#1
For those of you not familiar with it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Child_Left_Behind_Act

What are your thoughts on NCLB?

I personally think it's pretty flawed and has had some negative consequences, but at the same time it was well-intended, and while it has failed to meet goals, schools have still improved under it. Still, the consequences are glaring. I'd like to hear the opinions of others.
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#2
I went to school pre- and post-NCLB. It sucks.


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#3
I don't know what it is but it sounds very un-american to care about the lowest performing students so it can't be that
#6
crock of shit. Forces teachers and schools to teach the test. Nobody get's left behind because nobody is fucking going anywhere.
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#7
It has good intentions but it's pretty ****ing shit
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#9
what happens if they forget you and you do get left behind what happens




#11
I, for some reason, thought this thread was going to be about this

*-)
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#12
Isn't this the thing that made some schools make their tests really easy so they'd show false signs of improvement?
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#13
Quote by Jackal58
crock of shit. Forces teachers and schools to teach the test. Nobody get's left behind because nobody is fucking going anywhere.

This is impossible because they don't know what's going to be on the tests each year. It forces them to teach to standards, which the tests are also based on. Having a certain degree of standards is important so students come out of school with a bottom-line of information and application skills.
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#14
The hell with no child left behind, you gotta check out the common core curriculum the states, the broke ones that is, that are being adopted. Itas all being fubnded by grants from big corporations. My daughters are all in this new abomination and the way they're teaching math is the most idiotic thing I've ever seen.

They dont make the kids memorize their multiplication tables. Basic multiplication and division involves a million dots, boxes and other nonsense. My sister is a teacher and the students wont do it any other way, like long divisionwhen they get further along. Its real time intensive stuff. The kids answers are " well, when I have to do big numbers later I'll just use a calculator". Wait until you see the next generation that gets turned out!! The US is going to go further behind the rest of the world.

I've looked up the heads of some of their departments and some of them dont even have degrees related to their department! Seriously bad bad bad!!!
#15
Quote by eGraham
Isn't this the thing that made some schools make their tests really easy so they'd show false signs of improvement?

Such examples of this are unintended consequences of the law. On one hand, schools shouldn't be ****ing students over by doing such a thing. On the other hand, the impact the law has on funding puts them in a tight place. And while it is asinine to take money away from a school that is already struggling, what is just as asinine is to try to cheat the system rather than actually trying to make things better.
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#16
If a child starts to fall behind it is euthanized to ensure that it does not fall too far behind.
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#17
The taechers in my area are disgusted. You dont even have to know how to "teach". Their degrees were a waste of time. Everytyhing is dictated by common core, down to the minutes spent on each topic. Kids are struggling hard especially in math.

In english instead of the classics they're reading crazy stuff. My nephew in 6th grade has to write a report on a lecture given by Steve Jobs! Since when was he a literary genius. Real pro we are the world. Deemphasizes the indidual, and emphasizes collective cooperation. Total propagandizing and brain washing.

In Ny the site is called engageny. Go there, its hard to navigate to the worksheets but if you find them you'll see what I mean. Some kids have already found out the answers are there. But those are REQUIRED to be given the teachers have little or no flexability. Seriously look at what they're teaching them you'll be baffled at first by rudimentary division and multiplication. I show my 9 yr old how we "used" to do it and shes got it down. The other stuff is confusing at first to me and I did calculus in college. I have to relearn the bizarre way they teach it just to help her with hom,ework.
#18
Quote by Jackal58
Nobody get's left behind because nobody is fucking going anywhere.

I'm going to steal this.

Schools cannot really be assessed in a similar way that a business is.
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#19
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The taechers in my area are disgusted.


By your grammar?
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#20
Quote by Gibson_SG_uzr55
This is impossible because they don't know what's going to be on the tests each year. It forces them to teach to standards, which the tests are also based on. Having a certain degree of standards is important so students come out of school with a bottom-line of information and application skills.

