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Glamdan
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2014
111 IQ
#1
Hi, I am 24 and I have wanted to pick up the guitar since I was 20. Due to part owning a family business I have never had the time to pick the hobby up. Now having sold it I have the spare time and money that I didn't have before. I am most interested in 80's metal and rock and roll.

Naturally the Gibson Rudolf Schenker Flying V Electric Guitar Black and White caught my eye. Here is a link with a picture of it: http://www.guitarcenter.com/Gibson-Rudolf-Schenker-Flying-V-Electric-Guitar-109280982-i3168713.gc . Other than the Gibson being a famous brand I don't know anything about pricing or playing. My main questions are is this a guitar a beginner can pick up without major difficulty and is it worth getting it? Just don't want to get a crap guitar and upgrade later if it works out. Thanks for any input
bdwfb
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2014
144 IQ
#2
I would think you'd like to pick up a guitar at the local pawn shop for $100 before laying out almost $1500 for a Flying V.
cheesefries
High Five!
Join date: Feb 2014
653 IQ
#3
Nothing wrong with a V. I remember when I bought my first guitar it was a $1300 Strat. I couldn't play a lick and made the sales guy demo it for me with the style of music I wanted to play. It's been my main for the last 16 years.

If you want a V get a V

Last edited by cheesefries at Feb 12, 2014,
chookiecookie
Just keep smiling
Join date: Jan 2011
203 IQ
#4
Quote by Glamdan
My main questions are is this a guitar a beginner can pick up without major difficulty and is it worth getting it? Just don't want to get a crap guitar and upgrade later if it works out. Thanks for any input


generally beginners don't pick up a top of the line 1500 dollar guitar.

V's are also kind of a pain to play and probably wouldn't be the best to learn on.

It's just that their shape doesn't really allow for a comfortable sitting position outside of classical and as a beginner i don't know if that'd be best for you.

If you're dead set on it though, i'm sure it's a great guitar. You're going to want to buy an amp too though. Maybe you should find a cheaper guitar + a good amp first, then buy that later on if you feel you need to upgrade a few years down the line.

Quote by cheesefries
Nothing wrong with a V. I remember when I bought my first guitar it was a $1300 Strat. I couldn't play a lick and made the sales guy demo it for me with the style of music I wanted to play. It's been my main for the last 16 years.

If you want a V get a V.


Guess there's this too.
ayy lmao
cheesefries
High Five!
Join date: Feb 2014
653 IQ
#5
Quote by chookiecookie


Guess there's this too.



lol. And your personal issue with that is? If $$$ is no issue then $$$ is no issue. If it is then yea... fit your budget.
Last edited by cheesefries at Feb 12, 2014,
SrThompson
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2009
197 IQ
#6
If you want a V worth it a million dollars and you can get it, go for it.

You won't get all the juice of the guitar 'til maybe two years later (more or less, it depends).

And almost 99,999% of the guitars players starts with a crappy guitar to then move on to a better one.
dspellman
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2012
1,110 IQ
#7
Sure, get the V. Nothing wrong with starting with a good guitar. You'll be playing it a bit differently sitting down, but that's not at all a bad thing.
Glamdan
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2014
111 IQ
#8
[QUOTE If you're dead set on it though, i'm sure it's a great guitar. You're going to want to buy an amp too though. Maybe you should find a cheaper guitar + a good amp first, then buy that later on if you feel you need to upgrade a few years down the line.

If I went the route that is being suggested with a cheap guitar what would a good amp go for assuming I would upgrade the guitar to a better one in the near future?

And again with the V I am not dead set on it just asking for suggestions. It looks like and is named after the style of music I like so I didn't know if that would make it any more or less difficult to learn since those are the type of songs I would want to play.
chookiecookie
Just keep smiling
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203 IQ
#9
Quote by Glamdan
If I went the route that is being suggested with a cheap guitar what would a good amp go for assuming I would upgrade the guitar to a better one in the near future?

And again with the V I am not dead set on it just asking for suggestions. It looks like and is named after the style of music I like so I didn't know if that would make it any more or less difficult to learn since those are the type of songs I would want to play.


well.

a good amp is pretty subjective. I wouldn't even know what to suggest to use a 1500 dollar guitar with.

something that would live up to that price point i guess. but i'm a budget 'musician' and my entire rig isn't even worth 1500 bucks.

so there's that
ayy lmao
4seven3
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2014
10 IQ
#10
Hello!

