#1
I need a new amp, i have decided against a stack because i dont have the money to afford a high quality tube, so a 2x12 combo is what i feel would work best. I currently have a 75w peavey envoy but when trying to be heard over my drummer it gets terribly muddy and sounds horrid, i need an amp with more headroom. It needs to be able to stand in a full band setting. It needs an effects loop, and needs to be able to withstand pedals (because i assume a combo wont have the high gain i want) I would like good cleans and has to be able to take very high gain distortion well. Would like to pay no more than 500 if possible. I play a esp ltd mahogeny V with 2 dimarzio d activator pups.
Last edited by TYSHADOWS at Jan 21, 2014,
#2
Being a combo or a head will make no difference in the gain you get. For that budget, try to snag a used 5150 combo, 6505 combo, XXX, Ultra, or JSX. Jet city stuff could probably be boosted to fit your needs. Also, keep and eye out for a B-52 AT-100, underrated and often forgotten. Mesa DC, and F series amps can also be found in that budget occasionally.
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#3
whats the difference between the XXX and the JSX? they seem quite similar
#4
JSX has resonance and presence controls, along with a noise gate. I'd pick that over the XXX IMO.
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#5
I'd either get a used 6505+ combo or vypyr tube combo or jet city 50w combo.
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#6
500 what? Dollars, Euros, Pounds?
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#8
Peavey JSX 212 is 120 watts and can be had used for $500. It has tons and tons of gain, I don't think you need to get an amp to use a distortion pedal, you can find something that will work for you at $500.

If you're really set on a clean amp with a distortion pedal, a Valveking 212 would save you enough money for the best dirt pedals around. There are several versions of the Fender Twin and the lower end ones can be found within budget. They're supposed to be great for pedals and have tons of headroom.
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#9
I picked up my 5150 combo for $400 used. Its the same as the 6505 (no plus) on Peavey's site. The cleans are much nicer on the combos than the heads because of the bias. Yeah it's 60 Watts but its really freaking loud and the wattage is mostly for headroom before you get power valve breakup. If you're playing with distortion then it shouldn't really matter. The 5150 kinda sets the bar for high gain - its just wicked good. Just try one out if you can find it locally. I think the cleans sound pretty decent for metal stuff with the neck pickup volume turned down a bit. A new set of JJ's from Eurotubes and you're right at your budget.
Guitars:
Ibanez RG1570 Prestige
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#10
Quote by TYSHADOWS
Dollars, and I feel I would need more wattage than 60.


Why? I suspect you think that watts=volume in direct proportion, which is grossly incorrect...

To give you an example 100 watts is only twice as loud as 10 watts, everything else being equal. The difference between 60 watts and 100 watts is immaterial for all practical purposes.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#12
Quote by Arby911
Why? I suspect you think that watts=volume in direct proportion, which is grossly incorrect...

To give you an example 100 watts is only twice as loud as 10 watts, everything else being equal. The difference between 60 watts and 100 watts is immaterial for all practical purposes.


I realize this, but what I need is headroom, and from personal experience (I have a 75w) when loud (full band metal loud) it breaks up way too much when running pedals through it, which I have to to achieve the sound I want with my current one. Maybe it's just my crappy amp but I do realize 75 can get plenty loud, I just need it to sound good loud
#13
Quote by TYSHADOWS
I realize this, but what I need is headroom, and from personal experience (I have a 75w) when loud (full band metal loud) it breaks up way too much when running pedals through it, which I have to to achieve the sound I want with my current one. Maybe it's just my crappy amp but I do realize 75 can get plenty loud, I just need it to sound good loud

60 watts should have plenty of headroom, even in a full band setting, unless you're playing stadiums. A 60 watt tube amp will have much more headroom than your 75 watt solid state, especially if you roll back the guitar volume knob just a tad.
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#14
Used late '80's Carvin XV112E or XV212.

100W EL34s, two channels, active controls, lots of gain available on the second channel, 5-band EQ, either British-voice 100W speakers or EV-L's "E" or "B" model. Extremely loud, lots of headroom, spring tank reverb, etc., etc.