Bull shit.
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#21
I also went to school pre- and post- NCLB. It was a shit program and all of my teachers up until I graduated hated it.
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#22
The bill and melinda gates foundation are big contributors with grants. So is GE. The worst situation IMO. A wonderful marriage of the state to big business. A corporatocracy. Kinda like the government is now. The insurance lobby writes the Obamacare act, gee wonder who thats geared to help? And tons of other legislation thats written by other lobbys. People gotta wake up. The interest of the average citizen are no longer being served by their government, the average senators salary is $250,000 and they are all millionaires. Somethings rotten. Alot of people are making big money ruining my childrens education.
#23
I you look at the million, if not billions, of dollars spent on each of these successive programs the US' childrens scores have plummeted each one that comes along. The worst is yet to come with the common core program I promise you. And states that are broke are forced to take the program or lose schools, or worse, if they dont accept it. All due to mismanagement of their own finances.
#24
If this was an English forum I'd be more concerned with my "grammar". Very hot topic, and I'm typing like hell to spread info cause I have to put the girls to bed soon.
#25
Quote by Jackal58
Bull shit.

I love you man but you are straight up full of shit right now.
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#26
Quote by Gibson_SG_uzr55
I love you man but you are straight up full of shit right now.


It's a known fact that some year the math tests have addition and subtraction and other years they have hypothetical geometry using numerical systems based around the number 7 instead of 10.
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#27
Quote by Gibson_SG_uzr55
I love you man but you are straight up full of shit right now.

The "standards" are set by the Federal gov't.
They don't change from year to year.
Those standards are available to read at the Dept of Education's website.
The schools know what is and what is not going to appear on any "standardized" test.
The schools are given sample tests.
They teach the tests.
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#28
On top of the bad education, common core is also a data mine for those same businesses funding the program through grants. They are actually openly talking about selling information, grades, family income, and a host of other detailed information to third parties. There's more to all this than meets the eye. Do some research.
#29
I really wish schools put a larger emphasis on creative thinking and learning the basics and using them to solve situations you've never seen before.

It happens a little bit in my college, but even in college, the professor will work through a difficult problem with us and then tell us the problem will be on the test just with different wording or numbers.

I love the way my biochemistry professors taught, they taught us the basics and then showed us how to use those basics on the test to figure out things we've never seen before. The classes were tough, but it felt like I actually earned the A's I got in them.

I wish I had been taught that way throughout grade school. Being able to repeat things that I've learned for the test gives me little sense of actually having accomplished anything.
#30
Well as someone that recently finished school and went through a few years of the NCLB thing, I'd have to say it's both good and bad.

Good- It keeps a general standard for learning, have you ever walked into a class and a teacher asks you if you already know something and half the class is shaking their heads? That tends to happen less when everyone is learning the same thing. It also forces crappy teachers to put in more work, if their students fail the test they get put under scrutiny.

Bad- Literally everything ends up revolving around "the big city/state test". Is it on the test? We must over-do it until perfection. It's not on the test? No need to learn it. Teachers are also forced to work with unnecessary deadlines, as opposed to teaching at the pace of the class.
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#31
I'm less familiar with how Language Arts, Maths, and Science curricula are set up. However, as far as I know, there is no true federal curriculum, NCLB just requires states to create some form of standards and measure performance in some way. I will say that standardized testing is flawed and narrow, but it does give an idea.
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Snake?

Snake?

SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE?!


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#32
Quote by Br0c00ler
Well as someone that recently finished school and went through a few years of the NCLB thing, I'd have to say it's both good and bad.

Good- It keeps a general standard for learning, have you ever walked into a class and a teacher asks you if you already know something and half the class is shaking their heads? That tends to happen less when everyone is learning the same thing. It also forces crappy teachers to put in more work, if their students fail the test they get put under scrutiny.