From one beginner to another, I would look at getting a body style that was more "traditional". I was looking at a BC Rich Warlock and because of the odd shape I decided against it. Im sure there are a lot of guitars that will get you the tone your after that will be more comfortable to play. There are some really nice Deans and Jacksons worth looking at.

Play and listen to everything you can before you plunk down your cash. I kinda rushed into it and already trading mine....and losing $ to boot (but getting a much nicer instrument!)

Good Luck!
T00DEEPBLUE
Boba FRETT
Join date: Oct 2010
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#11
It absolutely is an amazing guitar, it's just a bit pricey for your first guitar.

I can understand it from the perspective that a great guitar will motivate you to play more though. You're a lot luckier than I am. It took me 7 years of guitar playing before I had the cash to get my own Gibson V.

There is certainly something to be said to not spend that amount of money on the guitar right now, and to invest more in a good amp. $500 on the used market can get you a really good amp that would allow you to take advantage of the tones your guitar can put out. A piece of crap amp will always make a guitar sound crap no matter how great of a guitar you have.
Quote by 4seven3
Hello!

From one beginner to another, I would look at getting a body style that was more "traditional". I was looking at a BC Rich Warlock and because of the odd shape I decided against it. Im sure there are a lot of guitars that will get you the tone your after that will be more comfortable to play. There are some really nice Deans and Jacksons worth looking at.

> Implies that V's are not comfortable to play sitting down.


Quote by chookiecookie
V's are also kind of a pain to play and probably wouldn't be the best to learn on.

It's just that their shape doesn't really allow for a comfortable sitting position outside of classical and as a beginner i don't know if that'd be best for you.

My very first guitar was a Flying V copy and I had absolutely no problem with learning how to play on it, at least not in terms of actually holding the guitar. I didn't have any trouble with playing something like a Les Paul by holding the guitar on my right leg as opposed to my left like a classical either.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Feb 12, 2014,
hairmetalguy
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2014
223 IQ
#12
Another 80s metal lover! Sweet!

Actually, back then, guys were mostly playing superstrats. I'd suggest you get an old Kramer or Charvel, make sure its got a Floyd on it.
jpnyc
Banned
Join date: Nov 2009
1,023 IQ
#13
I wouldn’t recommend a V for a beginner. One great way to build up basic skills is to just sit on the couch watching TV, mindlessly running through warm-ups, scales, and etudes until playing becomes a subconscious act. Even advanced players do this; I even saw Herman Li mention it in a video. A V is not really conducive to long, laid-back practice sessions.

But when you need a second guitar to play standing up, **** it, get the V!
chookiecookie
Just keep smiling
Join date: Jan 2011
203 IQ
#14
Quote by cheesefries
lol. And your personal issue with that is? If $$$ is no issue then $$$ is no issue. If it is then yea... fit your budget.


I have no personal issue.

just trying to help.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE


My very first guitar was a Flying V copy and I had absolutely no problem with learning how to play on it, at least not in terms of actually holding the guitar. I didn't have any trouble with playing something like a Les Paul by holding the guitar on my right leg as opposed to my left like a classical either.


i totes knew that tho.

I'm just trying to help
ayy lmao
Dirk Gently
Exorcising my angels
Join date: Dec 2005
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#16
My advice is simple: If you want it and you can afford it, go for it. But it might be better to figure out what your overall budget is for a rig (amp and guitar). For example, if you paired that V with a Marshall MG series amp, I would beat you savagely with that guitar, sodomize you with its headstock, and then finish you off by bludgeoning you with the amp.
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chookiecookie
Just keep smiling
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#17
Quote by Dirk Gently
For example, if you paired that V with a Marshall MG series amp, I would beat you savagely with that guitar, sodomize you with its headstock, and then finish you off by bludgeoning you with the amp.


ayy lmao
mhanbury2
Registered User
Join date: Nov 2013
42 IQ
#18
Get the guitar that makes you want to pick it up and play every day. If you have the money to start off with a $1500 Gibson then go for it.
dannyalcatraz
Black Cherry Jello
Join date: Dec 2008
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#19
My first guitar was a cheap Alvarez acoustic...but my first electric guitar was a brand new Dean Time Capsule Cadillac.

