#1
Hi

I have managed to tab out the modes in a symmetric pattern , 4 note per string but I can't seem to figure out Lydian, any ideas?

Here is the page so far, it's done except for where it says lydian.

C Ionian
8-10-12-13
-------------10-12-14-15
---------------------------10-12-14-15
-----------------------------------------12-14-16-17
-------------------------------------------------------13-15-17-18
---------------------------------------------------------------------15-17-19-20

D Dorian
10-12-13-15
--------------12-14-15-17
----------------------------12-14-15-17
------------------------------------------14-16-17-19
--------------------------------------------------------15-17-18-20
----------------------------------------------------------------------17-19-20-22

E Phrygian
12-13-15-17
--------------14-15-17-19
-----------------------------14-15-17-19
--------------------------------------------16-17-19-21
----------------------------------------------------------17-18-20-22
-------------------------------------------------------------------------18-19-22-24

F Lydian
??-??-??-??
------------??-??-??-??
-------------------------??-??-??-??
--------------------------------------??-??-??-??
---------------------------------------------------??-??-??-??
----------------------------------------------------------------??-??-??-??

G Mixolydian
3-5-7-8
---------3-5-7-8
------------------5-7-9-10
----------------------------5-7-9-10
--------------------------------------8-10-12-13
---------------------------------------------------8-10-12-13

A Aeolian
5-7-8-10
----------5-7-8-10
--------------------7-9-10-12
-------------------------------7-9-10-12
------------------------------------------10-12-13-15
--------------------------------------------------------10-12-13-15

B Locrian
7-8-10-12
-----------7-8-10-12
----------------------9-10-12-14
-----------------------------------9-10-12-14
------------------------------------------------12-13-15-17
--------------------------------------------------------------12-13-15-17
Last edited by rocklore at Feb 13, 2014,
#2
What? Any of these is all of these.

To clarify, you've just done it in 6 different ways.
Last edited by sickman411 at Feb 13, 2014,
#3
I mean starting on the root of the mode (F) but still having it 4 note per string with the same pattern on each string like the rest do.
Last edited by rocklore at Feb 13, 2014,
#4
It's impossible. You've got one tone between the four notes you want to start with (F-G-A-B) so you're not going to be able to cover semitones.

And I reiterate my point that all of these shapes will become F Lydian in the right circumstances.
#5
Just sharpen the 4th note of the ionian to get the lydian.

I group the minors as minor. The major as maj.
The 3 will distinguish whether it's a minor or maj. Just like chord structure.
This also helps me later when learning more scales aside from modes within the
diatonic system

I can also play it in any KEY or Pitch

Try seeing it like this......1,2,3,4,5,6,7 as the Ionian or the diatonic major scale
as a reference to everything.

Lydain= 1,2,3,#4,5,7

Mixolydian= 1,2,3,4,5,6, b7


Aeolian= 1,2,b3, 4,5,b6,b7

Dorian= 1,2,b3,4,5,6,b7.........( raise the 6)
Phrygian= 1,b2,b3,4,5,b6,7....(flatten the 2)

Locrain = 1,b2,b3,4,b5,b6,b7....(flatten the 2 and 5)

Harmonic minor= 1,2,b3,4,5,b6,7 ( raise the 7th)

I forget what it's call...but I play this from time to time and mix it up.
I grounp the notes as such to charm belly dancers.hahaha
1,b2,......3,4.....5,b6,.......7,(8)
it sounds totally cool when I use the b2 as ghost root....then play the lydain mode.
After I get done with that...I simply go a 1 1/2 tone down from the -2 ( which is the -7 of the orgianal scale) it's a minor 3rd interval. It's easier on the ear.
Then I simply resolve it back to the original Root.
Then off i go in a harmonic minor or whaever.

I also learnd scales/modes from the root note. It helps to hear the sound of the scale
better. Plus if Im mixing scales...I need to know where the root notes or arppegios are at
so I dont get lost, even if i dont play the root note or some of the notes.

anyways F lydian........In bar chord position then a kind of differnt way in open chord posistion.
The arpegios natraully sound more because it's being use as a hook piont.
When I desend in pitch....
I do this so i can pretty much play whatever the heck scale anywhere on the neck.
I tap too...so there's lots of single sings intervals I know on whatever string.
When i tap..I dont tap all the notes just because they're there. I tap to get
different sounds as I would do when playing extended chords.
Im bascailly just playing extended arppegios in a legato sounds....

