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Axl1399
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2012
223 IQ
#1
Hey all, new to UG

So I have a Peavey Vypyr 75 and a Dean ML XM with stock passive pickups and Paulownia wood, I play thrash metal like thrash era Metallica, Pantera, some Maiden, some Melodeath like Kalmah and some classic metal stuff like Sabbath

I wanna change pups because the stock humbuckers on my ML XM aren't that good
I've read tons of stuff here, and I've been looking at Duncan Distortions, Duncan Invaders, Duncan SH-4 Jbs, Dimarzio X2N, EMGHz, etc.

I play rhythm guitar

Thanks in advance!
T00DEEPBLUE
Boba FRETT
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#2
With a modelling amp like a Vypyr, you're not going to hear as much of a difference in tone with a pickup change as you will a tube amp. So it'll be better to invest in that instead.
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ltdguy27
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#3
Upgrade to a nice tube amp before you spend money on pickups. Changing pickups is just fine tuning your tone even further. The amp however will provide 90% of your tone. Here's a vid of duncan's "metal" pickups through a nice tube amp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryzie8mham8
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MaaZeus
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#4
Emg HZ sucks. Low output and thin sounding. If you want EMGs, go for their actives. Thats the Metallica route.
Duncan Distortion is relatively safe choice. JB is modified, brighter version of it. Dave Mustaine used to use JBs for quite a while.

Invader divides opinions. If you play Morbid Angel type stuff this is the pickup to go to but otherwise maybe not.

I love Dimarzio X2N, insane output and growl. Not the most articulate pickup out there but not muddy either if you keep them relatively far from magnets. Its insane pickup for insane sounds.

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MaaZeus
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#5
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
With a modelling amp like a Vypyr, you're not going to hear as much of a difference in tone with a pickup change as you will a tube amp. So it'll be better to invest in that instead.


Vypyr is analog. If I can hear pickup differences through digital Line 6 Pod the Vypyr will do fine I believe.

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T00DEEPBLUE
Boba FRETT
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#6
Quote by MaaZeus
Vypyr is analog. If I can hear pickup differences through digital Line 6 Pod the Vypyr will do fine I believe.



It still makes more sense to invest in a better amp than to buy new pickups. I know there will be a difference in tone between 2 guitars in a modelling amp, its just not as pronounced as with a tube amp.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Feb 13, 2014,
Axl1399
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#7
Thanks for the answers so far, but im pretty young so buying an actual tube amp like a 6505 or a Recto is pretty much impossible and the Vypyr is pretty decent for me. I want a Master of Puppets tone, like Orion for example.
MaaZeus
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#8
Quote by Axl1399
Thanks for the answers so far, but im pretty young so buying an actual tube amp like a 6505 or a Recto is pretty much impossible and the Vypyr is pretty decent for me. I want a Master of Puppets tone, like Orion for example.



Then its the EMG 81 bridge and 85 set or the EMG Het Set. Just make sure you have room for 9 volt battery in the control cavity of your guitar. Installation is also easy with the solderless kit.

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dvanhandel96
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#9
Seymour Duncan Dimebucker for the bridge and a Sh1 59er for the neck.
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T00DEEPBLUE
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#10
Quote by Axl1399
Thanks for the answers so far, but im pretty young so buying an actual tube amp like a 6505 or a Recto is pretty much impossible and the Vypyr is pretty decent for me. I want a Master of Puppets tone, like Orion for example.

You can buy a 6505+ 112 for $500 used. That isn't beyond the realms of possibility with some commitment, no?
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leony03
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#11
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
You can buy a 6505+ 112 for $500 used. That isn't beyond the realms of possibility with some commitment, no?


The 112 doesn't sound that great though unless you change the speaker and tubes.

Quote by dvanhandel96
Seymour Duncan Dimebucker for the bridge and a Sh1 59er for the neck.


If you want decent cleans, the Dimebucker is a bad choice. I've got an Invader which is less hot and the cleans aren't good at all. I got that about 4-5 years ago and since then, I've much preferred a lower output pickup and let my Pod do the work. My new PRS has got lower output pickups but the distortion tone is so much cleaner and tighter compared to that.

I would say the Seymour Duncan JB or Duncan Distortion are the best choices. Stay clear of the HZ
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#12
Neck pickup: RailHammer Chisel, Lace Alumitone Deathbucker, Tesla VR-Extreme

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T00DEEPBLUE
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#13
Quote by leony03
The 112 doesn't sound that great though unless you change the speaker and tubes.

Good luck finding a combo in that price range that doesn't need new speakers and tubes.

