#1
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/07/24/hackers-reveal-nasty-new-car-attacks-with-me-behind-the-wheel-video/

Stomping on the brakes of a 3,500-pound Ford Escape that refuses to stop–or even slow down–produces a unique feeling of anxiety. In this case it also produces a deep groaning sound, like an angry water buffalo bellowing somewhere under the SUV’s chassis. The more I pound the pedal, the louder the groan gets–along with the delighted cackling of the two hackers sitting behind me in the backseat.

Luckily, all of this is happening at less than 5mph. So the Escape merely plows into a stand of 6-foot-high weeds growing in the abandoned parking lot of a South Bend, Ind. strip mall that Charlie Miller and Chris Valasek have chosen as the testing grounds for the day’s experiments, a few of which are shown in the video below. (When Miller discovered the brake-disabling trick, he wasn’t so lucky: The soccer-mom mobile barreled through his garage, crushing his lawn mower and inflicting $150 worth of damage to the rear wall.)


Modern cars contain a network of dozens of computers and there is pretty much nothing in terms of the security of this network. The results? Disabled brakes, false speed readings, the wheels turning beneath you... the possibilities are nearly endless.

I attended a technical lecture on this topic this morning and I find it really concerning that these security vulnerabilities still exist, even when today's new cars are connecting to the Internet (aka the biggest security risk there is today). The CTO putting the lecture on explained how easy it is - if you send a message over the car's computer network, it will be received and processed, no questions asked. Sending false messages is a cakewalk.

Your thoughts?
Last edited by RPGoof at Jan 27, 2014,
#4
Some of us don't have that luxury
Thats another reason why I'd like to move to Canada , Toronto's public transit isn't great but it certainly beats the ghetto bus around these parts
#6
That's absolutely terrifying. Those are huge vulnerabilities. And what are you supposed to say if something like that happened to you? "I don't know what happened, officer. I hit the brakes when I saw those kids crossing the street, but my car sped up instead of slowing down!"
#7
I hate computers on cars. Period. I much prefer a purely mechanic car.

First off, maintenance-wise, it allows for DIY work. Get a Haynes Manual for your car, find a good parts store that gives you sizable discounts, while working on the car yourself shaves off the labor expenses, and you're looking at really affordable maintenance. (And it's also a great hobby if you're into that sort of thing.)

Secondly, a purely mechanical car forces you to learn to drive properly and to develop your driving skills. Without all those computers to fix your mistakes, you have to be fully aware of what you're doing. No ABS, no ESP, no automatic gearbox, no torque vectoring systems... Not only you need to deeply know your car, it demands your attention to be properly driven.
Don't know how to drive a purely mechanical car? Then you can't have a driver's license. You don't belong on the road behind a wheel.

Third point, computers get obsolete. Even if we ignore the possibility of hacking a car's systems, those very systems designed to keep you safe(r) on the road will become obsolete and possibly faulty, which may create more problems than avoid them.

Four, when the time comes that those obsolete computers can't be replaced, it will make the car impossible to use. This just creates more waste, as it already happens with lots of other consumer items these days.
Get a purely mechanical car, and it can be used forever. Engines can be rebuilt, chassis and bodywork can be restored/remade. Even when replacement parts cease to exist, they can be fabricated somewhat easily.

Five, and i do realise this argument isn't appliable to 99% of drivers, and it's also highly subjective, but for me the driving pleasure factor is extremely important.
It's not the same thing to drive a purely mechanical car and a modern, computer assisted car. I'd rather have a Ford Escort Mk.I instead of a Ford Fiesta/Focus, for example.


Overall, computer systems on cars make cars safer and easier to drive.
But IMHO, they not only have security risks (albeit marginal), as they contribute to the decline on driving skills, too.
New drivers seem to drive progressively worse, paying more attention to the infotainment systems than to what they're doing on the road, and relying on those computer "guardian angels" to make up for their lack of driving skills.
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#8
Quote by Linkerman

New drivers seem to drive progressively worse, paying more attention to the infotainment systems than to what they're doing on the road, and relying on those computer "guardian angels" to make up for their lack of driving skills.

lost it
#9
Quote by willT08
Quote by Linkerman
New drivers seem to drive progressively worse, paying more attention to the infotainment systems than to what they're doing on the road, and relying on those computer "guardian angels" to make up for their lack of driving skills.

lost it

From Wikipedia:

In-Car Entertainment, (sometimes referred to as ICE, or IVI as in In-Vehicle Infotainment), is a collection of hardware devices installed into automobiles, or other forms of transportation, to provide audio and/or audio/visual entertainment, as well as automotive navigation systems (SatNav). This includes playing media such as CDs, DVDs, Freeview/TV, USB and/or other optional surround sound, or DSP systems. Also increasingly common in ICE installs are the incorporation of video game consoles into the vehicle.
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#11
Isn't the handbrake purely mechanical?
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


MUSIC THEORY LINK
#12
analog > digital

Quote by rockingamer2
Isn't the handbrake purely mechanical?

