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#1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc45-ptHMxo


I find this interesting, because men grow up learning not to show weakness so these concepts are never really explored, or discussed. The last century has been dominated by battles for female rights and equality, which has overshadowed any topic of male adversity.

I don't know if the theories in this video are true or if you or I have been affected by which they speak, but I can see where they come from. Being an abnormally thin male at the end of growing, (5'9, 105 pounds), I've felt a constant desire to gain weight which I believe would be comparable to that of a women's to look thin. Although its worked out fine and in my favour in the end, I had become obsessive too the point where I ate so much food that in ended up with acid reflux that burnt my esophagus and been put in the hospital from gastrointestinal disorder. I lifted weights to the point I would faint, vomit or seriously injury myself. All of which, obviously, was counterproductive.

And I wasn't the only one, I know several male friends who all acted the same way. And these aren't even you're typical meatheads, just your regular joes, just trying to prove to the world or perhaps more accurately, themselves that they're one word. A 'man'

While women seem to jump at any opportunity to speak of how hard it is to be their gender, men are the polar opposite, with a integrated belief that to speak of hardship shows weakness. Male figures in the media are shown as well built, the same way women talk about how their image in the media has distorted their minds.

We all grew up with ripped action figures of heroes, watched shows and played games, which such characters. Were fans of athletes who turned out to be on steroids. As we grow we model ourselves in this image. Then in a two-sided sword we are criticized for what should be acceptable behaviour, and feel the need to create a stone-cold persona to avoid persecution.

Could this behaviour all come down to the way we were programmed to view our gender?
Quote by Night
wtf is a selfie? is that like, touching yourself or something?
Last edited by Wiegenlied at Feb 12, 2014,
#2
can someone vocaroo this in a soothing voice
I can't be reading all them paragraphs at this time
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#4
I couldn't motivate myself to read everything or watch the video.


I do think masculinity is almost entirely constructed. We don't have much of a list for what a woman is or isn't. We have a long list of what a man isn't. We tell boys what not to do but never provide much of an endgame. There isn't a time where you're suddenly man instead of boy, but there are many times where your manliness can be revoked or lessened.

I think it contributes to the emotional problems common to men quite a bit.
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#5
I went to see a talk that the first guy in the video, Joe Ehrmann, did on my campus because I had to write a short essay on an on-campus event, and being a football fan, a former NFL player seemed like a cool way to go. He made a ton of logical, salient points, and it's a genuine issue that deserves consideration. Interested to see how this documentary turns out; it's either going to be great, or a stupid wankfest, and I really hope it's the former.
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#6
I saw this the other day and was really, really unimpressed by it. I mean to say that it's not very ... interesting. At all. It's pretty obvious--to the point where why does it need to be talked about.

Men are encouraged to be the opposite of women, just as women are encouraged to be the opposite of men. All this exploring over the past century in the realm of what females should be like is exactly mirrored on the male side, and this is obvious and that's probably why no one feels the need to bring it up.

Yeah, it's ok for men to be emotional, or to take care of the house, or to look petite and speak femininely. Everyone knows that, but most people don't prefer it.

Just like it's ok for women to be big hairy dominant bitches, but I certainly don't prefer it.

No one that isn't old/conservative/southern/poorly educated actually think men being womanly and women being manly is a intrinsically BAD thing. It's just that most of us don't want to **** those people. And that's really what it's all about it isn't it?
Listen. I'm sorry.
#7
Quote by vilk

Men are encouraged to be the opposite of women, just as women are encouraged to be the opposite of men. All this exploring over the past century in the realm of what females should be like is exactly mirrored on the male side, and this is obvious and that's probably why no one feels the need to bring it up.

