#1
Have anyone seen a new Fender Customshop guitar which was announced in NAMM?

"Rising Sun" the symbol of Japanese Militarism during World War 2 is printed in its pick guard.
I don't belive that Fender is a US company which has a history of being attacked by Japanese troops in 1941.
They seem to love the Japan of 1941 which attacked their grand parents at Pearl Habor.
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#3
Quote by Somekid94
Its just a design that a lot of people think looks cool. There's nothing more to it than that.

Wow.. I'm suprised.

Is it also true to the Nazi Flag?
#4
The Rising Sun dates back to the Edo period. There’s a lot more history behind it than just the second World War. Your callow association of the Rising Sun with Pearl Harbor would be like the Japanese rejecting the American flag entirely on the basis of America’s bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

And Rising Sun graphics have been popular on guitars since the 80s. I’m pretty sure the California guitar makers ripped it off of skate and surfboard designs.
#6
Comparing the Rising Sun to the Nazi's Swastika is a terrible comparison.

The Rising Sun happens to look really cool on guitars as jpnyc said, it's been around on guitars since the 80s. The Japanese seem to have no gripes, so who cares.
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#7
There's also the small matter of Fender having a factory in Japan.

but yeah, obvious racist is racist.
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#8
If this is the case then Fender had better sort out some of their other finish options - Candy Apple Red (could offend people with diabetes) Fiesta Red (not an option for anyone who has had a relative killed when they were run over by a Ford hatchback) Olympic White (should be renamed Paralympic White in the spirit of political correctness) Seafoam Green (the foam you get in the sea is actually the colour of nicotine, not that of an old Mini) White Blonde (has a bit of a hint of the Master Race about it)... shall I go on?
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#9
Quote by pdkay
Wow.. I'm suprised.

Is it also true to the Nazi Flag?

Nothing wrong with the rising sun or Nazi flag
America is a land of free speech (and Fender is a US company)for you and others alike, deal with it or go live in China where the gov't controls everything.

You gonna get on Dean for making (Dime) guitars with a rebel flag on them also, "cause that's racist"

Or Al Di Meola's PRS for looking like a Gay pride flag
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#11
Nothing wrong with the rising sun or Nazi flag


Well, that second one will get you in legal trouble in places like Germany and Austria.

I will say, though, that flags on gear & clothing can be an iffy business. Just like the situation I just mentioned, other UGers have pointed out that displaying a Union Jack can get you roughed up in some northern parts of that island...

And technically, in the USA, many facsimiles of the US flag run afoul of the Flag Code (a Federal law with zero enforceability).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Flag_Code
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Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Jan 25, 2014,
#12
The Nazi Swastika is just a ripoff of a Buddhist/Hindu symbol anyway, been used for damn near a thousand years before the Nazi's took it. Shame it has such a bad rep now, it's a cool symbol.
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#13
Quote by Robbgnarly

America is a land of free speech (and Fender is a US company)for you and others alike, deal with it or go live in China where the gov't controls everything.


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#14
The Rising Sun Flag (旭日旗 Kyokujitsu-ki?) is the military flag of Japan.[1] This flag, dating from the Edo period, is used as a symbol of good fortune. On January 27, 1870, as a policy of the Meiji Restoration, it was adopted as the national flag.[2] The naval ensign and a modified version of the war flag continue to be used by the Japan Self-Defense Forces, and the design is also incorporated into many commercial products and advertisements.


The swastika was used exclusively by the nazis. The association between the two is direct.

The rising sun flag is just a japanese flag... Yes it was used during WWII when the japenese were enemies but that was 75 years ago. It was also used during WWI when they were our allies, and for another 100+ years of neutral relations.

Who cares?
#15
Quote by flexiblemile
The swastika was used exclusively by the nazis. The association between the two is direct.?

Not quite...

Quote by robertito696
The Nazi Swastika is just a ripoff of a Buddhist/Hindu symbol anyway, been used for damn near a thousand years before the Nazi's took it.

