Poll: What Should I Do?
Poll Options
View poll results: What Should I Do?
Keep the guitar and play the hell out of it
4 11%
Keep the guitar as a collector and not play it
1 3%
Sell the guitar now and buy another Gibson and Saxophone
29 81%
None of the above
2 6%
Voters: 36.
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#1
Last week I was able to grab one of these before the mad rush hit. Now due to the way the prices are skyrocketing I am afraid to play it. I would do a review on it but still undecided what I'm going to do.
My options are keep it and play the hell out of it. Or Sell it (since they are selling for over 3x what the original price was) and buy a new Gibson and also be able to pick up a nice Saxophone which I really need for our band. Maybe you guys can help me decide.
I did tune it up (only, no other adjustments) and it sounds awesome. The Dirty Finger + pickups are great for Rock and Metal.

It is the Gibson Government Series II Les Paul. If you are not familiar with it please go Google it. There is a long story behind it. Short story is the Guitar is one of only 300-400 made with the Confiscated wood that the Feds took during the raid in Nashville. The wood was given back after Gibson paid the Government off.
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#2
The demand is high right now so the prices are artificially inflated. Once the hoopala blows over the value will settle down. Granted it will probably always be worth more than the MRSP but I doubt it's going to keep skyrocketing. Either keep it and play it or sell it now. Don't hold onto it as an investment, certain guitars may increase in value but your money is better off in a mutual fund or even bonds.
#3
All the more reason to sell it before the bubble bursts- the specs on the guitar aren't exactly special, and by selling it, he'd cover another necessity while still having a similar but less notorious guitar.

(And, IMHO, probably a better looking one.)
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#4
Why have the prices skyrocketed? Seems like a regular budget Gibson and not-so-good-looking guitar overall.
#5
The price has skyrocketed because that guitar has a more interesting back-story than the Twilight Saga
#6
Quote by dannyalcatraz
All the more reason to sell it before the bubble bursts-

this.
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#7
Lol sell it and make money off it, how is that not obvious
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#8
Quote by Powersurge213
The price has skyrocketed because that guitar has a more interesting back-story than the Twilight Saga


Seriously though, at x3 the price, I would sell it.
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#9
Agree with all that's been said so far. Sell it now. Won't be worth what it is going for right now here in a couple years, heck maybe even a couple months.
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#11
Its an ugly les Paul standard with a cool back story. Unless the back story of a guitar is important to you sell it and find a better looking less Paul. I think it will likely hold its value but its unlikely to go up anytime soon.
#12
As far as buying it. I live in Nashville and the story occurred here. I was actually down the street at a Hardee's on Elm Hill Pike when they did the raid. It was a full blown assault. Supposedly was because Gibson was supporting the Tea Party and not the Democrats and they were included in being spied on by the Democrats in office. But since I am from Nashville I thought it would be a cool guitar to have with the story. Since I had no problem in buying one I didn't think there was anything about it but the next day after buying it all models were sold out and I saw where people were wanting them in forums. When it arrived was when I couldn't decide what to do. It is a bland color but far better than the series I color of the green. If the price would have stayed normal there would be no question I would keep it and use it daily. But since it is now a collectors item I figure let a collector have it.
I put it on EBAY after reading a lot of the comments on here and it sold within a couple of hours with a BUY IT NOW. I actually sold it for 3 1/2 times what I paid for it. Sorry to see it go but now I can get a mid level Gibson Les Paul and also the Sax so I guess everyone wins on this one. Thanks for the advise and suggestions guys.

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#13
I've got a new explorer govt series. Don't see why it would be "skyrocketing" Its a bare bones guitar for 999. It'll probably hold its value around 800 or so just because its rare but I don't see it "skyrocketing" anytime.

If anything I'll probably hover a bit less than the price of a used LP Studio and that is just for the novelty of it.