Not at all. I worked in a grade school and there's a huge effort to eliminate gender stereotypes. Every pictures of a typical male job (eg. construction worker) will have a women, and vice versa. If they say a word like policeman, or fireman, they need to say or a firewomen, every single time. Even if they said it five minutes ago. There's even a story they read to a class about how there was this girl who like typical boy stuff (clothes, truck toy, etc.) and her friend was a boy and he liked typical girl stuff and was wearing a dress and lipstick and the moral of the story was there was nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying there is, but you don't need to mention it when the kids 5. Don't sort things into genders and there won't be a problem. Now you've confused the poor kids beyond belief.
Quote by Night
wtf is a selfie? is that like, touching yourself or something?
#8
Quote by Wiegenlied

I find this interesting, because men grow up learning not to show weakness so these concepts are never really explored, or discussed. The last century has been dominated by battles for female rights and equality, which has overshadowed any topic of male adversity.

I don't know if the theories in this video are true or if you or I have been affected by which they speak, but I can see where they come from. Being an abnormally thin male at the end of growing, (5'9, 105 pounds), I've felt a constant desire to gain weight which I believe would be comparable to that of a women's to look thin. Although its worked out fine and in my favour in the end, I had become obsessive too the point where I ate so much food that in ended up with acid reflux that burnt my esophagus and been put in the hospital from gastrointestinal disorder. I lifted weights to the point I would faint, vomit or seriously injury myself. All of which, obviously, was counterproductive.

And I wasn't the only one, I know several male friends who all acted the same way. And these aren't even you're typical meatheads, just your regular joes, just trying to prove to the world or perhaps more accurately, themselves that they're one word. A 'man'

While women seem to jump at any opportunity to speak of how hard it is to be their gender, men are the polar opposite, with a integrated belief that to speak of hardship shows weakness. Male figures in the media are shown as well built, the same way women talk about how their image in the media has distorted their minds.

We all grew up with ripped action figures of heroes, watched shows and played games, which such characters. Were fans of athletes who turned out to be on steroids. As we grow we model ourselves in this image. Then in a two-sided sword we are criticized for what should be acceptable behaviour, and feel the need to create a stone-cold persona to avoid persecution.

Could this behaviour all come down to the way we were programmed to view our gender?

didn't watch it but yea that wall of text is pretty spot on

i'm pretty much in the same boat as you were but i'm too lazy to do anything about it so you get a star :star:




#9
Quote by Wiegenlied
Not at all. I worked in a grade school and there's a huge effort to eliminate gender stereotypes. Every pictures of a typical male job (eg. construction worker) will have a women, and vice versa. If they say a word like policeman, or fireman, they need to say or a firewomen, every single time. Even if they said it five minutes ago. There's even a story they read to a class about how there was this girl who like typical boy stuff (clothes, truck toy, etc.) and her friend was a boy and he liked typical girl stuff and was wearing a dress and lipstick and the moral of the story was there was nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying there is, but you don't need to mention it when the kids 5. Don't sort things into genders and there won't be a problem. Now you've confused the poor kids beyond belief.

I'm not talking about childrens books, I'm talking about society. Yeah, there might be a huge effort (operative word) to eliminate these things, but it seems pretty obvious to me that the effect is minuscule.

People like what they like anyway. Girls don't decide to play with trucks because the read it that was OK to do so--they probably just like playing with trucks. And they'll probably get teased a bit about it, too. And girls that play with dolls don't do so because theyre afraid to play with trucks.


And aside from all that, if a boy wants to play with barbies no one is going to debate that it makes him wrong or bad, but the other boys and girls are going to make fun of him, thus rendering the whole point moot.
Listen. I'm sorry.
#11
As one who fits the machismo description of a man (I'm a 6'2 190 lb football player with a defined jaw line, nice hair, and nice facial hair), who drinks fairly often, I can tell you that that concept of what a man is is very flawed.

It takes maturity to be a man, regardless of physical build, looks, or even orientation. Responsibility, knowing the consequences of actions, holding yourself accountable, holding your head high in good times and bad times, being humble, uplifting others, and even showing signs of weakness when you are truly hurt are part of being a man. It takes a lot of strength to admit that you are wrong and even hurting, and thus to me it is honorable when one does such.

