#1
Okay how would I go about writing Doom Metal? I think it sounds like an interesting concept to explore but tips on composing it are vague at best. Examples of bands I'm thinking of are Black Sabbath and Candlemass. I'll throw in some more influences down below. Please give me some tips for songwriting and guitar work (common tempos, techniques, intervals, harmonies, and stuff).
Here's Candlemass' "Black Dwarf" (great but short song by the Epic Doom Metal Pioneers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8th_3AoTm_E
Here's Black Sabbath's "Electric Funeral"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsLkL8DTHeg
Don't forget "NIB" (also by Black Sabbath)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_SGQycuXUw
Let's throw in Nightwish's "Paradise (What about Us?)" just for feel and kicks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy6MpsDPKts

Those are some examples of the style I'm attempting. I'd appreciate some help a lot.
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
Last edited by RonaldPoe at Jan 27, 2014,
#3
Were any of those videos really doom metal?
Gear:
EBMM Bongo HS 4
EBMM Sting Ray 5
Eden D410T
Tech 21 Sansamp RBI
Tech 21 Sansamp RPM
Art 341 Dual Channel EQ
QSC GX5 Power Amp
#4
Find the Key.

Notate the riffs.

Analyse the intervals used, against the other chords in the progression.

Observe the intervals that seem to create the signature sound of the song.

Now that you know how they did it, do that for several other songs, and you'll begin to find tendencies in their approach to songwriting and riffs.

Continue doing that for every song and band that you like, and absorb the information you get from observation.

Best,

Sean
#7
Thanks Sean, but I was looking for some advice, not someone to say "Go do it yourself". My ears aren't perfect and still need practice. I also play with my fingers (mainly because it's more efficient and accurate for me). Sorry if I'm sounding rude.

To answer GuitarMunky, I haven't tried learning those songs yet (I was going to try to learn "Electric Funeral" though). Some suggestions and techniques to learn would be nice. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_metal if you don't know what Doom Metal is.
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
Last edited by RonaldPoe at Jan 27, 2014,
#9
'go do it yourself' is excellent advice. The reason your ears are not perfect is because you arent doing it yourself. dont be lazy.
#10
Quote by RonaldPoe
Thanks Sean, but I was looking for some advice, not someone to say "Go do it yourself". My ears aren't perfect and still need practice. I also play with my fingers (mainly because it's more efficient and accurate for me). Sorry if I'm sounding rude.


No worries dude - if you need some help with Doom try these out:

IDKFA

IDDQD

Cheers!
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#11
You gotta go about and transcribe some good songs you like that are as close to the genre definition as possible, if you are serious about it. Figure out what type of riffs, chords, how they play their notes, song structure, techniques used - what backing instruments are they using - if any? Drumming style and rhythm, tempo (30 bpm of course ), irregular time signatures, etc - all the good stuff. You'll figure out all this if you transcribe it and you'll understand how it works together, in time enough to write your own.
#12
I'm just asking for the basics to get me started (common tempos, elements of the style, techniques, intervals, ect). The real reason my ears aren't that great is because I'm still learning and developing my ear (I'm a bit of a beginner to transcribing). I usually ask things because I don't know about it and can't find good information.

I also am a fan of the Minor scale and believe every guitarist should learn it (at least Am, Em, and Bm). It's just so emotional and versatile (can evoke a pirate, gypsy, sad, gothic, Arabian, or more sounds). It's also great for Heavy Metal (all of it) and Progressive Rock. I know this is unrelated but I believe the word should be passed.
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
#13
Quote by AlanHB
No worries dude - if you need some help with Doom try these out:

IDKFA

IDDQD

Cheers!



woah. Genuinely lol'd. Very clever
"I agree with Matthew about everything" - Everyone
#14
Quote by RonaldPoe
I'm just asking for the basics to get me started (common tempos, elements of the style, techniques, intervals, ect).


The reason you're getting replies which may not seem helpful to you is because there really isn't a good way to reply to this question, the answers are all self-evident to anyone with a musical ear who's listened to enough music labelled 'doom metal'. The common tempos are slow, apart from that the melodic language and instrument-specific techniques are what you'd expect to find from any heavy metal band. Frankly the fact that 'doom metal' is even considered a genre unto itself by some people is kind of a joke.

If you asked broader questions about music in general, you'd probably get better responses and hopefully learn enough that you'd be able to answer niche questions like this for yourself.
.
#15
play a power chord. wait a while. play another one. tempos are usually pretty slow for doom.
use lots of bass and gain, turn the amp presense down a lot. downtune the guitar a few steps. probably use a drop tuning too. maybe a fuzz pedal.
all chords and scales are used in different songs, but E minor and A minor pentatonic is no doubt common. use the flattened fifth 'tritone' interval for that satanic sound. learning to transcribe the song you like is THE best way to learn the common style elements as sean pointed out.

honestly, just playing a few chords slowly with the right guitar tone is about it.
#16
Thanks Innovine, that was very helpful (turning up bass on my amp, using flattened fifths/'tritones', and more ear training). I've also heard accented 8th notes sound good but by slow tempos, do you mean 50-80 BPM (average of 60)? Anyone got any more style elements used? I chose a "niche" subgenre like this out of curiosity and for clarity (if you don't ask specific questions, you probably will get a wrong answer).