If you an afford a top notch guitar, go for it. And if it is a V you want, you probably won't be happy unless you buy a V.

That all said, just be aware that there are a lot of other V guitars out there that are good, and would leave you mo money for getting a quality amp. Though, if you really don't have a $$$ issue, then you won't have to fret about finding an amp worthy of the Gibson.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!


alhaq369
It is very impotent to success a business.
Black_devils
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Join date: Aug 2013
460 IQ
#20
What the actual shit? The first guitar I learned on was a cheap $30 guitar I bought on Ebay...
KailM
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Join date: Feb 2011
5,120 IQ
#21
**Generally** speaking, the more expensive a guitar, the EASIER it is to play. So HELL YEAH, if you want a Gibson Flying V and can afford it, BUY IT.

Contrary to what some have been saying -- V-style guitars can be the MOST comfortable to play while sitting down. You just have to play in the classical position, which, coincidentally, is how most people play standing up -- and is generally better for your form altogether.

To me, playing with the neck parallel to the floor and hunched over in the "standard" sitting position is the most awful way to play guitar imaginable. It does not feel at all like it does when I stand and play, and makes my right shoulder cramp. Plus, Vs and Explorers are just the most "metal" guitars, and that fact can't be refuted.
Last edited by KailM at Feb 13, 2014,
CJGunner7
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Join date: Mar 2013
662 IQ
#22
If money's no issue then get what you want but you'll never truly appreciate it like a player who went from a $200 guitar to a V, considering you're into 80's metal, i'd go with a kramer or charvel, if you want a whammy bar then get one with a floyd rose, also check out bc rich, they have some cool stuff too but if you get a really good guitar then get a really good amp
"Music Without Emotion Is Like Food Without Flavour"
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Eric N Evans
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2014
10 IQ
#23
Quote by KailM
**Generally** speaking, the more expensive a guitar, the EASIER it is to play. So HELL YEAH, if you want a Gibson Flying V and can afford it, BUY IT.

Contrary to what some have been saying -- V-style guitars can be the MOST comfortable to play while sitting down. You just have to play in the classical position, which, coincidentally, is how most people play standing up -- and is generally better for your form altogether.

To me, playing with the neck parallel to the floor and hunched over in the "standard" sitting position is the most awful way to play guitar imaginable. It does not feel at all like it does when I stand and play, and makes my right shoulder cramp. Plus, Vs and Explorers are just the most "metal" guitars, and that fact can't be refuted.


I agree totally with the playing of a Flying V sitting down. I have a flying v and practice with it for hours sitting down and hours standing up. And with you just beginning it's all on what you get used to anyway. If you have the money and want a V get it. They have actually became my favorite guitars not simply because of looks but they have a tone you just can't get in other guitars.
BjarnedeGraaf
UG's bear
Join date: May 2012
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#24
My advice is to go to a store and try out lots of different guitars. chance is you wont like a V and end up with a Stratocaster or Les Pauls in stead.

Tell the salesman that works with you that it's your first guitar. strum some chord is you know them, but at least sit down with the guitar plugged in, see how it feels in your hands and the position that you'll have to use with a flying V. Compare that to more traditional guitars. then, ask the salesman to play the style you want to be able to play in the future with the guitars you are comparing.

Also use around $500 for an amp, and if you end up wanting a V, get one that you can get with the remaining $1000. There should be enough choice.

