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#1

I think that throughout the course of history, there have always been very few bands that have been able to live up to my standards, at least of black metal… Then there are thousands and thousands of misrepresentations and misconceptions of it. But true and genuine black metal is always something that will always be a minority in the music scene. A small minority even. Then there's all these people that kind of want to… It's just like punk, you know? You have a few real punk bands, and you have a thousand bands that try to do the same thing, but fail because they don't have the right spirit and they don't really believe in it. But at the same time, it fascinates a lot of people, because it is an extreme way of expression, and it is controversial, and it's therefore also popular and people are fascinated by it. That's why it's also so often, like with other forms of extreme art, whatever it may be, that's why it's also so often misused, and just even commercialised, just for the sake of that, horror sells. And extreme metal sells, controversy sells, and that's why there's so many charlatans in this kind of music.

"WATAIN's DANIELSSON: True And Genuine Black Metal Will Always Be A Minority In The Music Scene," Blabbermouth, January 15, 2014


Apparently this guy has some kind of melodic heavy metal band and they're relatively well known, but I've never heard them. I think he makes a good point though. Most black metal is ersatz at best or a forgery at worst. It's easy enough to imitate or parody, and bands often straddle that line.
#2
'Yeah. The second that black metal truly becomes mainstream, I think we're really in the last days'

....posted on blabbermouth! I like Watain and all, but this is an absolutely pointless snippet. Is he having difficulty coming to terms with the fact that Watain are successful and popular? Why not embrace it?
Quote by Ultraussie
I want to try that while playing the opening riff to "Tempting Time".

0-0-0-13-0-0-0-0-13 or something like that alalalala but It;s so heavy and off time and awesome and you could not f**k anyone to it.


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#3
He's his own publicist so its whatever.
o()o

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#5
i prefer Ihsahn's take on what black metal means... can't help but feel that this view is a bit juvenile in comparison.
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Jesus Christ since when is the Pit a ****ing courtroom...

Like melodic, black, death, symphonic, and/or avant-garde metal? Want to collaborate? Message me!
#6
This whole thing is just screaming pretence. Music is music, Black Metal won't become mainstream ever. The interview reads like he's having a bit of a bitch than actually having a serious discussion.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



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Last edited by ChemicalFire at Jan 16, 2014,
#7
Quote by vIsIbleNoIsE
i prefer Ihsahn's take on what black metal means... can't help but feel that this view is a bit juvenile in comparison.


Isn't his view just that black metal is anything and that he doesn't give a shit?
#8
Quote by Morphogenesis26
Isn't his view just that black metal is anything and that he doesn't give a shit?


pretty much...so if you're feeling particularly irritable you could very well argue that that definition is very vague and could apply to totally non-blackmetal things. but i still like it more. i just honestly can't identify with what this Watain guy is saying.
Quote by archerygenious
Jesus Christ since when is the Pit a ****ing courtroom...

Like melodic, black, death, symphonic, and/or avant-garde metal? Want to collaborate? Message me!
#9
Quote by vIsIbleNoIsE
pretty much...so if you're feeling particularly irritable you could very well argue that that definition is very vague and could apply to totally non-blackmetal things. but i still like it more. i just honestly can't identify with what this Watain guy is saying.


Looking into it, he considers the song "The Grave" off his album Emerita as the true essence of black metal and it sounds like Candlemass worship with a saxophone. If it his definition includes other types of metal like that then I don't think he has a good definition at all.

Danielsson didn't really say much in this interview, to be honest. It's all really vague.
#11
Erik Danielsson might be most pretentious person in all of metal. He may have a point, but all of the bullshit posturing he does to build up Watain into the saviors of black metal just screams "we're part of the problem."
#14
It's all very well and good saying "This is what something isn't" but... what is black metal then? If there's so much bullshit then what's real?

I think it's generally balls anyway; genres are sounds, it's not some kind of "way of life" or "attitude" thing.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

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“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#17
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
It's all very well and good saying "This is what something isn't" but... what is black metal then? If there's so much bullshit then what's real?

I think it's generally balls anyway; genres are sounds, it's not some kind of "way of life" or "attitude" thing.

So why do genres sound the way they do if not because of the attitudes of the musicians involved?
#18
Black Metal just sounds like a crusty punk/thrash Motorhead riffs.. like, it's not even that far off from Kill 'Em All or Killing Is My Business. "Lay down your souls to the Gods Rock and Roll" Sounds like a lyric from AC/DC.

