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#1
I have a friend that's thinking of buying a line 6 150 spyder. It's his first amp and I was trying to find out what you guys thought of this amp before he wastes what little money he has. Any other suggestions? His budget would be comparable to the spyder he's debating on.
#2
The Spyder doesn't have the best reputation - in theory, it is one of the worse modeling amps available. Instead look at the Peavey Vypyr - this is a solid choice.
#3
No. Just no.

Follow the format in the Rules, and we can find an amp that he'll be much happier with, and prolly find a good deal on one too
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson Les Paul Traditional
Cort Explorer
Squire Standard Strat rebuilt with Fender USA parts
Squire Tele
Krank 1980
Orange Tiny Terror
Traynor YCV 50 Blue
Peavey Vypyr 75

Will fly for food. Call me Dylan
#4
I thought maybe a Roland would be good but I'm not sure what wattage would be good for practicing for him. What about the Roland 20w or 30w?
BTW, his budget is $500-$600.
Last edited by Vblue at Feb 11, 2014,
#5
Quote by Vblue
I thought maybe a Roland would be good but I'm not sure what wattage would be good for practicing for him. What about the Roland 20w or 30w?
BTW, his budget is $500-$600.


Is he practicing by himself or with friends on other instruments? If he is practicing by himself in his bedroom then the 20 watt would be fine.
#7
Cathbard, sorry I'm new too and didn't read that. He lives in Ontario, his current amp isn't working, he will be using it for practice and with his buddies. He likes Boston, Alice Cooper...Kings of Leon. Likes a lot of classic rock. He plays an Ibanez. budget 5-$600. He does not want a tube amp.
#8
I have the spider III and I actually really like it. Some of the effects need slight eq tweaking, mainly the distortions, but the preset bank is very convenient and so is the ability to save all of your settings. Don't be fooled by the line 6 hate that is out there. It is comparable to the unconditional bashing of Nickelback when there MUCH worse bands out there. I am not saying Line 6 is the same quality as Nickelback, and I'm not saying I like Nickelback, just comparing the mob-mentalities of bandwagon hate. That being said, 150 watts is probably WAY more than he needs if it's just him practicing by himself, but if he plays with a drummer, then it will be suitable. I'll probably get hate for saying what I just said, and people will say I don't know what I'm talking about, but I assure you the Line 6 amp is a solid amp and actually sounds very good. Surely as good as the peavey, neither is noticeably so much better
#9
Although you say he doesn't want a tube amp, how about a hybrid? For that money I'm thinking Peavey Vyper Tube. They have a tube power amp (out of a 6505) and an analog SS modelling preamp with built in digital effects.
It will do everything he needs and even the 60W version will keep up with a drummer no problem.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#10
May I ask why he doesn't want a tube amp? Many times the "I don't want a tube amp" train of thought is due to misconceptions.
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson Les Paul Traditional
Cort Explorer
Squire Standard Strat rebuilt with Fender USA parts
Squire Tele
Krank 1980
Orange Tiny Terror
Traynor YCV 50 Blue
Peavey Vypyr 75

Will fly for food. Call me Dylan
#11
I think he's afraid of having to "bias" it if I'm saying that correctly?
#12
Yep that's right. Biasing an amp is not a routine thing. The only time the bias needs adjusted is with a change of power tubes, and that often doesn't require rebiasing.
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson Les Paul Traditional
Cort Explorer
Squire Standard Strat rebuilt with Fender USA parts
Squire Tele
Krank 1980
Orange Tiny Terror
Traynor YCV 50 Blue
Peavey Vypyr 75

Will fly for food. Call me Dylan
#13
Quote by mikemellen94
I have the spider III and I actually really like it. Some of the effects need slight eq tweaking, mainly the distortions, but the preset bank is very convenient and so is the ability to save all of your settings. Don't be fooled by the line 6 hate that is out there. It is comparable to the unconditional bashing of Nickelback when there MUCH worse bands out there. I am not saying Line 6 is the same quality as Nickelback, and I'm not saying I like Nickelback, just comparing the mob-mentalities of bandwagon hate. That being said, 150 watts is probably WAY more than he needs if it's just him practicing by himself, but if he plays with a drummer, then it will be suitable. I'll probably get hate for saying what I just said, and people will say I don't know what I'm talking about, but I assure you the Line 6 amp is a solid amp and actually sounds very good. Surely as good as the peavey, neither is noticeably so much better


Nonsense.