To me, I tried everything from a few standard Strats to some very expensive guitars. but ended up with an Epiphone G400 Goth, almost a Fender strat (I love the thinner neck of a strat over the epiphone, but I love the sound of the epiphone more), because it just felt amazing to me. I love it to death. SG's and strats are my style
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My beginner rig:

Epiphone Goth G-400 SG
Line 6 Spider IV (Don't judge me, I was young and stupid)
Stagg SW203N
Yamaha APX500
Last edited by BjarnedeGraaf at Feb 13, 2014,
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
Join date: Mar 2005
2,967 IQ
#25
as long as you don't mind about the sitting down thing, go for it

as hairmetalguy said, though, a lot of the 80s guys used superstrats. so that might be worth bearing in mind. But a v would look and sound fine for 80s metal as well, as lot of the 80s guys used vs too.
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


Glamdan
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2014
111 IQ
#27
Quote by ninjamunky85
Or you could get this guitar, lol. For a beginner though, why not?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/dean-michael-schenker-standard-electric-guitar


It looks the same. From the specs of the two it looks like a complete knock off but I wouldn't know the difference lol. Would that be the best move to buy the cheaper version and buying a more expensive amp? Then buying a better guitar after practicing? Before reading this and other threads in the last 24 hrs i didn't realize or factor in the amp was more important than the guitar. $3,000 isn't out of the question but having never played the guitar I don't really want to pay that for the combo I was looking for that to be the main budget (the $1,500)
Last edited by Glamdan at Feb 13, 2014,
kingking22
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Join date: Apr 2013
24 IQ
#28
I don't get the reasoning that a beginner should play on a shitty guitar. It makes no sense and could be detrimental to learning if the guitar can't stay in tune or feels like a plastic toy.

A beginner doesn't need a good amp either. I mean a decent amp is good enough. personally I wouldn't spend more than $1000 starting out. Up to 700 on the guitar and up to 300 for a good modelling amp which has many different presets, reverb/delay, clean/overdriven etc. This is the fastest way to get an understanding what type of gear and sound you might be interested in going for in the future and allows versatility in which song material can be learned.
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
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#30
Quote by kingking22
I don't get the reasoning that a beginner should play on a shitty guitar. It makes no sense and could be detrimental to learning if the guitar can't stay in tune or feels like a plastic toy.


Agreed. The amp is very, very important, especially as you progress and especially if you're going to be playing gigs etc., but at the start I'd rather have a good guitar.

there are some pretty nice cheap modelling amps available these days anyway which'll do the job.
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


MaaZeus
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Join date: Sep 2012
409 IQ
#31
Quote by bdwfb


Oh hell no! Starter pack guitars are worst pieces of shit imaginable. When I first picked a guitar it was a Squire starter kit several years back. Biggest reason I quit back then was lack of proper learning material but also the quality (or lack of) of the guitar effectively demotivated me from playing. Flimsy piece of crap. And the amp...


TS, what is your amp budget? If your budget only allows an expensive guitar with small practice amp you may want to rebalance your budget. 600$ guitar and another 600& on good tube combo and overdrive pedal plus supplies on top of that would make more sense. There are a lot of good V shape guitars in that price range if you look outside of Gibson or Epiphone.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
Glamdan
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2014
111 IQ
#32
Quote by MaaZeus
Oh hell no! Starter pack guitars are worst pieces of shit imaginable. When I first picked a guitar it was a Squire starter kit several years back. Biggest reason I quit back then was lack of proper learning material but also the quality (or lack of) of the guitar effectively demotivated me from playing. Flimsy piece of crap. And the amp...


TS, what is your amp budget? If your budget only allows an expensive guitar with small practice amp you may want to rebalance your budget. 600$ guitar and another 600& on good tube combo and overdrive pedal plus supplies on top of that would make more sense. There are a lot of good V shape guitars in that price range if you look outside of Gibson or Epiphone.


My ideal amp budget would be around half the guitar budget. If that is not realistic in relativity with a guitar in that price range lmk please thanks.
ninjamunky85
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2014
54 IQ
#33
Quote by kingking22
I don't get the reasoning that a beginner should play on a shitty guitar. It makes no sense and could be detrimental to learning if the guitar can't stay in tune or feels like a plastic toy.


I don't think that cheap necessarily means shitty. Sure it's not a $1500 Gibson, but with a proper set up it should at least be playable. It's likely that as a beginner wouldn't notice much difference in playabilty.

I started off on a cheap squier strat. It wasn't a piece of shit, sure it wasn't top of the line but it played fine and I learned to play many songs on it. When I was just starting out I didn't know what I wanted in a guitar. The squier was fine when I was starting out.