I swear, the only thing the Black Metal genre seems to add to music is the "elitist" attitude.
True Sons of Northern Darkness
True Daughters of Southern Frost
True Nords of Skyrim are the Stormcloaks


it's all just a bunch of bullshit religious mentality from people who claim to be anti-religious.
#19
Quote by guitgrinder
Black Metal just sounds like a crusty punk/thrash Motorhead riffs.. like, it's not even that far off from Kill 'Em All or Killing Is My Business. "Lay down your souls to the Gods Rock and Roll" Sounds like a lyric from AC/DC.

I swear, the only thing the Black Metal genre seems to add to music is the "elitist" attitude.
True Sons of Northern Darkness
True Daughters of Southern Frost
True Nords of Skyrim are the Stormcloaks


it's all just a bunch of bullshit religious mentality from people who claim to be anti-religious.
You've been here long enough, you ought to know better than that.

Are Venom and Immortal the only black metal you've ever heard?
I’m not the man I used to be, I... I can’t go back to Arkham.

I... I should return to Arkham.


Among the churchyard’s mouldering stones I recognise a name – my own.
I have come home to Arkham.

#21
Quote by Hoodoo Man
So why do genres sound the way they do if not because of the attitudes of the musicians involved?


Ok, I'll put it this way: if someone puts out an album that sounds extremely similar to, for example, In The Nightside Eclipse... but they don't have anything to do with the kind of bullshit that this dude from Watain is talking about how... is that not black metal somehow? Hell, if they wrote it as some kind of academic exercise to see if they could and it works, then what?

If it sounds like Black metal then what else is there to talk about?
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#22
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr

I think it's generally balls anyway; genres are sounds, it's not some kind of "way of life" or "attitude" thing.


I think the whole of metal is some kind of "way of life" and an "attitude thing" and I'm not talking about the way you dress. I smell a false
#23
I just don't get it. This shit generates so much discussion while Possession's demo drifts into obscurity. Go look at Strangles' thread. Now.
#24
Quote by BL1NDSIDE-J
I think the whole of metal is some kind of "way of life" and an "attitude thing" and I'm not talking about the way you dress. I smell a false


...****ing hell.
#25
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr


If it sounds like Black metal then what else is there to talk about?


Not all that glitters is gold
#26
Quote by technicolour
He's being serious..?



No I wasn't being serious... very, very exaggerated sarcasm that didn't quite come out right


Still, I'm pretty indifferent to Black Metal in general. Someone mentioned earlier that music has a sort of emotional connection to the listener and I never find myself in that mood really. I got nothing further to contribute to this discussion, so I'll just show myself the door...
#27
Quote by Morphogenesis26
...****ing hell.


+1

Quote by technicolour
Not all that glitters is gold


And not all those who wander are lost but if the sound doesn't make something black metal then what does?
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#28
Quote by BL1NDSIDE-J
I think the whole of metal is some kind of "way of life" and an "attitude thing" and I'm not talking about the way you dress. I smell a false

There is definitely a culture attached to metal, but it's never had a "way of life" the same way punk subgenres have unless you're one of the ANUS crazies.
#29
hey if you think it's good music there should be no reason to stop listening. keep doing what youre doing people theres nothing to see here but shitty writing
Cette nuit j'ai rêvé que je mâchais ses yeux
Après avoir crevé par accès de furie
Ta replète panse d'helminthes blancs nourrie,
Trop prompte à déféquer le fruit d'un vit sanieux.
#30
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Ok, I'll put it this way: if someone puts out an album that sounds extremely similar to, for example, In The Nightside Eclipse... but they don't have anything to do with the kind of bullshit that this dude from Watain is talking about how... is that not black metal somehow? Hell, if they wrote it as some kind of academic exercise to see if they could and it works, then what?