Usually around $350 used. Similar to the same vintage Mesa.
#15
Quote by metalmingee
I picked up my 5150 combo for $400 used. Its the same as the 6505 (no plus) on Peavey's site. The cleans are much nicer on the combos than the heads because of the bias. Yeah it's 60 Watts but its really freaking loud and the wattage is mostly for headroom before you get power valve breakup. If you're playing with distortion then it shouldn't really matter. The 5150 kinda sets the bar for high gain - its just wicked good. Just try one out if you can find it locally. I think the cleans sound pretty decent for metal stuff with the neck pickup volume turned down a bit. A new set of JJ's from Eurotubes and you're right at your budget.


So the 5150 is a good investment? Can handle slayer avenged sevenfold five finger Judas Priest etc while rolling back to matchbox 20 black stone cherry hinder switchfoot sound? And is there an effects loop?
#16
Where are you located TS? I can prolly find some good suggestions on your Craigslist.

And the 5150 cleans are nothing special, but usable.
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson Les Paul Traditional
Cort Explorer
Squire Standard Strat rebuilt with Fender USA parts
Squire Tele
Krank 1980
Orange Tiny Terror
Traynor YCV 50 Blue
Peavey Vypyr 75

Will fly for food. Call me Dylan
#17
Quote by classicrocker01
Where are you located TS? I can prolly find some good suggestions on your Craigslist.

And the 5150 cleans are nothing special, but usable.


Probably better than my ss, would this be versatile enough for what I'm looking for? Good first tube? And Madison wi area
#18
http://madison.craigslist.org/msg/4264746537.html
The F-50 is a stretch, but would be awesome for you http://madison.craigslist.org/msg/4266797124.html


The 5150/6505 (essentially the same amp) is THE go to amp for metal, and I didn't think the cleans were as bad as others said. The Mesa would be great, but a little out of your price range
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson Les Paul Traditional
Cort Explorer
Squire Standard Strat rebuilt with Fender USA parts
Squire Tele
Krank 1980
Orange Tiny Terror
Traynor YCV 50 Blue
Peavey Vypyr 75

Will fly for food. Call me Dylan
#19
Quote by classicrocker01
http://madison.craigslist.org/msg/4264746537.html
The F-50 is a stretch, but would be awesome for you http://madison.craigslist.org/msg/4266797124.html


The 5150/6505 (essentially the same amp) is THE go to amp for metal, and I didn't think the cleans were as bad as others said. The Mesa would be great, but a little out of your price range


Is the 6505 just the newer model? No real differences? And tanks btw ill def check those out
#20
Your questions were asked and answered yesterday at length. Are you actually planning on purchasing something, or is this just a wishful circle-jerk?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#21
Quote by Arby911
Your questions were asked and answered yesterday at length. Are you actually planning on purchasing something, or is this just a wishful circle-jerk?

I'm looking at all options and making an educated purchase. Anyone think this is a bad idea? No. Yes I am going to buy something. I'm just trying to look at all the options and make a decision I won't regret. Besides why does it matter if I have more questions? No one else here seems bothered. Thank you everyone for your help and sorry if by making a new thread upset anyone. You were all very helpful.
#22
Quote by TYSHADOWS
whats the difference between the XXX and the JSX? they seem quite similar


The JSX has a bit different tonestack from the XXX - at Joe Satriani's request, the clean and crunch channels on the JSX are lifted from the Peavey Classic 50 (I believe, Classic-ish in any case). As a result, the cleans and crunch on the JSX are much deeper and lusher than on the XXX. The XXX has a reputation of being brittle and sterile - the JSX is basically the answer to that.
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#23
Quote by TYSHADOWS
I'm looking at all options and making an educated purchase. Anyone think this is a bad idea? No. Yes I am going to buy something. I'm just trying to look at all the options and make a decision I won't regret. Besides why does it matter if I have more questions? No one else here seems bothered. Thank you everyone for your help and sorry if by making a new thread upset anyone. You were all very helpful.


Just checking, because far more often than not when this occurs that's NOT the case.

