#1
I recently got a used Schecter Damien FR from Guitar Center. I set up the Floyd rose and everything. (action is right, saddles are tight, nut seems fine). Im 99% sure its set up right. It holds pitch great, but when i wammy up or down it goes out of tune! The knife edges are a little bit worn but i dont think they are bad enough to be causing the problem, but I dont know. I lubed them and even filed them lightly. Im aware that it is a Floyd Rose special, not a Original so its not as good. But id expect it to at least stay in tune you know? Im considering just buying a new Floyd (special, cant afford a original right now). Any ideas about how i can fix this one? Any help is appreciated.
#2
After you tune it up, go to town with the whammy bar. Divebombs, pull-ups, etc. Then retune, wash rinse and repeat. It'll settle out finally and you'll be good to go
Endorsed by Dean Guitars 07-10
2003 Gibson Flying V w/ Moon Inlay
2006 Fender All-American Partscaster
SVK ELP-C500 Custom

1964 Fender Vibro Champ
1989 Peavey VTM60

[thread="1166208"]Gibsons Historic Designs[/thread]
#3
The knife edges could be worn. The Special on the LTD M-200 I had eventually wore out. I don't recommend Specials anymore (warn against them, actually). On paper they should hold up. In practice, they do not.

In my experience, and what I have read of other people's experiences, I believe that the Special is actually a much worse trem than what is commonly believed, around here anyway.

I haven't owned an OFR yet to directly compare them, but I do own an Ibanez Edge and ZR.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#4
Ok so I tried 'going to town' and it still goes very sharp when i wammy up. down it seems to stay in tune. What else could be causing this? What should I do?
#5
Push down after pushing up. Problem solved. Trems are notorious for not holding a tune. Sometimes a cheap trem will work fine and a good one won't. When you buy a guitar with a trem you really need to test it first and then decide whether to take a chance or tolerate it's ability to stay in tune.

Perhaps loosening the springs so the bridge rides higher will give the strings more leverage to pull it back. That will raise the action so you will have to compensate by lowering the bridge.
#6
Quote by fly135
Push down after pushing up. Problem solved.


I was hoping there was a way I wouldn't have to do that. Shouldn't it work both ways? If I get a new floyd (special) will it do the same thing? Do most or alot people with a floyd have to push down after pulling up?

In case you can't tell I'm new to Tremelos.
Last edited by sikorad15 at Feb 5, 2014,
#7
Sometimes loose neck bolts can cause a lot of problems, I've noticed that particularly on RG350's with the Edge Pro II's. I've had pretty good luck with the FR Special, I've actually got a SVK loaded with one in my hands right now that I set up for Drop C.

I'm not really sure what to say. After I restring one and stretch the strings I whammy the shit outta it and retune. Whammy again for bit and retune. Etc, etc. Finally they'll stabilize out (within reason... about 20 cents) and you can then lock the nut and fine tune to get perfectly in tune. I learned that mindset from working on Jaguar and Mustang trems... talk about a finicky tremolo
Endorsed by Dean Guitars 07-10
2003 Gibson Flying V w/ Moon Inlay
2006 Fender All-American Partscaster
SVK ELP-C500 Custom

1964 Fender Vibro Champ
1989 Peavey VTM60

[thread="1166208"]Gibsons Historic Designs[/thread]
#8
Quote by sikorad15
I was hoping there was a way I wouldn't have to do that. Shouldn't it work both ways? If I get a new floyd (special) will it do the same thing? Do most or alot people with a floyd have to push down after pulling up?

In case you can't tell I'm new to Tremelos.


The problem is the Special is cheap. A good trem will return to 0.

The FRT-1000 and the OFR are both direct replacements for the Special.

That said, do bear in mind what Flux'D said.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#9
Thx for everyones help. I think Ill just return the guitar and eventually get a nicer one with a better tremelo. Maybe a OFR or 1000 Series. I sick of messing with the Special and the guitar is not worth putting a original on or even really spending $100 on a special.
#10
If you an return it, then the store might actually set it up for you so it works correctly.
#11
Thats just it! It is set up right! I am really good with guitars. Everything is set up (most of the stuff was when i bought it, cuz it was used). The bridge is perfectly strait with the body, the bridge hight is right, the intonation is perfect (unlike when i first got it), the neck is on tight (i checked), and the FR is lubed. I think its just a cheap FR on a OK guitar. I'd rather just wait and get one that works, than piss around and put money into the piece of junk i have.
#13
Quote by sikorad15
I think its just a cheap FR on a OK guitar. I'd rather just wait and get one that works, than piss around and put money into the piece of junk i have.


Until you figure out what causes this problem, you'll run into the same problem on an expensive FR and STILL not know what to do. An FR isn't a complicated piece of gear and there are only so many things that can cause problems, and these can be completely unrelated to how cheap or expensive it was in the first place. I've got a very cheap licensed Floyd that's at least 22 years old that's doing just fine -- does gorgeous flutters, the whole shot.