Spiders are overpriced for what you get. Peavey Vypyrs are a better price/performance value.

There is no Line 6 hate, many of their products are highly regarded, just not the Spider amps.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Feb 11, 2014,
#14
It seems your friend is afraid of the rumored "extra maintenance" that comes with a tube amp. I assure you, I'm as lazy as they come, managing a modern tube amp is pretty simple, in most instances biasing isn't needed, and even with amps where it is required, it is often a matter of sound preference, not necessarily functionality.

The Spider is a pretty lousy amp, I don't like them and prefer every othe modeling amp to them, but that isn't to say others don't like them. For what your friend is playing, I would say a tube amp is probably a better bet than solid state or digital.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#15
The Vyper Tube doesn't need to be rebiased, you just chuck the new tubes in and go.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#16
Once again, this screams Peavey Classic 30 to me.
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson Les Paul Traditional
Cort Explorer
Squire Standard Strat rebuilt with Fender USA parts
Squire Tele
Krank 1980
Orange Tiny Terror
Traynor YCV 50 Blue
Peavey Vypyr 75

Will fly for food. Call me Dylan
#17
Quote by classicrocker01
Once again, this screams Peavey Classic 30 to me.


Probably not a bad pick. Hell, an AC wouldn't be bad with an overdrive.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#18
Quote by classicrocker01
Once again, this screams Peavey Classic 30 to me.
I was thinking the same thing - but he said no tube amps so I went for the next best thing. But yeah, has Classic 30 written all over it.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#19
Quote by Vblue
I have a friend that's thinking of buying a line 6 150 spyder. It's his first amp and I was trying to find out what you guys thought of this amp before he wastes what little money he has. Any other suggestions? His budget would be comparable to the spyder he's debating on.


Nothing at all wrong with a Line 6 spider amp. They were one of the first modeling amps, and they've been one of the most popular, with over a million of the suckers sold. They actually made Line 6 one of the major players in the amp world (as of April 2011, more guitar players had purchased Spider amps than any other). There's a certain amount of backlash because for a long time they've been everyone's "beginner" amp and the folks who've moved to something else will always regard them as "beginner" amps. Honestly, they're reliable and sound pretty good and will sound better than your friend will as a beginner.

They've had a lot of imitators. The Fender Mustang Series, the Peavey Vyper that's popular on this forum, the similar Vox series -- lots of modeler amps in the lower end of the price range these days, most of them thankful to Line 6 for carving out the niche.
#20
^True. However, most have them have vastly improved on the concept of the modeling amp and, in the opinion of a great many guitarists, are far superior in many ways to the Spider.

The Wright Brothers created the first airplane, and it flew, but many others soon came out with superior designs


Also, 15 and 30 watt models are a much different case from the larger ones, where much nicer amps can be had for the same money.
Gibson SG Standard
Gibson Les Paul Traditional
Cort Explorer
Squire Standard Strat rebuilt with Fender USA parts
Squire Tele
Krank 1980
Orange Tiny Terror
Traynor YCV 50 Blue
Peavey Vypyr 75

Will fly for food. Call me Dylan
#21
Quote by classicrocker01
Once again, this screams Peavey Classic 30 to me.

+1, exactly what I was going to suggest.

Tell your friend to stop bein a nab - $5-600 budget is redonkulus to spend on a piece of crap Spider. Get a Classic 30 and bask in the glory of tubes.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#22
Quote by dementiacaptain
It seems your friend is afraid of the rumored "extra maintenance" that comes with a tube amp. I assure you, I'm as lazy as they come, managing a modern tube amp is pretty simple, in most instances biasing isn't needed, and even with amps where it is required, it is often a matter of sound preference, not necessarily functionality.


