OK with the otherness (I sometimes even find it stimulating) but K. is not. We have never really found playing music to be very fun or purposive, anyway. I was also tied up for some time due to school, then illness. I still am to some degree, with the latter. We might do something, regardless, as an excuse to hang out. I do not like our repertoire very much. I would rather play covers, like "La Bamba" and those two German Beatles songs. I also do not like playing guitar and drums at the same time. K. and I talked about getting another friend to play simplified drums, but he probably will not want to. Besides, he and K. have a history of squabbling.

thanks for asking, by the way.
Last edited by █▐▌█▐▌ at Oct 22, 2014,
ss311
Bertrand Russell
Join date: Jul 2005
761 IQ
#27
Quote by axeslash
All the kids grew up and all the adults finally grew up too.


It certainly seems so.
BUZZARD__
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2014
10 IQ
#28
Real punks make fun of people who have these conversations.

Then they go to work at their industrial job that's killing the planet and feeding the rich all while saying **** the world. They're just happy to have a six pack, a pick up, and a home.

Real punks just want to live life...not complicate it.

If you don't believe me, you don't know any
Last edited by BUZZARD__ at Jan 6, 2015,
deadsmileyface
jesse's dead
Join date: Dec 2011
110 IQ
#29
Quote by BUZZARD__
Real punks make fun of people who have these conversations.

Then they go to work at their industrial job that's killing the planet and feeding the rich all while saying **** the world. They're just happy to have a six pack, a pick up, and a home.

Real punks just want to live life...not complicate it.

If you don't believe me, you don't know any

poser detected
bradulator
normcore
Join date: Jul 2007
80 IQ
#31
This thread would be better if everybody was posting conservative punk band names.

War On the War On Poverty