“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#24
Quote by TYSHADOWS
Is the 6505 just the newer model? No real differences? And tanks btw ill def check those out

Basically when EVH parted ways with Peavey he kept the 5150 name, and Peavey rebranded the amp as the 6505
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson Les Paul Traditional
Cort Explorer
Squire Standard Strat rebuilt with Fender USA parts
Squire Tele
Krank 1980
Orange Tiny Terror
Traynor YCV 50 Blue
Peavey Vypyr 75

Will fly for food. Call me Dylan
#25
Quote by classicrocker01
Basically when EVH parted ways with Peavey he kept the 5150 name, and Peavey rebranded the amp as the 6505


And to add, it was strictly a rebranding.

The 5150 is the same exact amp as the 6505.

The 5150 II is the same exact amp as the 6505+. Don't let anyone let you think otherwise.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
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(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#26
Quote by TYSHADOWS
So the 5150 is a good investment? Can handle slayer avenged sevenfold five finger Judas Priest etc while rolling back to matchbox 20 black stone cherry hinder switchfoot sound? And is there an effects loop?

J
In short, yes very easily. For Slayer on the lead channel with the gain on 5 I would need to turn the gain DOWN to get the Seasons, Reign in blood sound. Don't listen to much of their last few albums but the gain is truly brutal. A ton of death metal bands use the 5150.

Judas Priest Painkiller is also overdone with the gain on 5.

Yes, it has an effects loop - very basic one without any send return line volume.

The combo model has pretty decent reverb built in and it's footswitchable. The head doesn't have reverb but you can turn the effects loop on and off. So it's a trade.

The clean/rhythm channel can do the lighter rock stuff well and that channel is supposed to receive pedals well though I can't vouch for that. The combo has a very nice clean channel compared to the head version because of the bias on the tubes.

I was in a similar situation when I bought mine - everyone recommends the 5150 for metal an after having one I agree. It was really exactly what I was looking for - basic amp for metal that really kicks ass where you don't have to scoop the mids out to get that crunchy distortion to rip your face off.

For $500 (or less if the tubes are still good) its awesome. Try it out and if you buy it and find out you really don't like it just flip it back on Craigslist. If you want early Metallica and Slayer sound on the light side you'll probably keep it.

Remember though that the 5150/6505 and the 5150 II / 6505+ are NOT the same and you cannot get 5150 / 6505 complete brutalness from the +.
Guitars:
Ibanez RG1570 Prestige
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#27
Quote by Arby911
Just checking, because far more often than not when this occurs that's NOT the case.


Totally agree man no hard feelings, i just am on a budget and cant afford to blow my money on something i wont like! Just trying to get all the info before spending everything i got
#28
Quote by metalmingee
J
In short, yes very easily. For Slayer on the lead channel with the gain on 5 I would need to turn the gain DOWN to get the Seasons, Reign in blood sound. Don't listen to much of their last few albums but the gain is truly brutal. A ton of death metal bands use the 5150.

Judas Priest Painkiller is also overdone with the gain on 5.

Yes, it has an effects loop - very basic one without any send return line volume.

The combo model has pretty decent reverb built in and it's footswitchable. The head doesn't have reverb but you can turn the effects loop on and off. So it's a trade.

The clean/rhythm channel can do the lighter rock stuff well and that channel is supposed to receive pedals well though I can't vouch for that. The combo has a very nice clean channel compared to the head version because of the bias on the tubes.

I was in a similar situation when I bought mine - everyone recommends the 5150 for metal an after having one I agree. It was really exactly what I was looking for - basic amp for metal that really kicks ass where you don't have to scoop the mids out to get that crunchy distortion to rip your face off.

For $500 (or less if the tubes are still good) its awesome. Try it out and if you buy it and find out you really don't like it just flip it back on Craigslist. If you want early Metallica and Slayer sound on the light side you'll probably keep it.

Remember though that the 5150/6505 and the 5150 II / 6505+ are NOT the same and you cannot get 5150 / 6505 complete brutalness from the +.