If it sounds like Black metal then what else is there to talk about?
Spot on. The sound is what gives a song its general classification, not the ideologies of a band.
For example - Opeth was wholly known as a metal band at the time that they released Damnation (though some idiots still argue that it is a progressive metal album). However, Damnation was not a metal album, it was a prog rock album. Same argument works vice versa.
If Death Cab for Cutie decided to release an atmospheric black metal album in the vein of Limbonic Art, and it sounded like black metal, it would still be a black metal album.
If some dude from Watain wants to argue about whether a band's ideologies line up with the ideologies prevalent in black metal, so be it. But to argue that a band or album is not true black metal, when the style of music that they play clearly IS black metal, is to sound like a stupid douchebag from ANUS.
#31
Quote by NABEF9
Spot on. The sound is what gives a song its general classification, not the ideologies of a band.
For example - Opeth was wholly known as a metal band at the time that they released Damnation (though some idiots still argue that it is a progressive metal album). However, Damnation was not a metal album, it was a prog rock album. Same argument works vice versa.
If Death Cab for Cutie decided to release an atmospheric black metal album in the vein of Limbonic Art, and it sounded like black metal, it would still be a black metal album.
If some dude from Watain wants to argue about whether a band's ideologies line up with the ideologies prevalent in black metal, so be it. But to argue that a band or album is not true black metal, when the style of music that they play clearly IS black metal, is to sound like a stupid douchebag from ANUS.


My qualm is that it doesn't seem like there are bands who play black metal that don't have some ties to the common ideologies of the style. They're either post-rock or screamo hybrids.
#32
Quote by Morphogenesis26
My qualm is that it doesn't seem like there are bands who play black metal that don't have some ties to the common ideologies of the style. They're either post-rock or screamo hybrids.
I think that we agree, then: bands that play black metal are black metal bands. Bands that play post-rock or screamo, even if they call themselves black metal, are not black metal bands. A black metal album by a band that doesn't usually write black metal is still a black metal album.
#33
In my experience, if the so called douchebags proclaim a "black metal" album that was done by Thurston Moore as sonic defecation, they can usually provide reasons for said conclusion .
HESSIAN HAREM
FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF THE HESSIAN CULTURE. STAY TRUE.
#34
Sworn to the Dark was pretty cool but dude clearly has his head lodged terminally up his own arse.

Imitation and misappropriation happen in every genre of music, acting like it's something exclusive to Black Metal is dumb. If you don't like generic, derivative shit; then don't listen to generic, derivative shit. There's a **** ton of music in the world and if you don't like what you're listening to, then turn it off an listen to something else. All there is to it.
Vinland, Vinland Über Alles

"Why do they still call me a warlord? And mad? All I want to do is create the perfect genetic soldier!"
#35
Isn't Venom technically "what black metal really is"?
I mean didn't they kinda create it, and they were also kinda joking...

But then Bathory and Celtic Frost and such came along and they seemed to take it more seriously and make it more extreme.
Originally Posted by Cheeselord
Sanitarium iz by SLAYER DUMBASS!!!!!

SLAYER FAN4LIFE!
#37
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
And not all those who wander are lost but if the sound doesn't make something black metal then what does?


Taking the analogy further, I think something considered 'false' would seem fairer and feel fouler. The type of Black metal I think many people would consider 'true' may look (or sound) foul but feel fair

A few riffs off a song can be stylistically indistinguishable from any other black metal piece (in this case) but the overall atmosphere and composition might have a completely different feel.
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Proof God exists and evolution is a lie:
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the prove is u because u did n create urself and ur parents dindt and their parents didnt and so on and we are not monkeys peace

#38
Quote by Scourge441
Erik Danielsson might be most pretentious person in all of metal. He may have a point, but all of the bullshit posturing he does to build up Watain into the saviors of black metal just screams "we're part of the problem."


This. The bloke is a dead set tool bag. Wu-tain is dead to me. So is black metal. Apart from the odd band or album here and there 99% of the black metal in recent times is just complete, uninspiring rubbish.
#39
everyone knows the dudes from watain are coke fiending **** suckers anyway... they'll reverse their position on this subject if you offer them a bag of crack
Cette nuit j'ai rêvé que je mâchais ses yeux
Après avoir crevé par accès de furie
Ta replète panse d'helminthes blancs nourrie,
Trop prompte à déféquer le fruit d'un vit sanieux.
#40
Quote by morbid_death
This. The bloke is a dead set tool bag. Wu-tain is dead to me. So is black metal. Apart from the odd band or album here and there 99% of the black metal in recent times is just complete, uninspiring rubbish.


That applies to every musical endeavor since the prevalence of the DAW. So enjoy the odd release here and there. Speaking of good releases...

Let the In
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I'll logic you right in the thyroid.

Art & Lutherie
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