If the OP wants to buy a Gibson then he should buy a Gibson. I just don't think it's the best move for a beginner. I went through a few guitars before I started to learn what I really liked in a guitar. Why spend all that money when he might find out a month later that he doesn't like V guitars, or even that playing guitar isn't for him?
ninjamunky85
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2014
54 IQ
#34
Quote by Dave_Mc
Agreed. The amp is very, very important, especially as you progress and especially if you're going to be playing gigs etc., but at the start I'd rather have a good guitar.

there are some pretty nice cheap modelling amps available these days anyway which'll do the job.


So you're saying that the amp is very important, and then you recommend a cheap modelling amp?

I started out with a cheap anp and a multi-effects pedal. If I could do it all over I would start with a small tube amp in the 5-15 watt range, then add some quality pedals down the line. That will sound better than a modelling amp any day.
Last edited by ninjamunky85 at Feb 14, 2014,
MaaZeus
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2012
409 IQ
#35
Quote by Glamdan
My ideal amp budget would be around half the guitar budget. If that is not realistic in relativity with a guitar in that price range lmk please thanks.



So roughly 750$? That should nail a good tube combo or even nice head and 2x12 cab on used market. A Peavey JSX for example.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
diabolical
Registered User
Join date: Apr 2005
660 IQ
#36
I think the traditional GIbson V is awkward both sitting down and standing up. I like the Jackson RR tailfin "fix" which makes it one of the most comfortable guitars standing up, awkward as hell to play sitting down unless you're on a studio chair or have a left leg stool to do the classic position.

One of my idols, Wolf Hoffmann (Accept) played V in the 80s, now he switched to Jackson (or maybe went to ESP just recently?). I talked with him and his main gripe was the tuners and said the Vs just don't last as well on tour.
Anders Petersen
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2014
10 IQ
#37
As you have probably heard before, it would definitely be best to go to a music store and try many guitars in your budget and then make the decision. It is very important to try several guitars, because there are lot of bad guitars out there!
T00DEEPBLUE
Boba FRETT
Join date: Oct 2010
2,245 IQ
#38
Quote by ninjamunky85
Or you could get this guitar, lol. For a beginner though, why not?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/dean-michael-schenker-standard-electric-guitar

That guitar is a piece of crap. You will absolutely hate yourself for buying that over a Gibson V.

I've actually played that guitar. Well, not that Michael Schenker V, but I played a Dean Dimebolt ML which was owned by a friend, which for the most part is constructed the exact same way and out of the same quality materials, despite the body shape and graphics being very different. Horrible guitar to play and sounded really muddy. The only redeeming feature was that it stayed in tune OK, not great, but OK. But the neck was so poorly finished it literally felt like I was rubbing my hand up and down a patio deck.

For $750, you could actually buy a Gibson V used. But just be aware that you're always taking a gamble with used guitars, so if you aren't willing to get used guitars, I can understand that.
Quote by Glamdan
My ideal amp budget would be around half the guitar budget. If that is not realistic in relativity with a guitar in that price range lmk please thanks.

Yay! We actually have an amp budget!

For $750, you can get yourself a Peavey JSX, which is a great amp for achieving a bright, crunchy, in your face tone that was so popular in the 80's. Then you could buy a Harley Benton 212 with Celestion V30's. They're really good value cabinets.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Feb 14, 2014,
dannyalcatraz
Black Cherry Jello
Join date: Dec 2008
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#39
Some other V options you might consider:

I like Vs, but I don't find them comfortable to play, so I will probably will never own one. Still, were I to buy one, there are 5 I'd look at: the DBZ Cavallo, the Fernandes Vortex and V-Hawk, the US Masters VExtreme, and the Reverend Volcano.

(US Masters also make the Dräken, but I don't care for that one's aesthetics. It's still going to be a very well made guitar, though.)

Of those, the Volcano would be my most probable purchase, particularly the one with the RailHammer pickups.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!


alhaq369
It is very impotent to success a business.
diabolical
Registered User
Join date: Apr 2005
660 IQ
#40
On the Dean - even their top guitar are bad. Played one of the expensive Dime's ($1500) and it was utter crap, very bad workmanship. Michael Schenker was changing guitars almost after every song when I saw him on tour so even his can't be that good.