I must start from somewhere to put it all together.

in bar chord position playing towards the bride.
Once I get to the ocitve. I connect it going towards the bridge.

E-----------------------------------------------10--12(13)---(13)-12----------------------
B------------------------------------10-12-13--------------------------15-13--------------
G--------------------7--9(10)---12---------------------------------------------16-14-------
D-----------7--9-10---------------------------------------------------------------------17-15--
A---(8)--10---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Fmaj arpegios then F Lydian scale in open chord postions.

E-----------------5----8p-5-------------------------------------------------------------------
B--------------(6)-----------6---------------------------------5--(6)----------------------------
G----------5-------------------5----------------------4-5---7---------------------------------
D-------7-------------------------7-------------5--7--------------------------------------------
A---(8)-----------------------------(8)-----(8)----------------------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by smc818 at Feb 13, 2014,
#7
3 notes per string under TS's restrictions would only work in the major modes.

Also, TS, I forgot to tell you: your order of strings is the reverse of the conventional one. It confused me for a bit. If you're going to do something like that at least label them.
#10
---------------------------------------------------------------------7--9--11--12-----
------------------------------------------------------7-9-10-12-----------------------
---------------------------------------6--8-9--11--------------------------------------
--------------------------6-7-9-11-----------------------------------------------------
-------------6-7-9-11------------------------------------------------------------------
-5-7-9-11------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is an A Lydian scale, 4 per string.

Best,

Sean

Sean
#11
Yeah but for some reason TS wants one where the fretting pattern is the same in every string.
#12
Quote by rocklore
Hi

I have managed to tab out the modes in a symmetric pattern , 4 note per string but I can't seem to figure out Lydian, any ideas?

Here is the page so far, it's done except for where it says lydian.

C Ionian
8-10-12-13
-------------10-12-14-15
---------------------------10-12-14-15
-----------------------------------------12-14-16-17
-------------------------------------------------------13-15-17-18
---------------------------------------------------------------------15-17-19-20

D Dorian
10-12-13-15
--------------12-14-15-17
----------------------------12-14-15-17
------------------------------------------14-16-17-19
--------------------------------------------------------15-17-18-20
----------------------------------------------------------------------17-19-20-22

E Phrygian
12-13-15-17
--------------14-15-17-19
-----------------------------14-15-17-19
--------------------------------------------16-17-19-21
----------------------------------------------------------17-18-20-22
-------------------------------------------------------------------------18-19-22-24

F Lydian
??-??-??-??
------------??-??-??-??
-------------------------??-??-??-??
--------------------------------------??-??-??-??
---------------------------------------------------??-??-??-??
----------------------------------------------------------------??-??-??-??

G Mixolydian
3-5-7-8
---------3-5-7-8
------------------5-7-9-10
----------------------------5-7-9-10
--------------------------------------8-10-12-13
---------------------------------------------------8-10-12-13

A Aeolian
5-7-8-10
----------5-7-8-10
--------------------7-9-10-12
-------------------------------7-9-10-12
------------------------------------------10-12-13-15
--------------------------------------------------------10-12-13-15

B Locrian
7-8-10-12
-----------7-8-10-12
----------------------9-10-12-14
-----------------------------------9-10-12-14
------------------------------------------------12-13-15-17
--------------------------------------------------------------12-13-15-17


Why? it's not like you could actually play it that way.
#14
Thanks Sean, I looked at the example and changed it a little bit so that it's sort of symmetric

e|---------------------------------------------------------------11-12-14-16
b|-----------------------------------------------10-12-14-16
g|-----------------------------------8-9-11-13
d|----------------------7-9-11-13
a|-----------6-7-9-11
e|5-7-9-11

This should do the trick, I can play these fine and isn't too much of a stretch for me, the fingering sequence is just 1-2-3-4 but again you can slide to the other note if it is too much.

Regards, R
Last edited by rocklore at Mar 16, 2014,
#15
The phrygian is better when played against a Sus b9 or a +6. Ib any case, you are playing it correctly. The reason I say this is that I don't know what key you are playing against.
#16
The problem is that the initial post has errors in it. The TS did NOT create a symmetrical pattern that allowed any mode to be played in sequence using the same pattern/interval of four notes.

