#1
Was recently listening to Lethe's "When Dreams Become Nightmares" release and I wondered, what makes this metal?

It's been described to me as an Avant Garde Black Metal album... and honestly I don't see the Black Metal part save from the guitar tones found in the background of the work.

Here's one of the tracks from the album:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRs_6J4ZD2g

The only other "Avant Garde" release I've come across is the rather spastic release from the French project Pryapisme. I'm not really trying to make a point per say with this thread, but I'm certainly interested in the boards opinions on the Avant Garde section of metal in general, and perhaps some artist recommendations.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#2
I am not familiar with the band or the album, but I can tell you that on a quick listen to that song out of the context of the album, the word "metal" does not come to mind when contemplating genre classification.
#3
I honestly agree, but it is thrown around in metal circles for whatever reason as being at least tangentially related to the genre. There are some metal elements, especially tonally, it's a very dark album. However the metal of the album is mixed in with about 5 other genres, it's a hybrid but it is still part metal.

Probably what makes it experimental.

Edit: Also possibly because one of the members is Anna Murphy form Eluveitie
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
Last edited by ChemicalFire at Feb 1, 2014,
#4
Black metal has been so polluted by non-metal influences from neoclassical darkwave to folk to ambient that it's not surprising that fans of it often have a difficult time correctly identifying what is metal.
#5
There's a lot of stuff around that gets labelled stuff like 'Avant-Garde Black Metal' or 'Post-Black Metal' and none of it really is, but I think marketing departments find it easier to market something edgy sounding like 'Experimental Black Metal' than 'Kind of Gothy Synth-Rock.'

There are a lot of good Experimental/Progressive/Avant-Garde whatever you want to call it Black Metal bands out there though. Some bands in France have done some awesome stuff like Blut aus Nord and Deathspell Omega, elsewhere in the world there are bands like Diabolical Masquerade, Solefald and Ludicra. I could name drop bands all day but I want to keep my douchyness quotient to a minimum.
Vinland, Vinland Über Alles

"Why do they still call me a warlord? And mad? All I want to do is create the perfect genetic soldier!"
#7
Check out Sigh's album Insomniphobia. This album is about as strange metal can get and at the same time still be amazing.
#9
bing bong guitars with no context whatsoever = no thx
lstfm

I'm a Nazi, baby
I'm a Nazi, yes I am
I'm a Nazi schatzi, you know I'll fight for the Fatherland
#11
the essence of it can be found in their albums beyond SMRC


tuneless passages that serve merely as textural embellishment instead of being a vehicle for a melody

sure it gives them a unique atmosphere but it's not very musical or tasteful, unless you're into 20th century "art" music
lstfm

I'm a Nazi, baby
I'm a Nazi, yes I am
I'm a Nazi schatzi, you know I'll fight for the Fatherland
Last edited by The Wildchild at Feb 2, 2014,
#12
Quote by The Wildchild
the essence of it can be found in their albums beyond SMRC


tuneless passages that serve merely as textural embellishment instead of being a vehicle for a melody

sure it gives them a unique atmosphere but it's not very musical or tasteful, unless you're into 20th century "art" music


After Si Monumentum? I don't ****ing know, I ain't listened that far.
#13
Well the whole point of Avant Garde is for it to be strikingly different to the common conception of what metal is.

So The Wildchild's description kinda hits the nail on the head... I like the work of John Zorn, I like that kinda thing.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
#14
Quote by Morphogenesis26
After Si Monumentum? I don't ****ing know, I ain't listened that far.


I'd say 'Fas – Ite, Maledicti, in Ignem Aeternum' is better if anything. Si Monumentum is a lot more chaotic, since it's essentially themed around hell and the void, Fas - Ite is more focused and melodic, but still has a sort of conflicted and violent nature to it.

Also Wildchild hates everything he doesn't like. I guess that seems kinda obvious but he just really needs everyone else to know he doesn't like thing.
Vinland, Vinland Über Alles

"Why do they still call me a warlord? And mad? All I want to do is create the perfect genetic soldier!"
#16
Not liking bad things is the crux of survival, I think
lstfm

I'm a Nazi, baby
I'm a Nazi, yes I am
I'm a Nazi schatzi, you know I'll fight for the Fatherland
#18
Quote by EqualOfHeaven

Also Wildchild hates everything he doesn't like. I guess that seems kinda obvious but he just really needs everyone else to know he doesn't like thing.


Wildchild also happens to hate a lot of terrible music.

Fas and Si Monumentum both bore the living fuck out of me for the same reasons.

Avantgarde for the sake of avantgarde is terrible. I'll stick to The Residents, Ben Frost, The Skaters, Skullflower, Burnt Hills and the like when looking for an Avantgarde fix.