If some idiot is willing to pay you 1500+ for it then don't think twice. Sell it to him.
Last edited by cheesefries at Feb 11, 2014,
#15
So you bought a "special" Gibson that has a horrible finish and is exactly like every other Gibson made between 1990 and 2007. It seems way more special when you look at it that way huh
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#16
Nice for you to sell the guitar for so much money after only a few days. I honestly think the guy who bought it from you at 3,5x the price is an idiot, but who knows.
#17
Quote by JohnnyNash
As far as buying it. I live in Nashville and the story occurred here. I was actually down the street at a Hardee's on Elm Hill Pike when they did the raid. It was a full blown assault. Supposedly was because Gibson was supporting the Tea Party and not the Democrats and they were included in being spied on by the Democrats in office.


Lolwut?

They were raided because the authorities believed that they were using protected wood to make their guitars. They then used the Tea Party's right wing anti government agenda to promote their innocence and the idea that if they would have brought the wood in from another country it would be fine, but if they would have done it in the US it would have been illegal, therefore ultimately favouring foreign labour and imports over homegrown.

The Tea Party alliance om the issue was a poor choice because frankly, they're ****ing lunatics, but he has said he's not a member and doesn't support them.

Spying on Gibson? I'd love to see where you got that evidence.
#18
Quote by Mephaphil
Lolwut?

They were raided because the authorities believed that they were using protected wood to make their guitars. They then used the Tea Party's right wing anti government agenda to promote their innocence and the idea that if they would have brought the wood in from another country it would be fine, but if they would have done it in the US it would have been illegal, therefore ultimately favouring foreign labour and imports over homegrown.

The Tea Party alliance om the issue was a poor choice because frankly, they're ****ing lunatics, but he has said he's not a member and doesn't support them.

Spying on Gibson? I'd love to see where you got that evidence.

It was not because of the "tea party" but a lot had to do with the CEO being a big conservative supporter. Our govt has gone wild with making it hard on conservatives no mater what side of the line you stand on. I think both sides are the down fall of this country.
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#19
All the "Govt series" models I've seen have had some pretty bad fretboards. Paying 999 for it was still a bit much.

Seriously... what do you think the govt did with the fretboards when it was in their possession for months on end. Keep them properly humidified lol. All the ones I played seem to have some type of loose sand/dirt in the grooves.

You did good. I'll see if I can rip some dude off with my guitar now. I think the explorers were limited to a 200 production run. I'll milk that as far as it can take me


------------

Just got to thinking about it... Imagine the price craziness if Gibson made a Govt Series Les Paul Standard or Custom with the fretboard. Collectors everywhere would have to change their pants.
Last edited by cheesefries at Feb 11, 2014,
#20
Quote by Robbgnarly
It was not because of the "tea party" but a lot had to do with the CEO being a big conservative supporter. Our govt has gone wild with making it hard on conservatives no mater what side of the line you stand on. I think both sides are the down fall of this country.


The Democrats come across as pretty damn conservative to me at times.

If that's true, the irony is astounding, although without proof it's just another conspiracy theory.
#21
Quote by Mephaphil
The Democrats come across as pretty damn conservative to me at times.

If that's true, the irony is astounding, although without proof it's just another conspiracy theory.

Yeah well it has already been proven that the IRS was targeting conservative groups and it just came out that the highest of the IRS officials had knowledge of this. The USA has one of the most corrupt govt's in the world but they play it out like every thing is great over hear.

But yes the fact the ebony was raw and not finished was the issue, but Gibson was the only USA made guitar maker that had been inspected and they are a known conservative company It just seems a little convenient
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#22
Of course it's corrupt, but not as corrupt as say, Somalia.

But everyone's definitely in it for themselves, being spied on, sold, bought, lied to etc. It's just there's so many different theories for the same event that without proof or some kind of definitive evidence I don't tend to give what could easily be considered coincidence a huge amount of my time.

Out of interest, are you a conservative, Rob?
#23
Quote by Mephaphil
Of course it's corrupt, but not as corrupt as say, Somalia.