For his C Ionian, he goes:

(e string) C - D - E - F
(B string) A - B - C# - D
(G string) F - G - A - Bb
(D string) D - E - F# - G
(A string) Bb - C - D - Eb
(E string) G - A - B - C

In what Bizarro world is that C - Ionian?

The fact is, you cannot SEQUENCIALLY move through ANY scale based on a Major Mode using the SAME intervallic sequence of four notes on each string. Because the major scale fundamentally has an asymmetrical pattern (wwhwwwh). This asymmetry will impede any attempt to do what the TS is suggesting EQUALLY for EVERY mode.

Technically, if you wanted to play SEVEN notes (rather than four) on each string, you could go through all of the seven major modes playing in sequence playing the same intervallic pattern, simply because you'd be going through the entire octave six times... Hmmm... not sure a guitar has enough frets to make that possible, but that would "theoretically" be the only way to do this.

Ken
Bernie Sanders for President!
Last edited by krm27 at Feb 21, 2014,
#17
I don't want the same intervals, just the same pattern, the Lydian mode doesn't use the same pattern but is still sort of symmetric like the rest of these modes I posted.
All the above modes I posted are in C Maj.
My post has the E, A, etc strings first I'm Labeling each string in future posts.
Last edited by rocklore at Mar 17, 2014,
#18
Quote by rocklore
I don't want the same intervals, just the same pattern, the phrygian doesn't use the same pattern but is still sort of symmetric like the rest of these modes.
All the above modes I posted are in C Maj.
My post has the E, A, etc strings first I'm Labeling each string in future posts.


"I don't want to learn, I just wanna use the same pattern all the time"
#19
Quote by rocklore
I don't want the same intervals, just the same pattern, the phrygian doesn't use the same pattern but is still sort of symmetric like the rest of these modes.
All the above modes I posted are in C Maj.
My post has the E, A, etc strings first I'm Labeling each string in future posts.

Just like scales, modes are NOT patterns!

They can be arranged in patterns, but that is NOT what a mode is. So, quit worrying about patterns and learn the intervals already.
#20
I know the intervals,that part is easy but you have to learn scales in different positions obviously.
Please Don't tell me that 'I don't want to learn.'
This thread talks about a set of 1 pattern in each mode but there are many other patterns too, 3 to 4, 2 to 3 etc, those are static patterns, but can mixed up too like in the Lydian example.
Last edited by rocklore at Mar 17, 2014,
#21
Quote by rocklore
I know the intervals,that part is easy but you have to learn scales in different positions obviously.
Please Don't tell me that 'I don't want to learn.'
This thread talks about a set of 1 pattern in each mode but there are many other patterns too, 3 to 4, 2 to 3 etc, those are static patterns, but can mixed up too like in the Lydian example.



What are these patterns, and please name the notes in each number you tab out, when you do so, so that we can all see the connection.

So if you say, do A Lydian, notate the #4/#11 as D#, etc.

It may be that we don't follow your terminology, but if you want to, TAB out what youre talking about and then identify by letter name, what those notes are. Then I can better understand what you're trying to claim.

Best,

Sean
#22
why has everyone switched to A Lydian?, why not use F Lydian like the orginal post was asking for???
#23
since the modes are from C major there is no b/# notes:
ionian:
E1-2-3-4
A---------5-6-7-1
D------------------1-2-3-4
F---------------------------5-6-7-1
B------------------------------------1-2-3-4
E---------------------------------------------5-6-7-1

dorian:
E2-3-4-5
A---------6-7-1-2
D------------------2-3-4-5
F---------------------------6-7-1-2
B------------------------------------2-3-4-5
E---------------------------------------------6-7-1-2

phrygian:
E3-4-5-6
A---------7-1-2-3
D------------------3-4-5-6
G---------------------------7-1-2-3
B------------------------------------3-4-5-6
E---------------------------------------------7-1-2-3

Lydian:
E4-5-6-7
A---------7-1-2-3
D------------------4-5-6-7
G---------------------------7-1-2-3
B------------------------------------4-5-6-7
E---------------------------------------------7-1-2-3

