Page 1 of 2
#1
The two modes I enjoy playing in the most are B Minor/D Major and E Minor/G Major.

I like the tonal properties of these modes, they're very warm and just sound very natural (to me, anyway). Plus I theorized that I like these modes because they are what I would call very "forgiving", in the sense that if you flub and hit an open string it doesn't ruin what you're playing because all of the open string notes are in the scale (standard tuning anyways).

Also, I could be wrong but, I think I enjoy these two modes about the same because they're essentially the same scale. I think the only difference is one note is a half step higher or lower, respectively.

My least favorite mode, it's hard to say because I don't really play in them a lot, would probably be C Minor/D# Major. One of my buddies loves this mode but to me it just seems very shrill, I just can never get what I want out of it for some reason.

Also I don't really care for B Major all that much. I just don't get any sort of feeling out of that mode at all for some reason.

As for the rest I wouldn't say I really don't like them, it's more like I just don't find them to be very expressive I guess. Most of the # Minors, besides F#, I just don't seem to really connect with all that much.

Anyway I'm done rambling, what are your thoughts? What modes do you like to play in?
#2
Well you haven't listed any modes mate - they're all keys. That's cool though, 99.9999% of music are in keys.

I otherwise have no preference. They all sound the same to me.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#3
Huh, I just assumed that key and mode were interchangeable. I just figured most people don't refer to them Ionian, Aeolian, etc.
#4
In terms of a song being "in a mode" and "in a key", they're pretty different. It's cool though, most contemporary songs are in keys. Irrespective of that major and minor are types of keys and scales, not modes.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#5
Can you differentiate the tonal characteristics of keys or is this purely technical? Or is this purely bs?
#6
Also, G major and E minor are not the same key. Nor are B minor and D major. Yes, they share the same notes, but those notes function differently.
#7
Quote by macashmack
Can you differentiate the tonal characteristics of keys or is this purely technical? Or is this purely bs?


I don't really understand what you're asking.
#8
Quote by Admiral_Crunch
I don't really understand what you're asking.

You're saying you like b minor the most, and don't like C minor. There's no difference between them though, unless one has perfect pitch. Do you have perfect pitch?
#9
I don't understand what you mean when you say they're the same thing. They are two entirely different keys.
#10
Yea but they sound is the same. A perfect fifth is a perfect fifth. It doesn't matter if you play it from G-D or from Db-Ab. It's the same interval. It always sounds the same. A I-IV-V progression sounds the same whether you're in G major or A major.
#11
What they're saying is that there's only a semi tone difterence between the two keys, they don't sound very different from eachother.

Maybe we should start at the start. What do you think a key is?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#12
Quote by macashmack
Yea but they sound is the same. A perfect fifth is a perfect fifth. It doesn't matter if you play it from G-D or from Db-Ab. It's the same interval. It always sounds the same. A I-IV-V progression sounds the same whether you're in G major or A major.


I understand what you mean when it sounds the same. But to me are two distinctly different sounds.
#13
Quote by AlanHB
What they're saying is that there's only a semi tone difterence between the two keys, they don't sound very different from eachother.

Maybe we should start at the start. What do you think a key is?


I always just assumed the key of a song was related to whatever root note it was being played from.
#14
Quote by Admiral_Crunch
I always just assumed the key of a song was related to whatever root note it was being played from.


Well sure that's part of it. What do you think they are otherwise?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#16
Cmon mate I'm trying to figure out what you think they are so I know what you are saying. I know you think they're the same as modes. Are they patterns on the fretboard that you use over backing tracks on youtube?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#17
Well like I said I just kind of think of keys and modes as interchangeable things, I don't really view them as different things.

For instance if a song was rooted in G Major G would be the key it was in but there are several modes that correspond to G Major. A Dorian, B Phrygian, C Lydian, etc.
#18
Sure well you'll find that using those specific modes as scales in that key will simply result in the G major scale and nothing modal. Try rotating through them on a backing track and see if they sound different to eachother.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#20
^^^ The same reason that C major sounds different to A minor.

You're pretty early in your theory studies - have you checked out Josh Urban's "The Crusade" articles on UG?
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#21
No, I haven't.

Are you saying that the C major chord sounds different than the A minor chord? Because I know that, but the scales are the same.
#22
Presumably keys sound different or distinct on a guitar because of open strings ringing sympathetically on certain notes of certain keys.

Keys don't have particular inherent properties. Instruments do.
#23
I don't have a favourite key. I like them all.

===

Presumably keys sound different or distinct on a guitar because of open strings ringing sympathetically on certain notes of certain keys.