Not just them- the swastika shows up in a lot of ancient cultures round the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

The earliest archaeological evidence of swastika-shaped ornaments dates back to the Indus Valley Civilization as well as the Mediterranean Classical Antiquity and paleolithic Europe. Swastikas have also been used in various other ancient civilizations around the world including Turkic, India, Iran, Nepal, China, Japan, Korea and Europe.


There are also Celtic, Coptic Egyptian, Hopi, Navajo and others who used it.

Damn Nazis.
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Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Jan 25, 2014,
#16
Yes, we need more policing of what kind of designs companies are allowed to put on their guitars. I propose a national Guitar Finish Judging Council, which will meet every year to determine what types of guitar finishes are acceptable for private companies to create. They will judge based on the criteria of what offends the average tumblr user, and disallow anything that offends those individuals.

Soon to be banned: white finish, black finish, yellow finish, red finish, all flag finishes, all "girl" finishes or pickguards or stickers, all burst finishes.

If it was the best-playing guitar I'd ever seen, and I got it cheap, I'd play the **** out of a nazi flag guitar. Hell, put Hitler's face on the pickguard.

A non-reversed nazi flag is a manji, and in all seriousness, it would be awesome if that was a finish option for Japanese guitars.
#17
Quote by Charvel1995
Comparing the Rising Sun to the Nazi's Swastika is a terrible comparison.

The Rising Sun happens to look really cool on guitars as jpnyc said, it's been around on guitars since the 80s. The Japanese seem to have no gripes, so who cares.

Comparing the Rising Sun to the Crooked Cross is actually a great comparison. Go look up the atrocities committed by Imperial Japan if you think otherwise.
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#18
Quote by zero27
Comparing the Rising Sun to the Crooked Cross is actually a great comparison. Go look up the atrocities committed by Imperial Japan if you think otherwise.

Look at the Christian Cross, More people have died because of that religion than in every war from 1776- present day. Now that is atrocious and people have them every where
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Last edited by Robbgnarly at Jan 25, 2014,
#19
Quote by steven seagull
There's also the small matter of Fender having a factory in Japan.


Actually, Fender does not have a factory in Japan, they only have two factories, in Corona, California and Ensenada, Mexico. CIJ Fender's are actually made by the same companies that makes Tokai guitars (Tokai and Dyna Gakki). Fender Japan is just a licensing company for the Fender brand in Japan, and does not actually make any guitars itself.
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#20
Quote by jpnyc
The Rising Sun dates back to the Edo period. There’s a lot more history behind it than just the second World War. Your callow association of the Rising Sun with Pearl Harbor would be like the Japanese rejecting the American flag entirely on the basis of America’s bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

And Rising Sun graphics have been popular on guitars since the 80s. I’m pretty sure the California guitar makers ripped it off of skate and surfboard designs.


Yup, this ^^^
#21
Maybe I'd find it odd that a non-japanese person would play a guitar with a japanese flag on it, but I don't see anything offensive about it. It's people that complain about "racist" things that make racism still exist.
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#22
The confederit flag has always been a popular guitar design should we ban that because of its association with slavery? How about the american flag for the same reasons along with killing millions of innocents in Japan and invading Iraq for oil? While were at it let's ban any religious symbols on guitars and maybe Gibson logos as well they did use illegal wood a couple years ago.
#23
I find it ridiculous that people put this much emphasis on single bad things that cultures did. Why not have the Rising Sun? Yes, we went to war with them, they bombed Pearl Harbor. But should we really let this one incident define the society as a whole? Every nation or group has had their dark moments. The US slaughtered the Natives, should we burn our flag?

For example, I'm from the southern US. I proudly display the Confederate Battle Flag. I don't do it to offend, I'm not racist. Neither are most that display it. I'm simply proud of my heritage as a Southerner. My great-great-great grandfather fought in the Confederate Army because his rights were infringed on by the US government. Does that mean I think slavery was okay? Absolutely not. Does that mean I support the Ku Klux Klan, who are using that flag in a completely disgraceful way? Of course not.