When you take into account the fact that you can get them used so cheap offsets the cost of modding them. Once they are modded with a new speaker, new tubes and maybe putting a tubescreamer in front of them, they sound epic. It isn't an ideal scenario (what is when anyone is on a strict budget?), but at least the amp has the potential to sound great, which is really the more important thing imo.
Regarding the furry fandom from the man himself:
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Feb 13, 2014,
leony03
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#14
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Good luck finding a combo in that price range that doesn't need new speakers and tubes.

When you take into account the fact that you can get them used so cheap offsets the cost of modding them. Once they are modded with a new speaker, new tubes and maybe putting a tubescreamer in front of them, they sound epic. It isn't an ideal scenario (what is when anyone is on a strict budget?), but at least the amp has the potential to sound great, which is really the more important thing imo.


I know, I was just saying that if he wanted it to sound decent, it will cost more than $500 But yeah as value for money along with mods, its a good deal.
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Dimarzio45
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#15
I have a Dimarzio "The Breed" in an Ibanez RG 760 and it works great for heavy stuff. Very high output.

EMG's are simply not worth the money imo.

Edit- The pickup was installed on the bridge position.
Last edited by Dimarzio45 at Feb 13, 2014,
Dimarzio45
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#16
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Good luck finding a combo in that price range that doesn't need new speakers and tubes.

When you take into account the fact that you can get them used so cheap offsets the cost of modding them. Once they are modded with a new speaker, new tubes and maybe putting a tubescreamer in front of them, they sound epic. It isn't an ideal scenario (what is when anyone is on a strict budget?), but at least the amp has the potential to sound great, which is really the more important thing imo.


I see what you're saying and agree. However, even with a somewhat decent amp, you can always tell when you have a weak, dull pickup(s).

Amp and pickup quality go hand-in-hand.
T00DEEPBLUE
Boba FRETT
Join date: Oct 2010
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#17
Of course, I'm just going with the idea of spending money on the areas of your signal that will be affected the most in terms of tone if one puts money into it. Getting a new amp will certainly have a greater impact on your tone than new pickups will.
Regarding the furry fandom from the man himself:
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Feb 13, 2014,
MaaZeus
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#18
Quote by MaaZeus
Then its the EMG 81 bridge and 85 set or the EMG Het Set. Just make sure you have room for 9 volt battery in the control cavity of your guitar. Installation is also easy with the solderless kit.



Heh, for some reason I totally forgot that you wanted PASSIVE pickups. So scratch my EMG recommendation.

On passives people that have tried SD Black Winters have been very satisfied lately. To my knowledge is basically SD Distortion on Steroids.

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cheesefries
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#19
I like the Duncan Custom, Distortion and the JB. Especially for the price. I use them in all my passive geetars for hard rock.

I also have been floored by a BareKnuckle Pickup. Not what model it was but I remember the dude said it was their version of a JB. I kind of laughed to myself and scoffing at it's "boutiqueness" before trying it out. Lets just say it was an ear opening experience.
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kingking22
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#20
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Of course, I'm just going with the idea of spending money on the areas of your signal that will be affected the most in terms of tone if one puts money into it. Getting a new amp will certainly have a greater impact on your tone than new pickups will.


Yeah but the TC asked about pickups and not about amps so why try to steer the topic in a different direction. A good amp costs five or six times more than a pair of decent pickups so there is no relation.
Axl1399
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#21
Exactly what kingking22 said, I live in Greece, I'm 15 and I just can't spend much money on this, so there really is no way I can get a tube at this point. I mean, finding a 6505 here in Greece is rare so I'd have to buy one off Ebay or Amazon which means they have to send it in the mail from the UK or somewhere far from Greece and something as heavy as a 6505 would probably cost as much as the actual amp to send here.


So basically we are between the Duncan Distortion, Seymour Duncan JB, and a Bareknuckle

Haven't heard much about Dimarzio pickups here. What about the X2N?

Thanks again
Random3
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#22
I can't speak for that model, but I know from experience that the DiMarzio Crunch Lab and LiquiFire set is incredible, whether it suits your needs is another question however but I would suggest checking them out on YouTube.

As far as the amp goes, the 6505 combo is great for the price but I wouldn't say it's a huge upgrade from the Vypyr, especially as how the Vypyr is far more versatile. It may be worth trying two identical, or at least similar, guitars with different pickups in each through your amp just so that you understand how much of a difference it will actually make. Given that the Vypyr is a modelling amp, it will likely be a much smaller difference than you are expecting,
dvanhandel96
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#23
Haven't heard much about Dimarzio pickups here. What about the X2N?

Thanks again

Didn't Chuck use those?
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cheesefries
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#24
Quote by Axl1399
Exactly what kingking22 said, I live in Greece, I'm 15 and I just can't spend much money on this, so there really is no way I can get a tube at this point. I mean, finding a 6505 here in Greece is rare so I'd have to buy one off Ebay or Amazon which means they have to send it in the mail from the UK or somewhere far from Greece and something as heavy as a 6505 would probably cost as much as the actual amp to send here.