Bad- Literally everything ends up revolving around "the big city/state test". Is it on the test? We must over-do it until perfection. It's not on the test? No need to learn it. Teachers are also forced to work with unnecessary deadlines, as opposed to teaching at the pace of the class.

I agree with your point of view
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#33
Quote by Jackal58
The "standards" are set by the Federal gov't.
They don't change from year to year.
Those standards are available to read at the Dept of Education's website.
The schools know what is and what is not going to appear on any "standardized" test.
The schools are given sample tests.
They teach the tests.



THIS^^^^

Also, it encourages cheating. They have so much riding on showing "improvement" that they have gone so far as to correct the answers on some of the test to insure the required progress and keep the funding.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/04/01/atlanta-test-cheating-tip-of-the-iceberg/

Article covers the Atlanta cheating scandal along with links with details to test cheating confirmed in 37 states (along with a list of 50 ways that the tests can be artificially inflated.)

Have a read Gibson_SG_uzr55
#34
Does anyone realize the inherent problem with standardized testing is that it doesn't actually affect the students' grades or whatever?
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#35
Quote by jugglingfreak
THIS^^^^

Also, it encourages cheating. They have so much riding on showing "improvement" that they have gone so far as to correct the answers on some of the test to insure the required progress and keep the funding.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/04/01/atlanta-test-cheating-tip-of-the-iceberg/

Article covers the Atlanta cheating scandal along with links with details to test cheating confirmed in 37 states (along with a list of 50 ways that the tests can be artificially inflated.)

Have a read Gibson_SG_uzr55

Don't get me wrong, I am not a proponent of NCLB. I simply support a degree of standards (and that has to be assessed in some manner). And I believe there should be accountability held to teachers and administrations. But as I did state before, it is a heavily flawed law and I think the flaws have outweighed the positives. I just feel that the positives it does have ought to be pointed out amidst all the cynicism.
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What happened to Snake?

Snake?

Snake?

SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE?!


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you can take my mouse and keyboard from my cold, slightly orange from cheetos, dead fingers


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Isis is amazing
#36
My sister is currently teaching this stuff. In theory they are trying to teach deep conceptualization of math material. No "steps", or "procedures" Sounds great right?

Many kids , she feels, are not developmentally ready for that stage of learning, especially in math The idea was to not teach to the test. You are now required to go through enough material to get all the information out to prepare for the test. They are plowing through the material in order to cover it all. One day spent on a lesson and that's it were moving on. whether or not the children understand it. They ended up doing the exact opposite of not teaching for the test. Teachers ARE teaching for the test as Jack has stated. And her colleagues who have been teaching for 20 years are more are saying they've never "taught for the test" as they are now. And link this to teacher evaluations and the heat is on. The differentiated instruction is out of the window. follow the script even if some kids cannot process the material that way. Thats what was taught for a teaching degree my sister just received 3 years ago, thats all gone.
#37
Assimilate and keep up or be a child who is "left behind". Like I said personally with my children I have first hand knowledge of this and from the teaching perspective my sister is living it. This will be a disaster. This is " Revenge Of The No Child Left Behind" debacle.
#39
Anyway, Gibson SG, thanks for bringing up the topic. Sorry I was a little boisterous about it. Its just a big issue with the kids, parents, and teachers in NY. So far I'm not impressed and seriously worried about my children's education, so you hit a nerve.

Funny, I was telling my wife, " I love UG, I get into all kinds of crazy discussions on there. There's lots of good people on that site."

One thing I gotta say is musicians are generally a passionate, heartfelt group.

Have a good night!
#40
Quote by Jackal58
crock of shit. Forces teachers and schools to teach the test. Nobody get's left behind because nobody is fucking going anywhere.

This is what happened at my school. We always had teachers talking about what they had to teach or skipping over cool stuff to cover what was going to be on the test. I didn't have to pass as many state tests but it still sucked. I was pretty young before it was implemented so I don't remember much of the before part.
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