But everyone's definitely in it for themselves, being spied on, sold, bought, lied to etc. It's just there's so many different theories for the same event that without proof or some kind of definitive evidence I don't tend to give what could easily be considered coincidence a huge amount of my time.

Out of interest, are you a conservative, Rob?

You know I always thought I was conservative, but these days I'd call my self a Libertarian. I believe everyone has the right to personal happiness, but I'm not a total liberal either. I think our constitution should be the law instead of groups trying to make it "fit" their agenda.

I enlisted in the military after high school so I'm deff a patriot of my country (I hope you are the same with yours ) But both the liberals and the Conservatives have been destroying the USA the last few decades.
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#24
Sorry, mate. I'm a Socialist. I believe that the state should be responsible to those who are less fortunate than me. I don't believe in a capitalist vision that has bastardised anarcho ideals into an society set up for rich people to stay rich. I don't really find patriotism to be anything more than a tactic employed by the state to rally support in a drone like fashion.

'I'm proud to be *insert temporary man made bordered nation here* and I care for people here, but that country over there, where they're starving? They're on their own.'

I'm not saying that's you, but for a lot of people their thinly veiled compassion ends at the border. Besides, pride is a divisive, emotive emotion. It makes us look at things from certain, often unhealthy viewpoints. I try not to succumb to it in life.

You asked!
#25
Quote by Robbgnarly
So you bought a "special" Gibson that has a horrible finish and is exactly like every other Gibson made between 1990 and 2007. It seems way more special when you look at it that way huh


I ordered it online. After It came in I went to the stores to see if they were as badly finished as mine. I have to say the explorer/v IMO looks much better in tan than a les paul/sg.

Out of all my gibsons its at the bottom of the pile. Been trying to trade it for an amp head for awhile but will be unloading it soon. Saw one of the tan LPs sold for 2300 Now that is ridiculous. 2 weeks ago they were going for 999 + 10% off.
Last edited by cheesefries at Feb 11, 2014,
#26
Quote by Robbgnarly


But yes the fact the ebony was raw and not finished was the issue, but Gibson was the only USA made guitar maker that had been inspected and they are a known conservative company It just seems a little convenient

Not true.

(From Fender's IPO) "Like Gibson, Fender has been scrutinised for the wood it uses in its instruments. In June, German customs officials started an investigation into whether less than 500 Fender guitars with Brazilian rosewood fingerboards were improperly imported into Germany from March 2010 through January 2011. Fender recalled the guitars from its inventory and from stores pending the outcome of the inquiry. Fender is looking into whether the necks of the guitars may be replaced with other materials, while at the same time seeking a retroactive exemption from the import restrictions."


Gibson, Fender, Yamaha, Martin, Steinway- all manufacturers using rare materials are scrutinized at both ends of the import/export chain.

The problem was that Gibson was exceedingly stupid.

There are basically 2 ways for suppliers & manufacturers to get in trouble with USF&W (or analogous agencies in other countries):

1) First Tier: dealing in the import/export of things it is illegal to sell- basically, the parts of endangered & protected wildlife and plants. This is the gravest of offenses in most eyes, since it is linked to poaching, extinctions, murder of agents, wardens and local citizens, and even funding of terrorist organizations. These offenses can lead to big fines and serious jail time.

2) Second Tier: importing/exporting things it is legal to sell, but doing so illegally- like changing the information of the bills of lading, concealing materials in such a way as to avoid certain taxes, etc. This is more like being a tax cheat. Usually, fines & confiscations are the limit, though there may be some minor jail time thrown in.

The full spectrum of Gibson's guilt is, even after they copped a plea, unclear. However, a big part of Gibson's problem was that upper management was informed by one of their own employees that there was a problem with their materials...and management did nothing.

Part of what triggered the second raid was a report from a Gibson employee to management that they couldn't tell whether the wood was legally harvested or not because the supplier they were working with supplied both the legal and illegal markets. The industry standard in cases like this is to investigate further or stop the deal. Gibson did neither.