Mixolydian:
E5-6-7-1
A---------1-2-3-4
D------------------5-6-7-1
G---------------------------1-2-3-4
B------------------------------------ 5-6-7-1
E---------------------------------------------1-2-3-4

Aolian:
E6-7-1-2
A---------2-3-4-5
D------------------6-7-1-2
G---------------------------2-3-4-5
B------------------------------------6-7-1-2
E---------------------------------------------2-3-4-5

Locrian:
E7-1-2-3
A---------3-4-5-6
D------------------7-1-2-3
G---------------------------3-4-5-6
B------------------------------------7-1-2-3
E---------------------------------------------3-4-5-6

And for example of using some b/# notes: in F major -
Eb dominant pentatonic:

E-b7
A----1-3
D--------4-b6
G-------------b7-1
B------------------3-4
E----------------------b6-b7

A Lydian is less of a stretch than F Lydian and if played over C maj would have a #1,#2,#4 and #5.
Last edited by rocklore at Mar 20, 2014,
#25
where do I put the notes in TAB, I always thought tab didn't use note names such as F and A.

#4 sounds like a degree or figured bas not a fret number, #4 would be an A on the E string.
Last edited by rocklore at Mar 20, 2014,
#26
Quote by rocklore
where do I put the notes in TAB, I always thought tab didn't use note names such as F and A.

#4 sounds like a degree or figured bas not a fret number, #4 would be an A on the E string.



OK in the first post, you have them tabbed, right? Except Lydian. You started the modes in C Ionian, built them to D Dorian etc.

I'm trying to teach/show you something, because you aren't going to observe this until you do the actual work.

Let's do this. Take 2 of your scales, which are these 4 per string patterns that you claim to have. Do an A Phrygian, and a B Lydian

(shhh you guys that see what I did....)

TAB it out, using the same patterns that you think are these notes.

Then, once you've created that TAB...

Say "On the 6 string, these are the notes X Y# Z A#" (as an example...in other words, identify the notes that you are saying are played in your TAB example)

"On the 5th string these are the notes Q R# S# T" and so on. Do it just for these two patterns. and then tell me what these notes are.

Then do the 4th, 3rd, 2nd and then 1st strings. Name the notes, I'll check your work. I think you'll learn something about your claim when you do this.

You say you want to learn? Good, you're getting ready to.

Best,

Sean
#27
A Phrygian

on the 6th string A,Bb,C,D (5-6-8-10)
on the 5th string E,F,G,A (7-8-10-12)
on the 4th string A,Bb,C,D (7-8-10-12)
on the 3rd string E,F,G,A (9-10-12-14)
on the 2nd string A,Bb,C,D (10-11-13-15)
on the 1st string E,F,G,A (12-13-15-17)

tab is in the brackets

B Lydian

on the 6th string B,Db,Eb,Fb (7-9-11-13)
on the 5th string Fb,Gb,Ab,Bb (8-9-11-13)
on the 4th string B,Db,Eb,Fb (9-11-13-15)
on the 3rd string Fb,Gb,Ab,Bb (10-11-13-15)
on the 2nd string B,Db,Eb,Fb (12-14-16-18)
on the 1st string Fb,Gb,Ab,Bb (13-14-16-18)

tab is in the brackets
#28
I guess I have absolutely no clue how you are picking which is the first of the four notes you will play on a given string.

You are sort of mapping out a scale, except you are playing A, then switching string and playing another A between 1st & 2nd and b/w 3rd & 4th and b/w 5th & 5th. But you are NOT doing that for the D? You go from D to E bw/ 2nd & 3rd, and b/w 4th & 5th... Are you trying to map out an entire octave, so you put in an A at both the top and bottom of it? Because that's kind of pointless when you are doing scales, you don't want redundancy.

Do you think the 10th fret on the 5th string is an A? Or the 1st string on the 13th fret is an Fb? Or the 13th fret on the 2nd string is a Bb?

If you want to visualize the common pattern for modes on the fretboard, here are some visuals I prepared (though optimally you should prepare your own, as that is a great learning tool):









Ken
Bernie Sanders for President!
#29
on the fretboard:
The 10th fret on the on the 5th string is a G
The 13th fret on the 1st string is an F, (not an Fb)
13th fret on the Second string is a C.

