#1
Hey,

I have about 500 euro's to spend on an amp. I play thrash metal, but don't really like the scooped sound, nor do i like overprocessed modern sounds. My band hasn't played live yet but I want amp I can rehearse with and start gigging with soon. I'd rather not have to buy a new amp in the next several years.
My first option was the Peavey 6505+ 112 combo, which i have played and enjoyed.
However, recently my eye fell on a used Orange Dark Terror 15W amplifier head for €310, and a Laney LX412-S Cabinter for €100. Would that be a good deal, would they work together and would it be loud enough to play over a guitarist, bassist and drummer with heavy gain?

Thanks in advance
#2
I have found that all the 15 watt Orange amps are not loud enough for playing in a band (I play punk and prog-metal). If you have monitors and rin through a PA you'll be fine, but if you have to rely on just the amp they will not work.

Have you looked at the Laney Ironheart 60watt combo
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#3
I have practiced with a Tiny Terror and it keeps up well with the other instruments. Live you will need to mic that lil' bastard but that's something you have to do with any amp on any gig if you want to get in the mix properly.

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#4
as long as you use a 16ohm's cabinet and turn the volume all the way up, a tiny terror can handle that shit live and in the practice room.
#5
Quote by ChuySmit
as long as you use a 16ohm's cabinet and turn the volume all the way up, a tiny terror can handle that shit live and in the practice room.


But there will be no clean sound.
#7
Quote by \m/TheWickerMan
I have no real interest in cleans tbh, so that won't be the problem

Trust me with the type of music you play (I assume you guys are not a "quiet" band) The 15 watt Orang amps will not work unless you mic them. I've tried and they just can't cut it in a louder band situation
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#9
my 15 watt tiny terror was more than loud enough half way up for a self proclaimed "hardcore" drummer that used an OCDP custom set and Zildjian Z Customs (loud as ****) all around. He even at one point sadly used the crash as a ride because I was being too loud. 15 watts will be more than loud enough to keep up with any drummer if you guys are within 20 feet of each other and you don't play with a sad ego volume guitarist (they are everywhere). Especially in the small bars of under 200 people most people play. Just aim it right because its a closed back 112. From local bars to a flatbed in front of Harley Davidson to a 2500+ seat theater it was fine... obviously mic'd for bigger places.

So Terror for stage volume. Throw a mic for the pa. Good to go.
Last edited by cheesefries at Feb 16, 2014,
#10
I use a 20 watt jet city in a small practice space with a very loud drummer.
I never really get the thing above 5, so I suspect you'll be just fine.
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#11
If Jeff Beck can use a 15w amp to play to an arena for merely a semi-overdriven tone then sure, you can use a 15w amp for metal. Yes you'll be totally cranking it and it will never clean up and the power valves won't last quite as long, but it will do it. Hey, KISS play stadiums with a 18w Tubemeister in their backline. And those are people who DO care about clean tones.

I've got a Tiny Terror I bought for home practice at first but I tried it with a drummer and bass and with a 2x12 it was loud enough to drown them out at 8/10 on the volume. If you put it with a 4x12 you'd get almost twice that volume. Sure it was stuck on a sort of punk/hard rock distortion and even with single coils it wouldn't clean up for shit, but if you don't care about cleans then it's fine.

Power and volume don't have all that much to do with each other. If you have more than 5w and you have four speakers then you can get to gig volume easy. The wattage really just effects how good it'll sound at that volume and how much headroom you'll have. Nobody buys a 100w amp for volume, you buy it because you need that much clean headroom.

The Dark Terror isn't what you want, though. You said you don't like the modern processed and scooped metal tone and that's what the Dark Terror is. The Jim Root Terror is a better fit. It's got just as many gain stages as the Dark Terror but the voicing is a little more like the Rockerverb and less like the Thunderverb so it's not as harsh and it has a full 3 band EQ so you can keep the mids up.