Pulling up on the whammy makes everything go sharp? If it's staying sharp, then it's not returning all the way. If there were notes that were flatter, then the saddles or the locking nut wouldn't be holding the string properly. There are a number of things that could be causing it to stay sharp and most of them involve the Floyd or the springs themselves catching on something, including the cover plate, something in the rout (either top or bottom) or it's snagging on the knife edges (I assume you know what you're doing when you filed them, but that's not always the case...). Pull the cover plate and see if it still happens, and watch the action of the springs. Sometimes the cover plates that are inset into the guitar cause problems. Sometimes the spring ends move around on the claws or on the Floyd's block itself, particularly if they're too long (and/or the claw isn't screwed in far enough). If they go completely slack and then re-orient themselves, you've discovered the problem.

If you've (or someone else) filed the knife edges such that the SIDES of the "U" on one or the other of them catch on the posts, then you should be able to spot that as well. Not the first time I've seen that one.

Look at this as a challenge in problem solving. If the strings are truly going sharp, then the Floyd isn't returning all the way after a pullup. Only so many things it can be.
#14
Do you have the bridge height/action setup level on both sides? If it's not then it can cause tuning stability issues. Everyone's always worried about getting Floyd's setup nice and balanced, and that's all they seem to focus on. Lot's of people seem to completely overlook the fact that they also need to be set up the same height on both sides. This way the knife edges are actually siting level in the grooves of the studs the Floyd pivots on.
#15
Yes, every string goes sharp its not the saddles. Yes i know what i was doing filing. I have played with the back open, same problem. As i said before. Everything is set right. Ive done alot of research. Other than the knife edges or that its a piece of crap i cant figure out whats wrong with it. Im just taking it back its also missing the bar (ive been using a screwdriver [dont anyone dare say the screwdriver is whats wrong, its not]).
#16
Quote by sikorad15
Yes, every string goes sharp its not the saddles. Yes i know what i was doing filing. I have played with the back open, same problem. As i said before. Everything is set right. Ive done alot of research. Other than the knife edges or that its a piece of crap i cant figure out whats wrong with it. Im just taking it back its also missing the bar (ive been using a screwdriver [dont anyone dare say the screwdriver is whats wrong, its not]).


r u srs
ayy lmao
#17
A screwdriver for a trem bar , that's a first for me

Take it back and see what they say, although I don't see how something that new is going to have worn knife edges or cause that significant of problems. The "cheapness" of them isn't really a massive deal either, FR Specials are pretty alright trems . Do you have much experience with Floyd-style trems?
Endorsed by Dean Guitars 07-10
2003 Gibson Flying V w/ Moon Inlay
2006 Fender All-American Partscaster
SVK ELP-C500 Custom

1964 Fender Vibro Champ
1989 Peavey VTM60

[thread="1166208"]Gibsons Historic Designs[/thread]
#18
Quote by sikorad15
Yes, every string goes sharp its not the saddles. Yes i know what i was doing filing. I have played with the back open, same problem. As i said before. Everything is set right. Ive done alot of research. Other than the knife edges or that its a piece of crap i cant figure out whats wrong with it. Im just taking it back its also missing the bar (ive been using a screwdriver [dont anyone dare say the screwdriver is whats wrong, its not]).
Well, you did ignore a piece of advice I gave you. One reason it stays sharp is because the tension of the springs is not enough to overcome the forces against them. I suggested lowering the tension of the springs (by loosening the springs screws). That will cause the angle of the bridge to raise up so that the tension is raised and again balanced by the strings. However the raised bridge will also give the strings more leverage against the bridge, so that they will go back to normal tune. The caveat is that you will need to reduce the action by lowering the bridge.
#19
fly135:
Ok. Ill try that (with the springs).

Flux'D:
I got it used btw. Thats why the knife edges are worn its also a 06 model so its old. The guitar is not in the best condition either. When i got a used les paul (epi) it looked like it just came out of the box. This looked used.
#20
Quote by sikorad15
fly135:
Ok. Ill try that (with the springs).

Flux'D:
I got it used btw. Thats why the knife edges are worn its also a 06 model so its old. The guitar is not in the best condition either. When i got a used les paul (epi) it looked like it just came out of the box. This looked used.

They didn't have FR Specials on them back in 2006 they didn't start using them until 2010. So either someone changed it out or it's a newer model than you think. The first 2 digits on the serial # indicate the year of manufacture.

If they did change it out from the old licensed style FR's Schecter used before they switched to the FR Specials. Then the rout in the body will have a different shape and size than the trem that's on it now. The old licensed style trems they used were very different in shape and size from the FR Specials dimensions.
Last edited by Way Cool JR. at Feb 7, 2014,
#21
Yep, the FR Special wasn't available in 2006 (I think), it might be a 1000 though? Can you post pictures of it? And 2006 isn't old at all, I've got a Japanese RG470 with a Lo-TRS II (Licensed Floyd Rose) that was ABUSED... and holds tuning perfectly fine. And my Kimaxe Custom is from '88 or so loaded with a 1st gen OFR that's been around the block multiple times , she's still good to go.