Sounds utterly perfect, i think thats what ill go for. sounds like just what im looking for.
Last edited by TYSHADOWS at Jan 21, 2014,
#29
Quote by Offworld92
And to add, it was strictly a rebranding.

The 5150 is the same exact amp as the 6505.

The 5150 II is the same exact amp as the 6505+. Don't let anyone let you think otherwise.


So dont go II or +, and if i cant find a 5150 go for 6505? or would it be better to look the other way around because 6505 will be newer?
#30
Either one will serve you just fine. I can't imagine the 5150II/6505+ not being brutal enough for anyone. You have to sacrifice 17 kittens to turn the damn thing on.
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson Les Paul Traditional
Cort Explorer
Squire Standard Strat rebuilt with Fender USA parts
Squire Tele
Krank 1980
Orange Tiny Terror
Traynor YCV 50 Blue
Peavey Vypyr 75

Will fly for food. Call me Dylan
#31
You have to sacrifice 17 kittens to turn the damn thing on.

lol Seems legit. I never liked cats anyways. Ill check em all out and see which i like best/is available.
Last edited by TYSHADOWS at Jan 21, 2014,
#32
Yup ive found it, Used 6505 212, $500 and looks great! with footswitch too. done.
#34
you may also want to look at a Peavey Ultra 2x12. will do the tones you mentioned and is cheaper on the used market that the other amps mentioned. mine is a 60 watt and is way to loud for playing around the house at even 3 or 4 on the master volume.
#35
My Randall RM100 is the best 2x12 combo I've ever used. It only has G12T75's which in the past I've always thought sounded a bit thin unless you have 4 or more of them but the huge closed back cab of the Randall 2x12 has changed my mind. It sounds friggin huge.
The only down side of the RM100 is how big heavy it is but there are ways to deal with that and the size of it is part of why it sounds so good.
I've seen fully loaded (ie all three preamp modules installed) used RM100's go for $600 in the US. You may want to add it to the list of amps you are considering.
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Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


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Last edited by Cathbard at Jan 21, 2014,
#36
Quote by metalmingee
J

Remember though that the 5150/6505 and the 5150 II / 6505+ are NOT the same and you cannot get 5150 / 6505 complete brutalness from the +.


Agreed that they are not the same. Disagree that you can't get equal brutality out of a 5150 II/6505+ --- they just accomplish it in a different way.

The II/+ models have a bit more emphasis on the upper mids (which can be a benefit for cutting through the mix), while the original 5150/6505 has a bit more emphasis on the lower mids. That comes across as a thicker, meatier tone, at the expense of some cut.

I don't have a lot of time on the original version but I did play one last weekend at the local music store. It was a 6505 212 combo and it sounded great. However, after factoring in tube swaps, eq pedals, boosts, speaker upgrades, etc. -- my 6505+ 112 head through my 412 cab would blow it away.

My point is, get a boost, an EQ pedal, and upgrade the tubes/speakers and pretty much ANY variation of the 5150 will SLAY.
#37
Quote by KailM
Agreed that they are not the same. Disagree that you can't get equal brutality out of a 5150 II/6505+ --- they just accomplish it in a different way.

The II/+ models have a bit more emphasis on the upper mids (which can be a benefit for cutting through the mix), while the original 5150/6505 has a bit more emphasis on the lower mids. That comes across as a thicker, meatier tone, at the expense of some cut.

I don't have a lot of time on the original version but I did play one last weekend at the local music store. It was a 6505 212 combo and it sounded great. However, after factoring in tube swaps, eq pedals, boosts, speaker upgrades, etc. -- my 6505+ 112 head through my 412 cab would blow it away.

My point is, get a boost, an EQ pedal, and upgrade the tubes/speakers and pretty much ANY variation of the 5150 will SLAY.

I watched a side by side of the 6505/6505+ and I think your right. I almost think I like 6505+ better just because that's the sound I'm goin for mid/high emphasis but still with big low emphasis etc the tone/sound I'm looking to achieve is pretty much perfectly displayed in this song http://youtu.be/a-dgzwXrDro
Great band btw