I'm not sure what all the confusion is about, the scale is 4 note per string im only repeating what is needed to make up the right notes per string.
Last edited by rocklore at Mar 20, 2014,
#30
Quote by Sean0913
Let's do this. Take 2 of your scales, which are these 4 per string patterns that you claim to have. Do an A Phrygian, and a B Lydian

(shhh you guys that see what I did....)


how does that tie into what you're discussing?
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
#31
AW@ I wanted to make sure he didn't try to connect A Phrygian to B Lydian, as if they were connected. It was my own test to see if he knew his notes and intervals.

Rocklore. Notice that the same 4 notes repeat every other string? It's simply advancing through the octaves. The shape is the same on the first 2 strings.

You did well except the interval of a full step from Eb is not Fb it's F. Again these same 4 notes alternate every other line. That's what I wanted to you catch. It's one thing to just repeat shapes, but seeing how they line up when it comes to the notes, I think adds perspective, and that's why it *can* be symmetrical, in the sense that it repeats every other line, but you still have to start the next line on the right note, and in terms of fret position that is not symmetrical, for example, the pattern on the B string is actually a fret higher, than the one that starts on the D string.

Best,

Sean
#32
Ah my bad, I thought E# was the same as Fb for some reason, yes E# is equivalent F, so a whole step I tend to use flats more than sharps.

A phrygian would be in F major
B Lydian would be in F# major / Gb major.
Last edited by rocklore at Mar 21, 2014,
#33
rocklore:

Sorry, I was confused, on your very first post, you had all the strings sort of inverted from how you would normally tab them, and so I have been reading your stuff after that as "inverted" and so I thought you were starting on 1st string, but I see you are saying you are starting on 6th, so the only error was the Fb.

If you look at my diagrams for the different modes, They illustrate visually how they all form the identical pattern on the fretboard, and they enable you to readily find patterns that you can use to run through the modes, as a scale, from low E to high e or vice versa.

It should be just as simple to find such patterns for Lydian as any other mode. Let's look back at your first post:


E Phrygian [from 6th to 1st strings]
12-13-15-17
--------------14-15-17-19
-----------------------------14-15-17-19
--------------------------------------------16-17-19-21
----------------------------------------------------------17-18-20-22
-------------------------------------------------------------------------18-19-22-24

F Lydian
??-??-??-??
------------??-??-??-??
-------------------------??-??-??-??
--------------------------------------??-??-??-??
---------------------------------------------------??-??-??-??
----------------------------------------------------------------??-??-??-??

G Mixolydian
3-5-7-8
---------3-5-7-8
------------------5-7-9-10
----------------------------5-7-9-10
--------------------------------------8-10-12-13
---------------------------------------------------8-10-12-13


I found it confusing because I was reading the top line as high e, not low E, so it was all backwards. But I see now you were putting these in string order from 6th to 1st as you'd play them moving through scale from low notes to high notes. However, sticking with this method, you can fill in the blanks as follows:

F Lydian (from 6th to 1st)
E 1-3-5-7
A ------------3-5-7-8
D -------------------------3-5-7-9
G ---------------------------------------5-7-9-10
B ---------------------------------------------------6-8-10-12
e ----------------------------------------------------------------8-10-12-13

How does this not do the exact same thing as you did in the other modes -- give you a full "octave" in each mode starting every two strings, using 4 notes per string? How is this any harder to calculate / figure than any of the other modes?

Ken
Bernie Sanders for President!
#34
Quote by krm27
rocklore:
F Lydian (from 6th to 1st)
E 1-3-5-7
A ------------3-5-7-8
D -------------------------3-5-7-9
G ---------------------------------------5-7-9-10
B ---------------------------------------------------6-8-10-12
e ----------------------------------------------------------------8-10-12-13
Ken


I didn't think of that pattern, I guess that works well too thanks,
#35
you can't actually be playing in the lydian mode until you have a fan mounted to your pedalboard to blow your hair back while you bend random notes on your double necked abalone-crusted superstrat
#36
Quote by Hail
you can't actually be playing in the lydian mode until you have a fan mounted to your pedalboard to blow your hair back while you bend random notes on your double necked abalone-crusted superstrat