I've had tube amps for decades. There are no "modern" tube amps, just ones that have been recently built. Bruce Egnater (yeah, THAT Egnater) had a two-day school in which he would have everyone spend one eight-hour day hand wiring a JTM-45 style tube amp (with Egnater mods incorporated in the design). This included people who knew nothing at all about soldering and little about amps. Lessons in soldering and lead dressing were included along the way. In that single day, you would complete the amp and it would make all the right noises. The next day was spent talking about all the ways you can modify that tube amp to make it do what you want to. It covered pretty much everything there was to do and told you why it worked the way it did, and when you left, you took your new amp and the bible on how to modify it. Bruce designed the modules that the Randall amps licensed and, of course, the entire Egnater-but-produced-in-China line that you find in GCs everywhere.

At the moment I have about 15 tube amps, with the majority in storage. But I do almost all my playing through a modeler. I like tube amps, but maintenance, fragility, weight and other factors have me mostly leaving them at home these days. Tubes themselves have no expiration date, and they can go out at any time or last forever. Transformers on the big amps have ripped out of their chassis or deformed them over time (these are called "big iron" for a reason). Working on them requires being aware of some nasty voltages that can light you up if you're not careful.

Like any guitarist, I enjoy playing guitars designed in the 50's through tube amps whose design pinnacle happened sometime in the 60's. But with a modeler, I can play absolutely quietly through headphones, feed the output directly to an arena mixer, run things into any size PA, work with recording monitors, powered speakers or anything in between. And with few exceptions, I can get the tube experience with the turn of a dial and a gizmo small enough to fit in a gig bag pocket.
#23
What's this "playing quietly" thing of which you speak?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#24
Quote by Cathbard
What's this "playing quietly" thing of which you speak?


It's what you have to do in hive living circumstances.
It may be quiet to your neighbors, but you can crank it to tinnitus-producing levels through the headphones.

Where you are, I'm guessing a 'roo usually won't put a .44 Mag round through the wall to suggest you need to turn down a bit.
Last edited by dspellman at Feb 12, 2014,
#25
Quote by dspellman
I can get the tube experience with the turn of a dial and a gizmo small enough to fit in a gig bag pocket.


Then you should have no problem with the challenge Cathbard posted a while back, of recording a modeler that can match the dynamics shown in his SIBLY clip?

http://cathbard.com/files/sibly.mp3


“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#26
I live in an apartment in a crowded city and I use tube amps at all hours. I just use a dirt pedal to control the volume. Sure, tube amps sound better when cranked but that doesn't mean you can't get good tone at TV volume.

If this guys stuck on a line 6 modelling amp and he's got $600, why not get one of those slick looking new, Bluetooth enabled line 6 amps. I can't think of the name right now.
Fender Mustang/Derfenstein DST> Boss Power Wah> Pedal Monsters Klone> Bogner Uberschall> Walrus Audio Janus> Randall RM20> Line 6 M9> Randall RM20
#27
Quote by Arby911
Then you should have no problem with the challenge Cathbard posted a while back, of recording a modeler that can match the dynamics shown in his SIBLY clip?

http://cathbard.com/files/sibly.mp3


Dunno -- what was this recorded with (guitar, amp, recording bits)?
#28
Quote by dspellman
Dunno -- what was this recorded with (guitar, amp, recording bits)?


Dunno, we can ask.

Cath?

The discussion was originally from

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31268464&postcount=102

and you'll see in there that I'm not opposed to modelers at all, but I'm not entirely sold on them...yet...either.

From what you've posted though, I'd say you've maybe got a better shot at what was challenged than the respondent in that thread did. I'm looking forward to it!

Also, PM sent.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Feb 12, 2014,
#29
Quote by Arby911
Then you should have no problem with the challenge Cathbard posted a while back, of recording a modeler that can match the dynamics shown in his SIBLY clip?

http://cathbard.com/files/sibly.mp3



I'm certain my Kemper can reproduce the dynamics in this... but we're also talking about a $2100 modeler...
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#30
Quote by MatrixClaw
I'm certain my Kemper can reproduce the dynamics in this... but we're also talking about a $2100 modeler...