So basically we are between the Duncan Distortion, Seymour Duncan JB, and a Bareknuckle

Haven't heard much about Dimarzio pickups here. What about the X2N?

Thanks again


Your best bet would be to YouTube those Duncans along with the Dimarzios that were recommended. They all sound excellent in their own way. The Bareknuckle versions do sound a bit better (clearer/definied) IMO but its kind of a pickup you get to tweak your sound after you have an almost complete rig and know what you are going after. Plus it costs 4 times as much as a standard duncan
You'll probably be much happier with a duncan/dimarzio and stash the extra cash away for a better amp fund.
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Velcro Man
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#25
For thrash sounds, a Dimarzio Steve's Special in the bridge would be unbeatable, it has that nice, scooped sounds I'm sure you'd like, maybe a super distortion in the neck for nice leads, though it is a bit higher output than the steve's special.

I'd avoid Seymour Duncans, they're too muddy for a lot of chugging rhythm playing. Depends on whether or not you like articulation or the notes to run together.
Last edited by Velcro Man at Feb 14, 2014,
MaaZeus
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#26
Quote by dvanhandel96
Didn't Chuck use those?



Yeah. As did Eddie Clark on Motörhead. They are insanely high output, which may be a good thing or bad thing depending on your rig. One might consider them way overkill for nowaday high gain amps but excellent to get a grind out of older high gain amps that just need that last push to extreme stuff.

Relatively flat, not shrill or bassy but still balanced on the treble side. I personally like them for Thrash and Death metal but thats about it and extreme metal (not modern ubertight djenty stuff) in general. Not exactly the most versatile pickup out there.

D-Activator X would be the modern version of this pickup, slightly toned down output and warmer sound. I have not heard that one personally though, just passing down what is said about it.

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Last edited by MaaZeus at Feb 14, 2014,
Axl1399
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#27
I don't play modern metal, just Thrash, Speed, Heavy

As far as Dimarzio Steve's Special goes, I haven't heard of them before so I'm not sure

Right now, from what I heard, the Duncan Distortion handles metal better than the JB, and the Bareknuckle is out of budget

So I'm in between Duncan Distortions and Dimarzio X2Ns.
Remember, I'm playing through a modelling amp and my guitar has Paulownia wood
Thank you all for the really quick answers
Velcro Man
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#28
Quote by Axl1399
I don't play modern metal, just Thrash, Speed, Heavy

As far as Dimarzio Steve's Special goes, I haven't heard of them before so I'm not sure

Right now, from what I heard, the Duncan Distortion handles metal better than the JB, and the Bareknuckle is out of budget

So I'm in between Duncan Distortions and Dimarzio X2Ns.
Remember, I'm playing through a modelling amp and my guitar has Paulownia wood
Thank you all for the really quick answers


Check out sound samples on their website and youtube, if you use a distortion, you will be highly disappointed. Duncans are good for death and some black metal, but thrash requires high articulation in the rhythm playing, your chugs have to sound clear and defined, rhythm playing on Duncans sounds like all the notes run together. Idk about X2Ns, they basically do one sound and that's about it, bit too high gain and noisy for thrash and speed metal.

Clarity and definition are what you need to look for, Dimarzio does it muuuuch better than any Duncan on the market. You could also consider EMGs, they're great for clarity in metal, though, clean it up and it sounds compressed as all hell. D-activators aren't a bad choice either.
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#29
Quote by Velcro Man
if you use a distortion, you will be highly disappointed. Duncans are good for death and some black metal, but thrash requires high articulation in the rhythm playing, your chugs have to sound clear and defined, rhythm playing on Duncans sounds like all the notes run together.


wut? Seymour Duncan doesn't have much interest in that chugga chugga market but at least he is trying. Sounds good to me.

http://youtu.be/5f1V3MHfFxo
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Last edited by cheesefries at Feb 14, 2014,
Blackfire.
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#31
I use SD Black Winters in one of my axes and it's great for thrash/death/black if that's what you want to play. I use an ENGL tube amp, but with your modeling amp it won't matter that much on pickup selection. Probably most of the recommended pickups on this thread will work with your amp the same way.
[..BLACKFIRE..]
cheesefries
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#32
Quote by Velcro Man
It just sounds way too muddy and warm for speed/thrash metal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCJ3-zYN_MM

Good example, 8 string, but only comparison i see lol


to be honest with you I think they both sound like pure absolute shit and I don't play that stuff anyway. So my recommendations are probably not helpful

pickups for "well definined chugging" lol. I'll leave that to the Chugsperts
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Last edited by cheesefries at Feb 14, 2014,
ethan_hanus
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#33
Quote by MaaZeus
Emg HZ sucks. Low output and thin sounding. If you want EMGs, go for their actives. Thats the Metallica route.
Duncan Distortion is relatively safe choice. JB is modified, brighter version of it. Dave Mustaine used to use JBs for quite a while.