In 2008, an employee of Gibson participated in a trip to Madagascar, sponsored by a non-profit organization. Participants on the trip, including the Gibson employee, were told that a law passed in 2006 in Madagascar banned the harvest of ebony and the export of any ebony products that were not in finished form. They were further told by trip organizers that instrument parts, such as fingerboard blanks, would be considered unfinished and therefore illegal to export under the 2006 law. Participants also visited the facility of the exporter in Madagascar, from which Gibson’s supplier sourced its Madagascar ebony, and were informed that the wood at the facility was under seizure at that time and could not be moved.

After the Gibson employee returned from Madagascar with this information, he conveyed the information to superiors and others at Gibson. The information received by the Gibson employee during the June 2008 trip, and sent to company management by the employee and others following the June 2008 trip, was not further investigated or acted upon prior to Gibson continuing to place orders with its supplier. Gibson received four shipments of Madagascar ebony fingerboard blanks from its supplier between October 2008 and September 2009.

And ignoring the potential of there being a problem is itself indicative of some serious problems in the upper echelons of Gibson's corporate structure. With this being their second USF&W raid in just a few years, Gibson probably settled on this to have it considered to be an isolated incident of a second tier offense rather than letting the Feds dig and dig have it revealed that this was a common business practice of theirs, or that they had actually committed one or more first tier offenses.

Remember, also, that Gibson is a big American company, and at the time, the Executive Branch (of which USF&W is a part) was accused of costing Americans jobs, in a recession. It would have been incredibly stupid of them to target an American company for purely political reasons at that time.
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Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Feb 11, 2014,
#27
Quote by Mephaphil
The Democrats come across as pretty damn conservative to me at times.

If that's true, the irony is astounding, although without proof it's just another conspiracy theory.


I've actually started referring to the president as George W Obama.

Literally the exact same shit that Bush was doing, but Dems praise him. I especially loved the election, all the nimrods that said Romeny would be terrible because his healthcare plan was horrible, yet he's the one who initially drafted what would become Obamacare.

People just don't pay a lick of attention in this country.
#28
Quote by Mephaphil
Sorry, mate. I'm a Socialist. I believe that the state should be responsible to those who are less fortunate than me. I don't believe in a capitalist vision that has bastardised anarcho ideals into an society set up for rich people to stay rich. I don't really find patriotism to be anything more than a tactic employed by the state to rally support in a drone like fashion.

'I'm proud to be *insert temporary man made bordered nation here* and I care for people here, but that country over there, where they're starving? They're on their own.'

I'm not saying that's you, but for a lot of people their thinly veiled compassion ends at the border. Besides, pride is a divisive, emotive emotion. It makes us look at things from certain, often unhealthy viewpoints. I try not to succumb to it in life.

You asked!

Right on

I don't believe in socialism at all, it does not work the way everyone wants it to. The Gov't then has the control over everyone and that is not right. You should be the pilot of your own destiny not the provider of others. At least in a capitalist society you have the ability to better yourself but in a socialist/communist society your stuck.

Besides when does the gov't get things right.

The USA (although fukked up in its own way) is one of the largest contributers of global aid in the world.
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#29
Well I believe in a socialist democracy, not communism.

I'm not selfish. I understand that for a society to work I need to give up some of my efforts to enable others to have a better life.

It doesn't have to be dog eat dog, because you could be the one who gets eaten if you get ill or the system collapses on you. It may work for you but for most it doesn't and it's even harder for those in the third world. Ultimately, capitalism doesn't work, it's proven with the constant crashes and inequality.

We should have a greater say in our society and a fairer redistribution on wealth. I'm not talking China or Russia here, but democracy.
Last edited by Mephaphil at Feb 12, 2014,
#30
Opinion: I don't see the significance of the guitar, anyway, so I would sell it. Unless you actually feel like this is a guitar you would play and love to pieces, just sell it and get the money for the things you really want.
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#31
Quote by Mephaphil
Well I believe in a socialist democracy, not communism.