I've been hoping you would get a chance to do that!

As noted, I'm not opposed to modelers, and certainly they've come a LONG way from earlier iterations, but I've yet to see a modeler meet this challenge, especially from a price/performance comparison (Which I note is NOT a component of the challenge.)

I've considered a Kemper for a good while now, and think it may be my Christmas present to myself this year...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#31
Quote by dspellman
I've had tube amps for decades. There are no "modern" tube amps, just ones that have been recently built. Bruce Egnater (yeah, THAT Egnater) had a two-day school in which he would have everyone spend one eight-hour day hand wiring a JTM-45 style tube amp (with Egnater mods incorporated in the design). This included people who knew nothing at all about soldering and little about amps. Lessons in soldering and lead dressing were included along the way. In that single day, you would complete the amp and it would make all the right noises. The next day was spent talking about all the ways you can modify that tube amp to make it do what you want to. It covered pretty much everything there was to do and told you why it worked the way it did, and when you left, you took your new amp and the bible on how to modify it. Bruce designed the modules that the Randall amps licensed and, of course, the entire Egnater-but-produced-in-China line that you find in GCs everywhere.

At the moment I have about 15 tube amps, with the majority in storage. But I do almost all my playing through a modeler. I like tube amps, but maintenance, fragility, weight and other factors have me mostly leaving them at home these days. Tubes themselves have no expiration date, and they can go out at any time or last forever. Transformers on the big amps have ripped out of their chassis or deformed them over time (these are called "big iron" for a reason). Working on them requires being aware of some nasty voltages that can light you up if you're not careful.

Like any guitarist, I enjoy playing guitars designed in the 50's through tube amps whose design pinnacle happened sometime in the 60's. But with a modeler, I can play absolutely quietly through headphones, feed the output directly to an arena mixer, run things into any size PA, work with recording monitors, powered speakers or anything in between. And with few exceptions, I can get the tube experience with the turn of a dial and a gizmo small enough to fit in a gig bag pocket.


Well after having a lesson in semantics and a questionably relevant anecdote, I think my point (current production tube amps are not very much to manage) still stands. Yes, tubes go bad, as I said, pretty easy to replace them. Yes, poking inside a tube amp can be dangerous, but odds are most people will take them to a tech, this is true with solid state/digital as well, only with the digital amps the fix isn't typically cheap, or even possible by your average joe. Your point about transformers potentially causing damage is relevant, but I feel like it isn't that common this causes a disruption of function, if it even occurs.

Look, I have no issue with digital or solid state products. I have used both extensively to their strengths. I know you like your digital amps as well (if I remember correctly, you were/are a Vetta guy? Or was it a HD147 maybe?).

The merits of different technologies aside, I think in this particular instance, a tube amp (particularly a Classic 30 or AC15) would be the most suitable.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#32
Quote by dspellman
There are no "modern" tube amps, just ones that have been recently built.


i don't agree with this. i will grant there is a particular way of presenting this opinion that gives your statement a great amount of truth, but there are other just as valid ways of looking at it that don't come to the same conclusion.

if you want to generalize amplification completely you can make the statement There is no "modern" amp designs altogether. really amps are just some kinda amplifying devices (tube or transistor) with an input and output and a number of components attached to manipulate the signal being amplified.

taking this view point there is nothing new going on with any type of amplification. the RCA handbook is the origin and everything is based on those amplifier circuits, components/specs have changed over time but the basic design is still true to the originals. sure we have some DSP now-a-days but that is signal processing and not amplification.

but i see this train of thought as being equivalent to: there are no modern car designs out there, all modern designs are based on the model T.

since many modern tube amp designs are based on past circuit it does lend your idea much credence, but i still think there are 'modern amp' designs out there. there are plenty of tube amplifiers that are not based on the JTM45 (as i am sure you know was based on the 5F6A, which in turn is based on RCA handbook designs so where do we draw the line?), for example my CEC has loads of original design in it. i find it a particularly narrow view to ignore any modern designs and claim 'there are no original designs anymore'.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Feb 12, 2014,
#33
Quote by Arby911
I've been hoping you would get a chance to do that!