My point is, I don't think any symbol of a particular people should be banned because of an incident in that people's history. Every society has had it's darker side.
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#24
the point of this thread is that the rising sun symbol is not specifically a world war 2 symbol. It was used in WWII but is not exclusive of it. As such, it's possible to use the symbol to refer to other things than that.

As we pointed out earlier, it is STILL USED BY JAPANESE organisations. Are you saying that these current government organisations are in any way related to the fascist governments of the thirties and forties apart from the fact that they're japanese?

However, all this being said, the only reason Fender used this logo is because people think it looks cool. If you want to blame anyone, don't blame Fender but the people who buy it.
#25
Quote by Br0c00ler
Maybe I'd find it odd that a non-japanese person would play a guitar with a japanese flag on it, but I don't see anything offensive about it. It's people that complain about "racist" things that make racism still exist.


No, it's racists that make racism still exist. Talking about it is a good thing.
#26
Quote by flexiblemile
The swastika was used exclusively by the nazis. The association between the two is direct.

Um, no. The Nazis adopted it because of its association with good fortune and stuff like that.
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#27
The only flag you should fly to display your southern "pride" is the white surrender flag. Confederates lost the war the same amount of pride can be flown with a regular american flag since you know the south is part of America....flying a confederate flag really means you support secession.
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#28
Much ado about nothing. People put all kinds of images on their guitars; some of them are indeed designed to piss people off. Consider Jeff Hanneman's ESP adorned with SS sleeve cuffs from various SS divisions, or his guitar with the pearl "Seig" rune and SS Panzer Unit key design for the position markers. Zakk Wylde has a favorite Les Paul adorned with a Rebel Flag (that's the St. Andrew's Cross for you history buffs), along with beer bottle caps (offensive to the Temperance League) and scorch marks (insensitive to pyromaniacs). Tom Morello painted "Arm the Homeless" on one of his guitars (the anti-gun faction must hate that). Michael Anthony has a bass in the image of a bottle of Jack Daniels (no doubt insensitive to alcoholics and people who prefer Maker's Mark or Jim Beam), and let's not even start with the many pornographic images that have adorned guitars, basses and drum kits since the 1960s (remember the Wangcaster?)..

Some people find the Rising Sun very controversial; even in Japan. But a lot of young Americans associate it with the Japanese Kamikaze pilots - something that has taken on a life of its own with people who do crazy and dangerous things just for fun. In the Western world, it has become nearly impossible to disassociate the swastika from the Nazis and their crimes, so you can argue that the "offensiveness" comes down to a matter of degrees. Who cares? Put whatever you want on your instruments and if people don't like it, then they won't listen to your music.
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#29
Quote by Reverb&Reggae
The only flag you should fly to display your southern "pride" is the white surrender flag. Confederates lost the war the same amount of pride can be flown with a regular american flag since you know the south is part of America....flying a confederate flag really means you support secession.


+1. The Rising Sun has hundreds of years of honorable behavior behind it. The only thing the confederate flag stands for is vile racist assholes who were willing to commit treason to continue human slavery.
#30
Quote by Reverb&Reggae
The only flag you should fly to display your southern "pride" is the white surrender flag. Confederates lost the war the same amount of pride can be flown with a regular american flag since you know the south is part of America....flying a confederate flag really means you support secession.

We'll just have to agree to disagree there. We've always gotten along R&R, so I'm not being argumentative, just showing you where I come from.

That flag represents Americans who fought and died for their homeland. The screwed up politics of the time created what was viewed as a "northern invasion of the south". The South retaliated. Nobody was blameless. There were many changes that needed to be made (not just slavery, which was not even a strong focal point of the war until a brilliant political move by Lincoln), and the events that took place helped build America into a stronger nation. I thank the men in both gray and blue for that. Unfortunately certain idiots in the nation have made that flag represent something different that it was ever meant to. I think you'll find most that display it feel the same and are as patriotic as anyone.


My Confederate flag flies right below my American flag, I respect the men that fought for each
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