I also say that if you can't get what you want outta the minor scale, you're not using it right.
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
Last edited by RonaldPoe at Jan 28, 2014,
#17
Quote by RonaldPoe
To answer GuitarMunky, I haven't tried learning those songs yet (I was going to try to learn "Electric Funeral" though).


so what you're saying is that you don't have any experience playing the style, but you want to compose it? to compose in a certain musical style you need (at bare minimum) good knowledge of it (to go even further than the average presents you with options that those who didn't progress as far do not have). it doesn't work in the way of "i just want to do it for shits and giggles, what kinds of things can i use?" because if that were the case, literally everyone (even people who couldn't play music) could do it. it's like asking if i can paint a cubist work even though i've never actually studied cubism.

listen to guitarmunky. if you're only lacking one thing, it's the most important ingredient: experience. there is no substitute for experience, and without it, your efforts will be wasted.

music is an investment in many, many ways. invest your time into learning the music you want to emulate to get a better idea of how to compose it.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#19
There are doom songs with nothing but 8th notes, and doom songs with nothing but quarters and doom songs with whole notes, and doom songs with one note. This is why you need to actually listen to something. With your ears.
#20
You have to break the song into parts.
Part A for the chores. Part B for the verse.
Then it's optional to do a bridge. Maybe part C for the solo.
Instead of doing a part C. You can use part A or B to solo over.

For the bridge riffs just go up a perfect 4th or 5th

Then choose whether you want to do 8, 12 or 16 bars.
Then break that in half to do questions and answer phrasing with a riffs.
The riffs are just slight variation.
Then do the same for the verse. Palm mute, gallop, arpeggio or just straight chords so the singer can sing or whatever.

Just use the E string or A string for pedal . You can even Drop D tune on the E


Just play these notes on the A string (5th fret, 7th fret and 8th) as you pedal off the E string
Then maybe these notes on E string at the end of the riffs. ( 5th...then 4th or 6th)
Ab and Bb is going give it tension. The A is sort of root or 4th...Don't worry about theory.

Then for the verse just play bar chords. Maybe,... Bb,open A, Bb, then pedal the E.(palm mute
or whatever. For whatever how many bars. Do questions and anwers
Make squeak with artificial harmonics or whatever.

Just work around that...extend it to whatever you like.

Or do like this dude. It's not so much the notes he hits..it's the way he's playing it.
You can always use different notes and punches.
You can always use a harmonic minor scale or play it at a lower pitch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqUv8uPDneo
Last edited by smc818 at Jan 29, 2014,
#21
AeolianWolf, that was somewhat harsh but you make a point. I guess it's hard to compose in a style without first learning to play it. I thought because I write electronic music that I could cross over to Doom Metal (stupid idea I know). I was going to use melodies obtained that way and incorporate them in a Doom Metal setting. Thanks for the advice anyway. Do you like the Minor Scale and see it's importance to the average guitarist?
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
#22
Why do you keep going on about the minor scale? I think this is a troll
#23
Quote by RonaldPoe
Do you like the Minor Scale and see it's importance to the average guitarist?

More importantly, the minor tonalities are pretty damn useful in Doom Metal. Although, if you do it right, you can make major tonalities sound sinister and "Doom-y". That's why people are recommending examples of Doom metal songs/bands to you: so that you can learn to get a feel for the genre. See what the influential bands did, what worked, what you liked/disliked, etc. You really need to delve into the genre more, imho. The first half of this post from the Metal rec's thread should help you out; that list is pretty solid.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Jan 29, 2014,
#24
TS, the reason you're getting pushback here is because there's only two ways you're going to get your answer.

1. You learn songs in the genre, analyse them and slowly get a feel for the features that make the genre unique.

2. We learn songs in the genre, analyse them and slowly get a feel for the features that make the genre unique, then we teach you what we've learned.

We want option 1. You want option 2.

Anyways why do you want to write Doom stuff? You don't even like it enough to learn songs in the genre.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#25
You don't really need a minor scale to create tension.
What you need to under are the intervals that will create tension.
Some of those intervals are call minor intervals....Kind of like the black keys on the
piano. If you hit the root note from the C note, then to any of those black keys.