As noted, I'm not opposed to modelers, and certainly they've come a LONG way from earlier iterations, but I've yet to see a modeler meet this challenge, especially from a price/performance comparison (Which I note is NOT a component of the challenge.)

I've considered a Kemper for a good while now, and think it may be my Christmas present to myself this year...

Yeah, I might have to make a clip or two... been playing a lot more lower gain stuff more recently, so I can probably cop a decent blues riff or two
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#34
Quote by dspellman
Where you are, I'm guessing a 'roo usually won't put a .44 Mag round through the wall to suggest you need to turn down a bit.

nah, they usually come over, knock on the door, and politely ask if we can turn it down.
#35
Sibly was just an Ibanez Iceman with GFS Fat Pat pups into my 18W Jack Daniels Marshall with a touch of reverb from an Alesis picoverb. You can hear a tubescreamer kick in for a short passage at the end of the intro but the rest is nothing but picking dynamics (and the reverb.) Recorded using an AKG D-3700 (essentially an SM58beta clone).

Go on Derek, do it. Money where your mouth is. Let's see if your $2000 modeller can match a small tube amp built inside a cookie tin. I'm interested to see. None of this "here it is turned up, here it is turned down" bs - proper picking dynamics.
I keep hearing people crap on about how Kempers and AxeFX's can match a tube amp for dynamics but I'm yet to see any real evidence. What I see is $2000 worth of jack shit.

And btw, I wasn't purposely trying to demonstrate the dynamics of my amp, that was a first take noodle - that's just how it came out. That sort of dynamics is just naturally how it sounds without effort.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Feb 12, 2014,
#36
Quote by dementiacaptain
Well after having a lesson in semantics and a questionably relevant anecdote, I think my point (current production tube amps are not very much to manage) still stands. Yes, tubes go bad, as I said, pretty easy to replace them. Yes, poking inside a tube amp can be dangerous, but odds are most people will take them to a tech, this is true with solid state/digital as well, only with the digital amps the fix isn't typically cheap, or even possible by your average joe. Your point about transformers potentially causing damage is relevant, but I feel like it isn't that common this causes a disruption of function, if it even occurs.

Look, I have no issue with digital or solid state products. I have used both extensively to their strengths. I know you like your digital amps as well (if I remember correctly, you were/are a Vetta guy? Or was it a HD147 maybe?).

The merits of different technologies aside, I think in this particular instance, a tube amp (particularly a Classic 30 or AC15) would be the most suitable.


We aren't actually arguing; I'm happy with tube amps *and* solid state *and* modelers. My first "amp" was a Leslie tone cabinet (so technically a tube amp) for the Hammond B3, but my second was a Vox Super Beatle.

And all my anecdotes are questionable, with relevancy low on my list of requirements for passing one on <G>.
#37
Quote by gumbilicious
i don't agree with this. i will grant there is a particular way of presenting this opinion that gives your statement a great amount of truth, but there are other just as valid ways of looking at it that don't come to the same conclusion.

but i see this train of thought as being equivalent to: there are no modern car designs out there, all modern designs are based on the model T.


Point taken. OTOH, I think that an amp tech transported from 1967 would find most current tube amps highly recognizable, both inside and outside, and their power output identical. I think that if I handed the same guy my relatively pedestrian 1500W solid state power amp he might have second thoughts. Same deal with a Model T mechanic brought forward and handed a Lambo, Ferrari FF or Buggerati.
#38
I don't think SS tech has changed as much as you think. Class D is about the only thing in power amps that he wouldn't recognise immediately and class D isn't used in guitar amps, just bass amps.
The transistors have gotten bigger but the topology is pretty much unchanged.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Feb 12, 2014,
#39
Quote by dspellman

And all my anecdotes are questionable, with relevancy low on my list of requirements for passing one on <G>.


“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#40
Quote by Cathbard
I don't think SS tech has changed as much as you think. Class D is about the only thing in power amps that he wouldn't recognise immediately

+1

i can't really think of any other type of amplification advances we have made since the 60's that you commonly find in a musician's rig.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
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