Keys don't have particular inherent properties. Instruments do. I don't hear any unique properties inherent in different keys. I do hear a difference in instruments. ftfy^

Key's do have particular inherent properties.

Many composers throughout history have commented on the unique character of different keys. Granted, most of them will have had perfect pitch and could hear these distinctions clearly.

To say that they do not exist is like a person with total colour blindness saying that colour does not exist simply because he personally can't personally see it. You can say that you do not hear any difference in the property of different keys but you can not state their non existence as an objective fact because it isn't true. They do exist - just not for you (nor many others).

====

Quote by Admiral_Crunch
No, I haven't.

Are you saying that the C major chord sounds different than the A minor chord? Because I know that, but the scales are the same.

No, the scales are quite different.

the tonal centre of C major is C.
the tonal centre of A minor is A

C major has a major second a major third a perfect fourth a perfect fifth major sixth and major seventh
A minor has a major second a minor third a perfect fourth perfect fifth minor sixth and minor seventh

The tonal centres are different, the structure of the scales are different. If you look at the fact that they share the same notes simply as a coincidence (which it kind of is), then you will see that they are very different indeed.
Si
#25
Quote by 20Tigers

Key's do have particular inherent properties.

Many composers throughout history have commented on the unique character of different keys. Granted, most of them will have had perfect pitch and could hear these distinctions clearly.

To say that they do not exist is like a person with total colour blindness saying that colour does not exist simply because he personally can't personally see it. You can say that you do not hear any difference in the property of different keys but you can not state their non existence as an objective fact because it isn't true. They do exist - just not for you (nor many others).


They may have subjective, synesthetic individual qualities for people with perfect pitch, but that's of no interest to me whatsover.

For a writer with synesthesia the letter Q may be purple or smell of honey. For everybody else (including others with synesthesia) that doesn't happen, and it's irrelevant to them.

Keys don't have individual qualities. Some listeners experience them, but those are qualities that they have imposed on the sounds themselves. They're not inherent to the sounds.
Last edited by Jehannum at Jan 23, 2014,
#27
(1) The question about perfect pitch arises because to 99% of people, an hour of silence followed by a B then a C will have the exact same impact/feel as an hour of silence followed by C then a C#. The interval is the same, so the mood/result is the same. In this sense, no key sounds different than any other.

(2) On the other hand, the way the guitar is strung, and generally tuned, different keys generally result in the relative notes -- particularly chords -- being played in different shapes. The different shapes all add different tonal qualities to the same chord. So an open G sounds different from the bar G, but both are recognizable as a G. Based on these practical differences, you may find that a song sounds better to you, when played on guitar, in one key versus another. For example, in the key of E major, the open E chord is pretty much the lowest chord you will have, so this key -- assuming you are playing with open chords a lot -- may have a more mature or solemn feel played on guitar. I think the OP was getting at that in stating a preference for certain keys, based on what the relative chord shapes for that key. Now, the more you play with barre chords or partials or whatever, or are going even further and doing inversions an what-not, it gets back to the truth that all the keys really are the same, sound the same, impact the listener the same. Or, as another example, using a capo you can theoretically even the playing field and use the same chord shapes for all keys. Except, of course, if you want to use the capo on 10 to make the D major key have the same chord shapes as the C major key, then your song will be nearly an octave higher... Then again, get a baritone guitar with capo 10 and you are playing the song just 2 semitones lower. So, there is a "fix" for that, and again you can probably work up a way to play any song in any key with the same chord shapes and same impact.
3. So, ultimately, there is no objective difference between the keys, at least within the same family (all major, all minor) Obviously, there is a difference between a major key and a minor key. So, when the guy in that movie says D minor is the saddest of keys, that's kind of an inside joke for musicians because he's so dumb, all minor keys are equally sad. Yet, you could argue that an open Em chord is "sadder" than an open Dm chord, all things being equal, because it is lower and people tend to equate low notes with solemnness which can add a pinch of sadness. On the other hand, you could argue the open Dm chord is sadder because it only uses four strings and feels less "full" and more "frail" than the Em chord that strums confidently through all six strings. Again, throw on a capo and this argument goes out the window.

So, I guess my opinion -- or working theory -- is that anyone who claims a key feels different inherently than another key in the same family is just wrong, or projecting or whatever. You can tell they are different if you have perfect pitch, just like you can tell me that 9 is a different number than 10. But there's no OBJECTIVE reason for 9 to be a sadder number than 10. All the composers in history who have perfect pitch, and who claim so feel an emotional difference between keys, all have their own personal baggage, like maybe their mother used to sing a sad lullabye to them as a child in the key of Cm, and then she died, and to them the Cm will always be a sadder key. But as an adult, how do they divorce themselves from that experience, from that memory? How do they determine if Cm sounds sadder because of that lullabye -- which they may not even remember or know about -- versus that just being the way of the universe, that Cm is sadder than Dm or whatever? You see, it's impossible.