Protip, adding "exotic" instruments and passages to your boring Metal does not make for Avantgarde.
A heathen, conceivably
but not,

I hope,
I’m not ashamed to be white
Vi doede ikke... vi har aldri levd
Barbarism is the natural state of mankind
Civilization is unnatural

It is a whim of circumstance
an unenlightened one
#19
Quote by VampireGoldfish
Wildchild also happens to hate a lot of terrible music.

Fas and Si Monumentum both bore the living fuck out of me for the same reasons.

Avantgarde for the sake of avantgarde is terrible. I'll stick to The Residents, Ben Frost, The Skaters, Skullflower, Burnt Hills and the like when looking for an Avantgarde fix.

Protip, adding "exotic" instruments and passages to your boring Metal does not make for Avantgarde.
I read this as Ben Folds,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt5EHAqhR1c

then I realised you said Ben Frost, and thus realised that I had no idea who you were talking about.

#21
I got sent a promo copy of the Prypasime (or however you spell it) album...

Avant-garde as a term is pretty vague. It refers to something never done before but that's depending on individual experience and on a wider scale how well known the release is or becomes. However, for stuff typically named "avant-garde metal" and similar areas of music, check out Zu, Unexpect, Diablo Swing Orchestra, Naked City, Sigh, Dodecahedron, Deathspell Omega , Earth's Earth 2, Do Fashion Disco, Psyopus, Stolen Babies, Menace Ruine etc.
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#22
Figured I would show my face since avant-garde and experimental metal is what I would consider my forte.
First off, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum - This band puts the avant-garde twist into death metal / extreme metal. Very heavy, quite sporadic. Not my cup of tea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELyco68w5ks
^ this songs lyrics are all taken from the book Fynigans Wake. The book took 8 years to write and is considered the hardest read in the English language. Google it, it's interesting.

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Second and possibly my favorite avant-garde act out there. It's UneXpecT. Female vocals, screams, violins, 9 string bass, piano. Probably the most sporadic band I know, really really fun, always come out smiling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CgLBeWeL-4

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Last for this showcase. A one man project from the depths of sevenstring.org. Unjustly Labled. This is probably my favorite experimental album/EP. It can't be categorised easily , but you could use the words LOW, DOOM and SLOW. The guitars on this album are 8 strings tuned down an octave. Shits low.
https://unjustlylabeled.bandcamp.com/album/bizarro
Possibly my biggest recommendation on this list ^. Play it loud and play dark souls at the same time.

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I don't often come to this forum, I usually keep to my homeground on sevenstring.org , but I might return with more findings in the future.
LeakyFlask
You know what would be really sweet? Having a beautiful bird inlaid around the first fret, taking a majestic dump with airborne droppings around the 5th, 7th, 9th frets and so on, with a graceful impact around the 22nd-24th.
Last edited by jonathan.keeler at Feb 3, 2014,
#23
UneXpect suck. So do the other two bands you mentioned.

Quote by VampireGoldfish
Protip, adding "exotic" instruments and passages to your boring Metal does not make for Avantgarde.


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Wildchild had it right though with Windham Hell:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rn7Zmuh_jM

I don't know what avant-garde is. I don't think many do if any at all, it's pretty clear we just know what avant-garde isn't.

It isn't metal. Weird to think it could be, but maybe it could be. Acts like Devil Doll and Windham Hell emphasize sounds that can be construed as metal. I personally think our boldest definition of avant-garde is examining the line between music and non-music.

The use of silence and unconventional noises can help us shape the idea of avant-garde, but I'm not going to define it. It seems almost dirty and forsaken to define it, at least as a new definition separate from the classical definition applicable to classical music.

I'll agree with Vamps in saying that I'll listen to avant-garde that has nothing to do with metal. Speaking of,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbTIhC79UJ4
#24
Windham Hell not only released some awesome music but paved the way for I Shalt Become - Poison

And for that I'll be eternally grateful.
A heathen, conceivably
but not,

I hope,
I’m not ashamed to be white
Vi doede ikke... vi har aldri levd
Barbarism is the natural state of mankind
Civilization is unnatural

It is a whim of circumstance
an unenlightened one
#25
Going this long without a mention of Frank Zappa's hijinks should be a crime. One Size Fits All is a phenomenal album.
HESSIAN HAREM
FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF THE HESSIAN CULTURE. STAY TRUE.
#26
"There is no avant garde. There are only people who are a little late."
- Edgard Varèse (admittedly, I can not longer source this quote, so it may be false. Sad day)

I think that the greatest gift the avant garde ideal has given us, is the capacity to think in a serious manner about the abstract ideal that is genre and form. This is true of course in all art forms, poetry being the most prominent in my view. Consider how similar questions being asked in this thread could be (and were) asked of say, Walt Whitman, or perhaps even further (and more extremely) e.e. cummings or William Carlos Williams.

Simply put, is metal an ideal? Or is it instead a check list of parameters that must be thoroughly checked and rechecked.

Haha,
Frankly, this question has been posed in many forms here on these boards since I first got here.....
Don't be derivative. Explore...