I'm not selfish. I understand that for a society to work I need to give up some of my efforts to enable others to have a better life.

It doesn't have to be dog eat dog, because you could be the one who gets eaten if you get ill or the system collapses on you. It may work for you but for most it doesn't and it's even harder for those in the third world. Ultimately, capitalism doesn't work, it's proven with the constant crashes and inequality.

We should have a greater say in our society and a fairer redistribution on wealth. I'm not talking China or Russia here, but democracy.

A socialist democracy is a fairytail, and never stays that way for very long at all. I could be wrong, but do you have any examples of it working for any country?
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#32
Quote by Robbgnarly
A socialist democracy is a fairytail

As is "trickle down economics".

But back on topic, Gibson as an organization really dropped the ball and thus were investigated. It's their own fault that they were raided, not some political stunt.

I didn't know they cuddled up to the Tea Party during the whole ordeal. I've actually lost respect for Gibson after learning this.
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#33
Quote by JohnnyNash
I put it on EBAY after reading a lot of the comments on here and it sold within a couple of hours with a BUY IT NOW. I actually sold it for 3 1/2 times what I paid for it. Sorry to see it go but now I can get a mid level Gibson Les Paul and also the Sax so I guess everyone wins on this one. Thanks for the advise and suggestions guys.

Congrats on the fantastic deal.

I'll be looking forward to your NGibson&saxophoneD thread.
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#34
I'm left wing based on general thoughts, but without the right wing, who is going to pay for the ideals of the left wing? Such irony..

People are split in their talents and opinions, thus having a double sided democracy is only natural.

Anyway, nice deal TS am jealous.

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#35
Quote by Robbgnarly
A socialist democracy is a fairytail, and never stays that way for very long at all. I could be wrong, but do you have any examples of it working for any country?


No, because it's never existed in the way that I believe in, but if you look to Denmark, Norway, Holland you'll see countries that don't have aggressive free market ambitions yet have high standards of livings and some of the happiest people in the world. It's a good start.

Your response is a chiché. Does capitalism work? Recession, poverty, health crisis, dependency, high child death rate, and that's just your country. What's to shout about?

Sometimes you need to look past your front door and realise that just because you're doing okay, it doesn't mean everyone else is.#

And yea, Gibson suck for doing that. I would have thought twice about my purchases had I know it.
Last edited by Mephaphil at Feb 12, 2014,
#36
Quote by Mephaphil
No, because it's never existed in the way that I believe in, but if you look to Denmark, Norway, Holland you'll see countries that don't have aggressive free market ambitions yet have high standards of livings and some of the happiest people in the world. It's a good start.

Your response is a chiché. Does capitalism work? Recession, poverty, health crisis, dependency, high child death rate, and that's just your country. What's to shout about?

Sometimes you need to look past your front door and realise that just because you're doing okay, it doesn't mean everyone else is.#

And yea, Gibson suck for doing that. I would have thought twice about my purchases had I know it.

Yeah I believe in capitalism personally. But we also come from different places and therefore have different views on this

The gov't series might gain a tad bit more value than the regular line but only time will tell. If you can make a profit I say do it.
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#38
No clue what these ^ guys are talking about, but congrats to the OP! Sounds like you had a good day.
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#39
Yeah i dont know why capitalism and socialism can't be mutually inclusive. There's always a hitch in the execution of theoretical economic models that makes the whole thing crumble like a Jenga tower. Not enough philanthropic spirit in humanity i guess.
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#40
Because capitalism relies on the poor to create wealth for the rich. You can't have a society where the poor are in complete control of their industry, which allows them all to completely raise their standard of living, and concurrently have a system of supply and demand because those people would suddenly be ridiculously poor again because they'd all have a million dollars in the bank! No one would need to work so who would work?
Last edited by Mephaphil at Feb 13, 2014,
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