Invader divides opinions. If you play Morbid Angel type stuff this is the pickup to go to but otherwise maybe not.

I love Dimarzio X2N, insane output and growl. Not the most articulate pickup out there but not muddy either if you keep them relatively far from magnets. Its insane pickup for insane sounds.


The HZ's except the SRO OC1 sound like crap. I've played with this pickup before on a terrible condition AXL mayhem and it was a magnificent pickup. And I'm comparing this to a Bareknuckle Painkiller, BKP Trilogy Suites, and even EMG 81's, all of which went through the same guitar(my Squier) and amp(Valveking) at one point.

If you don't wanna go the active route, get the EMG SRO OC1 set, or if you want some awesome quality expensive pickups, Bareknuckle Nailbombs or Aftermaths are right up your alley.
Velcro Man
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#34
Quote by cheesefries
to be honest with you I think they both sound like pure absolute shit and I don't play that stuff anyway. So my recommendations are probably not helpful

pickups for "well definined chugging" lol. I'll leave that to the Chugsperts


Well, the d-activator isn't my favorite dimarzio, but it was more defined. If you don't like metal, you will probably hate the tone of stuff like the d-activator or nazgul. But yeah, if you don't like this style...why did you comment, just to imply it's somehow inferior to whatever you like? Completely counterproductive for the OP, they want thrash and speed, regardless of whether or not WE like it is irrelevant, we either try to help them or just move on.
Axl1399
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#35
Im this close to buying a Duncan Distortion..
MaaZeus
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#36
Quote by ethan_hanus
The HZ's except the SRO OC1 sound like crap. I've played with this pickup before on a terrible condition AXL mayhem and it was a magnificent pickup. And I'm comparing this to a Bareknuckle Painkiller, BKP Trilogy Suites, and even EMG 81's, all of which went through the same guitar(my Squier) and amp(Valveking) at one point.

If you don't wanna go the active route, get the EMG SRO OC1 set, or if you want some awesome quality expensive pickups, Bareknuckle Nailbombs or Aftermaths are right up your alley.



I have not heard anything about that HZ SRO OC1. I currently have HZ H4 and (*shudder*) HZ 7 string. HZ H4 is passable as stock pickup on low-midrange guitars but 7 string is an abomination. I swear its a scam that forces people to upgrade into EMG actives and until lately there was not any choices either too thanks to the soap bar design. I guess there is a reason why its not even listed in EMG website.

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Last edited by MaaZeus at Feb 16, 2014,
T00DEEPBLUE
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#38
I'm refusing to budge on my position for you to save up enough money to buy a new amp. Spending a lot of money on pickups seems a bit of a waste when a new amp is going to help you so much more.

Sorry, but I'm sticking with that idea. I know it will be a more expensive solution, but the effect is going to be far, far more dramatic for every penny you put into it compared to buying pickups. A set of pickups isn't going to magically turn a practice amp into a 6505 and I think you're setting yourself up for failure if you think it will.

I never said getting a new amp would be easy, I said it'll be worth it.

But then again, I do live in the UK, a place where there is a proper market for tube amps. So I suppose I should check my privilege first.
Quote by kingking22
Yeah but the TC asked about pickups and not about amps so why try to steer the topic in a different direction. A good amp costs five or six times more than a pair of decent pickups so there is no relation.

The topic is ultimately to improve TS' sound, so I don't see how what I'm saying is moving away from that aim. and I don't see how there isn't a relation because I don't see spending £500 on a new amp that'll make a big difference vs spending £200 on a new set of pickups that'll make a relatively minor difference as being all that unreasonable a comparison imo.
Quote by Random3

As far as the amp goes, the 6505 combo is great for the price but I wouldn't say it's a huge upgrade from the Vypyr, especially as how the Vypyr is far more versatile.

I'd rather have a couple of really good tones than hundreds of tones and gimmicky effects on a Vypyr that I'm never going to use. But whatever floats peoples boats.

That isn't to say the Vypyr is a bad amp though. It's good for what it is. I'd just rather have an amp that does the job better, even at the cost of several features to get there.
Regarding the furry fandom from the man himself:
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Feb 17, 2014,
Axl1399
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#39
I'm investing no more than 100 euros on pups. I'm not going to buy a 6505 until much later because I'm in no position to do this.
I'm asking for pups, not a new amp. So, should I buy a Duncan Distortion or not?