The harmonic minor scale is the the Aeolian mode with a raised 7th.
The raised 7th create tension.
Just like the -2 and -5 in the locrian

An example is the theme to the twighlight zone. It's in the whole tone scale
but you must play it in a certain minor intervals to create series of tension notes.

listen to Bach...It's pretty damn evil
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB7WKW7oEIY

It helps if you know how to get mean tones from your guitar.
Playing A5 power chords with distortion isn't always going to work.
You need a tube driver and some sort of wha or phaser filter...like a marley pedal
with built in drive. If you just play the 1,3. It's like an inversion as the 5th and 7.
The 7th in a major scale create tension. Or -3, 5 because you're not playing the
root note.
It's also one of the ways to playing in different keys when soloing over a chord
because you simply don't know what the freaken root is actually.

Just because a lower frequency note is playing played with it...(the bass) That
still dosnt dictate what the root is. If it's too confusing in theory for you don't worry about. Just learn to listen for notes or intervals that'll sound dissonance to your ear.
In other words..it'll sound wacked , not nice or happy.

Tension can also be created by the way you play a note or volume.
Think of hitting a note on a piano key really really hard and loud. It wont sound
nice or happy either.


If you pick the notes as harmonic pinching, it'll stress the crap out of a note or give
tension. It's not always the notes you play. It's how you play the notes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUdHsLjM3uw

All 5 chords in maj scale. It's the way he's playing to chord. I scrap the strings when I do it to get that crazy tone. It's in the key of Gmaj. Again the 7th (F#) gives the scale tension.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l23ih29Pmj0
Last edited by smc818 at Jan 29, 2014,
#26
Quote by RonaldPoe
AeolianWolf, that was somewhat harsh but you make a point. I guess it's hard to compose in a style without first learning to play it. I thought because I write electronic music that I could cross over to Doom Metal (stupid idea I know). I was going to use melodies obtained that way and incorporate them in a Doom Metal setting. Thanks for the advice anyway. Do you like the Minor Scale and see it's importance to the average guitarist?


Oh, you want to cross-breed the styles of music. You can do that by learning each one in-depth or only taking surface aspects of both and throwing them together. A lot of people take the latter, but it's usually very vapid and not worth people's time.
#27
Quote by RonaldPoe
AeolianWolf, that was somewhat harsh


i don't care.

Quote by RonaldPoe
but you make a point.


i wouldn't have said anything otherwise.

Quote by RonaldPoe
I guess it's hard to compose in a style without first learning to play it. I thought because I write electronic music that I could cross over to Doom Metal (stupid idea I know). I was going to use melodies obtained that way and incorporate them in a Doom Metal setting. Thanks for the advice anyway. Do you like the Minor Scale and see it's importance to the average guitarist?


that doesn't make sense. just because i can write a pop tune doesn't mean i have the knowledge of jazz harmony necessary to write the equivalent of a jazz standard.

yes, i like the minor scale, but i tend to compose in major keys more often. though i guess it really varies. i use whatever is necessary to express the message the music is trying to convey. it's all about prosody -- the choices you make as a musician must reflect the inherent message.

every great work of art has prosody.

smc818 also has a fantastic point - you don't need the minor scale to create tension. music is all about tension and resolution, and if the major key were incapable of creating tension it would not be in use.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#28
SMC818, you understand perfectly (tension is very important in evoking feelings and keeping audiences entertained). Some of you guys have never heard that good melodies and interesting chord progressions can be used in more than one genre (they just have to be good). We all write our blueprints (basics for the song) in our own way (I use electronic music to obtain it while others may fiddle with their guitar). I understand that I have a lot to learn and will start learning a few Doom Metal songs (such as Black Sabbath's "Electric Funeral") to get a feel for it. I'm not trying to say that you can write Jazz perfectly if you know how to write a pop tune (although knowing that wouldn't hurt anything).

Don't say I don't care (I'm actually very passionate about music) and am ignorant (I wouldn't be asking in attempts to gain knowledge if I was). I guess I should train my ear more and learn a little more theory. Thanks everyone for trying to help.
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
#29
Quote by RonaldPoe
SMC818, you understand perfectly (tension is very important in evoking feelings and keeping audiences entertained). Some of you guys have never heard that good melodies and interesting chord progressions can be used in more than one genre (they just have to be good). We all write our blueprints (basics for the song) in our own way (I use electronic music to obtain it while others may fiddle with their guitar). I understand that I have a lot to learn and will start learning a few Doom Metal songs (such as Black Sabbath's "Electric Funeral") to get a feel for it. I'm not trying to say that you can write Jazz perfectly if you know how to write a pop tune (although knowing that wouldn't hurt anything).

Don't say I don't care (I'm actually very passionate about music) and am ignorant (I wouldn't be asking in attempts to gain knowledge if I was). I guess I should train my ear more and learn a little more theory. Thanks everyone for trying to help.


it's one of those "the more you know, the less you know" kind of things.

good luck, and don't stop.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.