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#12
I attended an all-boys high school and most of my friendships were (and still are) awesome, but ultimately superficial and shallow. I don't think I'd turn to any of them if I were depressed or in a bad place, because we don't know how to cater to that. I agree with TS in that we all have assumed our gender roles, which in our case was to just man up and take it like a man.

The friends I met at university are a little different. Sure, opening up all the time can be annoying, but it needs to be done from time to time. My friends who also attended all-boys high schools have told me that this was a common thing.
#13
Quote by Hydra150
can someone vocaroo this in a soothing voice
I can't be reading all them paragraphs at this time

http://vocaroo.com/i/s01CeeUx0Kwk
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#16
When I was little, both of my parents would call me a girl for crying (and my dad would threaten to hit me if I didn't stop). This led me to repress all my negative feelings when I was in high school and do some really stupid shit to try and feel better. I am incredibly thankful to my friends who were there for me in the end, and so goddamn bitter I was never able to reach out to my family for help.

Mexican "manly" stereotypes are even worse than American ones, I am severed from my culture because the expectations for men and women disgust me.
#17
Quote by chaoticfables
I attended an all-boys high school and most of my friendships were (and still are) awesome, but ultimately superficial and shallow. I don't think I'd turn to any of them if I were depressed or in a bad place, because we don't know how to cater to that. I agree with TS in that we all have assumed our gender roles, which in our case was to just man up and take it like a man.

The friends I met at university are a little different. Sure, opening up all the time can be annoying, but it needs to be done from time to time. My friends who also attended all-boys high schools have told me that this was a common thing.

+1 to all of this. I also went to an all boys school and I don't think I ever had a single conversation about feelings while I was there.
#18
Yeah, it's a huge issue. We're all pretty much trapped one way or another #sodep
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#19
Quote by Weaponized
When I was little, both of my parents would call me a girl for crying (and my dad would threaten to hit me if I didn't stop). This led me to repress all my negative feelings when I was in high school and do some really stupid shit to try and feel better. I am incredibly thankful to my friends who were there for me in the end, and so goddamn bitter I was never able to reach out to my family for help.

Mexican "manly" stereotypes are even worse than American ones, I am severed from my culture because the expectations for men and women disgust me.


I aint even mexican and I went through something similar.
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#21


Please don't fall for the lbtgwtfbbq/feminist agenda
Last edited by Våd Hamster at Feb 12, 2014,
#23

The people who control the media (and therefore our personal lives) are a bunch of old, heterosexual, snobby, pigheaded men, who want to shape the western world into something that they see as "normal". Men should be butch and fearless, women should be protected.

I just think that the majority of gender psychology is a bunch of bollocks, invented by these people.
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#24
Quote by chaoticfables
I attended an all-boys high school and most of my friendships were (and still are) awesome, but ultimately superficial and shallow. I don't think I'd turn to any of them if I were depressed or in a bad place, because we don't know how to cater to that. I agree with TS in that we all have assumed our gender roles, which in our case was to just man up and take it like a man.

The friends I met at university are a little different. Sure, opening up all the time can be annoying, but it needs to be done from time to time. My friends who also attended all-boys high schools have told me that this was a common thing.

I'm pretty much the exact opposite of this, but I didn't go to an all boys school so maybe that's why. My best and closest friends were/still are the ones I made in high school, and played hockey with for most of my life. The ones I've made at university I am much less "emotionally connected" with. I would far sooner turn to my best friend from high school (who I now attend university with) with a serious personal issue. We actually talk about this stuff quite often.

At the same time, there are many friendships I made in high school that were very superficial and I wouldn't care if I never spoke to them again.

As far as parental reinforcement of "manhood", the only time that I could ever think of my parents getting on my case like that is when I was 14 and registering to play football in the summer. I was having second thoughts about it and didn't want to do it, and my dad yelled at me "Don't be a damn pussy!". Looking at it now it was something that A) has obviously stuck with me, and B) I can actually appreciate now. In some situations this type of reinforcement is good, because if I hadn't gone and played that summer there are tons of other things I wouldn't have done which I loved.