It makes no sense to argue there is an objectively different feel to keys because it is impossible to prove, and even those with perfect pitch all have a lifetime of experiences hearing different songs in different keys with different emotional content, which skews their emotional reaction to every other song they hear, so it's just meaningless to even argue for the notion that there is such a thing as objective different feels to songs based on anecdotal assertions by individuals however perfect their pitch may be.

Ken
Bernie Sanders for President!
#30
Quote by HotspurJr
Also, G major and E minor are not the same key. Nor are B minor and D major. Yes, they share the same notes, but those notes function differently.


Well no they are not the same key but E minor is the relative minor of G major and likewise with B and D maj, so in a sense there is interchangeability (I don't think that's a word but hey we debating music theory not spelling and grammar which I'm notoriously bad at) so whilst not being the same key we could sort of look at them like cousins.

I do think we tend to lean towards some modes more than others when composing improvising, well I do anyway, when playing in a major key for example some players will automatically gravitate towards a major based scale whereas others definitely lean towards a relative minor. Mountain guitarist Leslie West was famous for his use of relative minors.
Last edited by richards-keith at Jan 26, 2014,
#31
And I never think of using Ionian mode in a million years, I'd automatically go Aeolian mode every time, it's just the way my mind works in a musical sense. That could be because for a lot of guitarists the first scale we ever learn is the pentatonic which is a minor scale, so first thing that becomes ingrained in our musical psyche is a minor scale. I'll always go minor before major but then it's funny "how strange the change from major to minor". Sorry couldn't resist that, i'll go now.
#32
Quote by richards-keith
Mountain guitarist Leslie West was famous for his use of relative minors.


So I don't really understand what you mean here.

Do you mean:

1. Leslie West was famous for playing the major scale.

2. Leslie West was famous for playing the minor scale.

3. Leslie West was famous for playing "minor shapes" in major key.

Or

4. Leslie West was famous for changing key to the relative minor.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#33
Quote by AlanHB
So I don't really understand what you mean here.

Do you mean:

1. Leslie West was famous for playing the major scale.

2. Leslie West was famous for playing the minor scale.

3. Leslie West was famous for playing "minor shapes" in major key.

Or

4. Leslie West was famous for changing key to the relative minor.


He preferred to use a relative minor scale when composing a guitar solo for a song that had been written in a major key. It was quite common with a lot of those old school rock guitarists, Ritchie Blackmore was another.
Last edited by richards-keith at Jan 26, 2014,
#34
Mixolyaidn is the yes todd is sounds the most like earth its like the closest that east than yes twits our music
#35
Quote by richards-keith
He preferred to use a relative minor scale when composing a guitar solo for a song that had been written in a major key. It was quite common with a lot of those old school rock guitarists, Ritchie Blackmore was another.


So instead the major scale he preferred to use a scale with the same notes as the major scale.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#36
Quote by AlanHB
So instead the major scale he preferred to use a scale with the same notes as the major scale.


Lol those kids font even knw whist them majors scale is
#37
Quote by AlanHB
So instead the major scale he preferred to use a scale with the same notes as the major scale.


No you are missing the point dude. By using the relative minor you can get the flavour and feel of the minor key but without straying outside the key. So if you have a song in A major you can play F# minor pentatonic, you are not going to stray from the key because all of the notes in F# minor pentatonic are present in your major key but by composing the solo using the pentatonic you retain the flavour and feel of a traditional minor pentatonic solo because you are going to use those typical minor pentatonic licks and phrases but within the context of a major key.
#38
In essence you compose differently because you think minor pentatonic solo rather than Ionian solo.
#39
bullahir hero if you pal f#minor in a ajar then ou just playing a major the "feel" doesn't exist its' all about harmony and f$ minor in A major is just a major
#40
Quote by macashmack
bullahir hero if you pal f#minor in a ajar then ou just playing a major the "feel" doesn't exist its' all about harmony and f$ minor in A major is just a major


I think I get where you're going. The point I'm making is that a solo composed using a pentatonic scale will usually different phrases and licks because you get into a mind set with pentatonic scales, you play those typical minor pentatonic runs and motifs associated with that scale, it will make you think differently than if you composed using a major scale. of course the notes are present in the relative major scale but you'll be omitting certain notes so the solo will not sound typically major based although all the notes will be present from the major scale, it's what you are omitting rather than what you are putting in, the flavour will be different because you will be using bluesy type runs rather than major type runs.
Page 1 of 2