In most modern cars it isn't.
You who build these altars now

To sacrifice these children
You must not do it anymore
#14
Quote by willT08
I can't take this

cuz u know its true bb
You who build these altars now

To sacrifice these children
You must not do it anymore
#15
Quote by the bartender
analog > digital


In most modern cars it isn't.

Huh. Good thing elevators have a purely mechanical stopping system as a fail-safe if any of the electronics get compromised.
^^The above is a Cryptic Metaphor^^


"To know the truth of history is to realize its ultimate myth and its inevitable ambiguity." Everything is made up and the facts don't matter.


MUSIC THEORY LINK
#16
Quote by Linkerman
I hate computers on cars. Period. I much prefer a purely mechanic car.

First off, maintenance-wise, it allows for DIY work. Get a Haynes Manual for your car, find a good parts store that gives you sizable discounts, while working on the car yourself shaves off the labor expenses, and you're looking at really affordable maintenance. (And it's also a great hobby if you're into that sort of thing.)


Yes!
Though when it comes down to it, you can still interact with the computers. The usual interaction though is either completely replacing the hardware or re-writing the software (the only thing that requires authentication) and it's actively done as "chip-tuning" your car for higher performance. Though cars aren't really my forte so I'm not sure how difficult that really is.

Third point, computers get obsolete. Even if we ignore the possibility of hacking a car's systems, those very systems designed to keep you safe(r) on the road will become obsolete and possibly faulty, which may create more problems than avoid them.


I don't think this is a problem, since the computer in the car isn't changing over time to adapt to the present like PC software does. The same computer will be able to run the same basic software when its made 10 years ago as it does, as long as the computer is still in one piece. The only problem I see here is the "learning" software on the computers being programmed poorly for long-term use. The CTO that lectured to us used his 98 Fiat sports car as a prime example. The software, over time, starts sending garbage data to the learning program (which pertains to some engine performance thing, I don't remember exactly) and it effectively learns to become useless, if not harmful to engine performance.

Four, when the time comes that those obsolete computers can't be replaced, it will make the car impossible to use. This just creates more waste, as it already happens with lots of other consumer items these days.
Get a purely mechanical car, and it can be used forever. Engines can be rebuilt, chassis and bodywork can be restored/remade. Even when replacement parts cease to exist, they can be fabricated somewhat easily.

I think this is a bit of an exaggeration

infotainment

Not only do I hate the word, but I had the product's existance on the marketplace. Why have a 7" touch screen on your dashboard to distract you more, especially when using a cell phone and driving is illegal in a lot of places?
#17
Quote by RPGoof
Though when it comes down to it, you can still interact with the computers. The usual interaction though is either completely replacing the hardware or re-writing the software (the only thing that requires authentication) and it's actively done as "chip-tuning" your car for higher performance. Though cars aren't really my forte so I'm not sure how difficult that really is.

Of course you can do it, but it's not something accessible to every and anyone in their garage. It requires specific hardware and software, and the knowledge on how to use them... Not the kind of thing you can find cheap and easily like tools and parts, that are, for the most part, simple to use and replace by yourself.

Hell, one of the things i find most difficult is having to pull an engine (and sometimes with the transmission too) upwards from its compartment and putting it back after working on it.
And yet, it's still doable by yourself, you just need one more person to give a little help with orientation while you raise/drop it with a chain.


Quote by RPGoof
I don't think this is a problem, since the computer in the car isn't changing over time to adapt to the present like PC software does. The same computer will be able to run the same basic software when its made 10 years ago as it does, as long as the computer is still in one piece. The only problem I see here is the "learning" software on the computers being programmed poorly for long-term use. The CTO that lectured to us used his 98 Fiat sports car as a prime example. The software, over time, starts sending garbage data to the learning program (which pertains to some engine performance thing, I don't remember exactly) and it effectively learns to become useless, if not harmful to engine performance.

I meant obsolete in the sense that they may become faulty, creating problems instead of avoiding them.


Quote by RPGoof
I think this is a bit of an exaggeration

It isn't, believe me.
I was precisely discussing this subject with some friends a little while ago. Manufacturers won't maintain assistance to your vehicle forever, and even if the software doesn't pose problems, there'll be degradation of the physical components over time -- and those faults you simply can't ignore. When the time comes that you won't be able to replace some of those highly sofisticated electronic parts simply because they don't exist in the market anymore and can't be fabricated, you're basically S.O.O.L. and your car became absolutely useless.

Now, what i discussed with my friends is that we can probably replace the computorized systems with mechanical ones. For example, swap an electronic-controlled engine head for carburators, auto gearboxes for a manual counterpart, and so on, ensuring that the car remains on the road.
It won't be an easy thing to do, removing all the electronic systems, it's certainly illegal in many countries that have strict laws about car modification (like mine), but basically you'll get a vintage, mechanical car with a modern car's chassis and shell.


Quote by RPGoof
Not only do I hate the word, but I had the product's existance on the marketplace. Why have a 7" touch screen on your dashboard to distract you more, especially when using a cell phone and driving is illegal in a lot of places?

Exactly.
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