This is very different from what other people are talking about though, with their fathers or parents telling them not to cry or not to show weak emotions. I have had some incredibly emotional conversations with my parents where we all have cried together, where my father cried and begged to me, and where my mother cried because she was angry and worried. There is good nurturing and then there is over-bearing, "pussification", as the great George Carlin would put it. So I agree that this type of thing is a social issue, but at the same time there is also a place for it and I can appreciate it to an extent.

I love posting George Carlin so, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sSrzwB1DVFs
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#25
Quote by Weaponized
When I was little, both of my parents would call me a girl for crying (and my dad would threaten to hit me if I didn't stop). This led me to repress all my negative feelings when I was in high school and do some really stupid shit to try and feel better. I am incredibly thankful to my friends who were there for me in the end, and so goddamn bitter I was never able to reach out to my family for help.

Mexican "manly" stereotypes are even worse than American ones, I am severed from my culture because the expectations for men and women disgust me.




I tend to cringe a bit when I come across anything vaguely MRA like..

I mean, I actually agree with a lot of points these guys make up until the point where they go: "..therefore all women are bitches and *****s"

yeah.. men get ridiculed for being emotional and that's horrible.
the thing is, blaming women for these kinds of problems is not only ****ing lunacy but also gets into pretty dangerous territory if you put it into social context i think.

EDIT: ^I LOVE Carlin
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#26
I agree, everytime i had a problem i was told to "man up" and stop being such a girl. so i stopped talking about my problems, so i started repressing feelings until i just felt dead inside. I still remember the disappointment and shame i felt when i got called a girl by parents and friends. like fvck me for having human emotions

i still have a hard time asking for any kind of help because of it, and it was the major cause of my depression, which im trying to get out of now
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#28
Quote by Weaponized
When I was little, both of my parents would call me a girl for crying (and my dad would threaten to hit me if I didn't stop). This led me to repress all my negative feelings when I was in high school and do some really stupid shit to try and feel better. I am incredibly thankful to my friends who were there for me in the end, and so goddamn bitter I was never able to reach out to my family for help.

Mexican "manly" stereotypes are even worse than American ones, I am severed from my culture because the expectations for men and women disgust me.


Eh, this might be a Hispanic thing, threatening to hit me when I was crying was a pretty common thing my mother did.
#29
Quote by VillainousLatin
Eh, this might be a Hispanic thing, threatening to hit me when I was crying was a pretty common thing my mother did.


my parents aren't hispanic
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If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#30
Alright well if the gender thing is an issue I guess we could just change "be a man" to "don't be a sissy."
#32
This is feminism
*-)
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#33
i think anyone's body issues are just as bad as anyone else's regardless of whether they are male or female or what the exact problem is or anything
cat
#34
Quote by Seref
Alright well if the gender thing is an issue I guess we could just change "be a man" to "don't be a sissy."

Way to miss the point.
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i think anyone's body issues are just as bad as anyone else's regardless of whether they are male or female or what the exact problem is or anything

What? (To be fair, I didn't watch the video so maybe that's why I don't understand this.)
#35
Quote by sickman411

What? (To be fair, I didn't watch the video so maybe that's why I don't understand this.)

i didnt watch the video either as I'm quite sleepy.
cat
#36
IDK what the hell you guys are talking about, no one i've ever met says that guys can't show emotions.
#37
I've thrown up after exercising. Means you're doing it right
___

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#39
im a pretty slender fellow (6'2'' and like 155 pounds) but im okay with it. its not like im ugly

if i wasnt okay with it, i would stop sitting around playing resident evil and go to a gym. i do walk/jog around a lot tho, but thats more because i enjoy the fresh air. height aside, cant say i fit the bill of a traditionally "manly" person but idc
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