You should try out a Kahler sometime, most aggravating trem I have ever used in a live setting. No matter what, you HAVE to do a subtle dive after pulling up or else it will be a hair sharp. Everytime, no exceptions. I've yet to see a Kahler that didn't do that, just the nature of the beast.
Endorsed by Dean Guitars 07-10
2003 Gibson Flying V w/ Moon Inlay
2006 Fender All-American Partscaster
SVK ELP-C500 Custom

1964 Fender Vibro Champ
1989 Peavey VTM60

[thread="1166208"]Gibsons Historic Designs[/thread]
#22
Quote by Flux'D
Yep, the FR Special wasn't available in 2006 (I think), it might be a 1000 though? Can you post pictures of it? And 2006 isn't old at all, I've got a Japanese RG470 with a Lo-TRS II (Licensed Floyd Rose) that was ABUSED... and holds tuning perfectly fine. And my Kimaxe Custom is from '88 or so loaded with a 1st gen OFR that's been around the block multiple times , she's still good to go.

You should try out a Kahler sometime, most aggravating trem I have ever used in a live setting. No matter what, you HAVE to do a subtle dive after pulling up or else it will be a hair sharp. Everytime, no exceptions. I've yet to see a Kahler that didn't do that, just the nature of the beast.


The Damien's had licensed Floyd's before they started using the FR Specials in 2010. If the conversion wasn't done properly then this could be the reason TS is having problems with it.

Here's a pic of the ones they used before. You can see they are a different size and shape. Sorry for the huge pic but you can see the trem good.
#23
Really? Well in that case its not a special. Its a licensed one. Its a 06. I checked.

I loosened the springs. Its not perfect but its much much better. Good as it will get i think.
Thanks fly135. And everyone else. Working good now.
#25
The Floyd Rose Special clearly says it's a Special and doesn't have "Licensed Under Floyd Rose Patents" on it anywhere, definitely a different trem. I don't have experience with the Schecter LFR, but I would assume it's the same one as found on the rest of the Korean instruments from the same factory at that point (Dean, BC Rich, etc)

Endorsed by Dean Guitars 07-10
2003 Gibson Flying V w/ Moon Inlay
2006 Fender All-American Partscaster
SVK ELP-C500 Custom

1964 Fender Vibro Champ
1989 Peavey VTM60

[thread="1166208"]Gibsons Historic Designs[/thread]
#26
Undue the locking nut and stretch the strings with the tuners, then detune them and put them in your normal tuning.
Quote by joshua garcia
I was incredibly drunk and only really remember writing a fanfic where ESP was getting porked by a pony.

Quote by guitar0player
I'd honestly fap to anything with a set of genitals as long as I find it aesthetically appealing.
#27
^Why would you stretch them with the tuners, when you have a built-in string stretcher.. the whammy bar itself
Endorsed by Dean Guitars 07-10
2003 Gibson Flying V w/ Moon Inlay
2006 Fender All-American Partscaster
SVK ELP-C500 Custom

1964 Fender Vibro Champ
1989 Peavey VTM60

[thread="1166208"]Gibsons Historic Designs[/thread]
#28
Quote by sikorad15
I loosened the springs. Its not perfect but its much much better. Good as it will get i think.
Thanks fly135. And everyone else. Working good now.


The higher the back of the bridge the more mechanical advantage the strings have to exert a returning force. The vertical distance between the pivot and where the strings exits the saddle is a lever. Increase that distance and the strings get more leverage.
#29
Since you are in the United States you could buy a new trem arm from Guitar Fetish for $5.49. It should fit your trem. I have bought several things from them and everything has been darn good quality for the money. They are a great company and very trusted and have fast shipping. It's best to order on a Monday then you're pretty much guaranteed to get it by the end of the week.

Link. Would work much better than a screwdriver. lol
http://www.guitarfetish.com/Floyd-Rose-Replacement-arm-Black_p_262.html
#30
Thanks I think I might get that one. Im sure it will be better. lol A screwdriver is kinda odd looking jammed into a guitar. It looks like i was fixing it and just stabbed my guitar.
#31
Quote by Flux'D


You should try out a Kahler sometime, most aggravating trem I have ever used in a live setting. No matter what, you HAVE to do a subtle dive after pulling up or else it will be a hair sharp. Everytime, no exceptions. I've yet to see a Kahler that didn't do that, just the nature of the beast.


Not properly adjusted. Mine are old, though -- all of my Kahlers date to the late '80's. I'm going to have to pull them out and give them a run just to see if I'm doing a tap on them to put them back in tune. Sometimes you develop these techniques unconsciously...