But for the same or even less money you can get the Jet City amps which with a good overdrive pedal give you a good older style metal tone, there's a Laney you can get which is basically the same as the Jim Root model but cheaper, you might be able to get a HK Tubemeister which again only needs a standard OD pedal to go to full metal, there's the new Peavey Valveking 20, a couple of 20w Blackstar heads, Randell make a 45w head in that price range and Bugera make loads of 100w+ amps in that price range though Bugera's older amplifiers have a bad reputation for melting their own insides. You could even pick up a second hand larger Valveking head or maybe a second hand Orange TH30.
Last edited by grohl1987 at Feb 16, 2014,
#12
Quote by cheesefries
my 15 watt tiny terror was more than loud enough half way up for a self proclaimed "hardcore" drummer that used an OCDP custom set and Zildjian Z Customs (loud as ****) all around. He even at one point sadly used the crash as a ride because I was being too loud. 15 watts will be more than loud enough to keep up with any drummer if you guys are within 20 feet of each other and you don't play with a sad ego volume guitarist (they are everywhere). Especially in the small bars of under 200 people most people play. Just aim it right because its a closed back 112. From local bars to a flatbed in front of Harley Davidson to a 2500+ seat theater it was fine... obviously mic'd for bigger places.

So Terror for stage volume. Throw a mic for the pa. Good to go.


I've been there and you are absolutely right, just what I said. But some guys claim the opposite, very confusing for TS...

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#13
Quote by Perverockstar69
I've been there and you are absolutely right, just what I said. But some guys claim the opposite, very confusing for TS...

I have tried the Tiny terror, dark terror, JR Terror and the OR15 in a band setting and they did not have the power to hang. they may get loud enough, but then they sound like ass and get undefined and brittle because the powertubes are being over driven. And with amps that rely on preamp gain, when you mix powertube distortion in it sounds pretty bad IMO.

Yes there are some low wattage amps that can hang, the Orange amps are not them IMO (not for styles like TS plays). The Budda SD18 will kill most amps 3x their wattage, but that is because of the design of the circuit
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#14
Quote by grohl1987
If Jeff Beck can use a 15w amp to play to an arena for merely a semi-overdriven tone then sure, you can use a 15w amp for metal. Yes you'll be totally cranking it and it will never clean up and the power valves won't last quite as long, but it will do it. Hey, KISS play stadiums with a 18w Tubemeister in their backline. And those are people who DO care about clean tones.

I've got a Tiny Terror I bought for home practice at first but I tried it with a drummer and bass and with a 2x12 it was loud enough to drown them out at 8/10 on the volume. If you put it with a 4x12 you'd get almost twice that volume. Sure it was stuck on a sort of punk/hard rock distortion and even with single coils it wouldn't clean up for shit, but if you don't care about cleans then it's fine.

Power and volume don't have all that much to do with each other. If you have more than 5w and you have four speakers then you can get to gig volume easy. The wattage really just effects how good it'll sound at that volume and how much headroom you'll have. Nobody buys a 100w amp for volume, you buy it because you need that much clean headroom.

The Dark Terror isn't what you want, though. You said you don't like the modern processed and scooped metal tone and that's what the Dark Terror is. The Jim Root Terror is a better fit. It's got just as many gain stages as the Dark Terror but the voicing is a little more like the Rockerverb and less like the Thunderverb so it's not as harsh and it has a full 3 band EQ so you can keep the mids up.

But for the same or even less money you can get the Jet City amps which with a good overdrive pedal give you a good older style metal tone, there's a Laney you can get which is basically the same as the Jim Root model but cheaper, you might be able to get a HK Tubemeister which again only needs a standard OD pedal to go to full metal, there's the new Peavey Valveking 20, a couple of 20w Blackstar heads, Randell make a 45w head in that price range and Bugera make loads of 100w+ amps in that price range though Bugera's older amplifiers have a bad reputation for melting their own insides. You could even pick up a second hand larger Valveking head or maybe a second hand Orange TH30.



Most helpful answer yet!

Robbgnarly: The Terror I tried sounded quite well with a drummer and a bass IMO

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Last edited by Perverockstar69 at Feb 16, 2014,
#15
Quote by Perverockstar69
Most helpful answer yet!

Robbgnarly: The Terror I tried sounded quite well with a drummer and a bass IMO

Don't get me wrong I like them tonally especially the or15, but at higher volumes I did not like them (like I would use it most of the time) But you also have to look at I play in a pretty loud Punk band and a Prog-rock/metal band I have a 20watt Krank 1980 Jr that will keep up, but it is as loud as my buddies 50watt Mesa single recto. That is because of circuit design
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#16
Yes sir, that's clear you pointed out you don't like poweramp distortion where the preamp clipping is already taking a good part of the sound. And I don't argue that because of the design some amps, despite being low wattage too, can hang onto high volume.

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#17
Taking a different approach in this thread. You may want to buy a different cabinet if you do get that, or any other, tube amp head. For €100 it's ok but it's a very budget cab which I'd go as far as to say is aimed at those people who want a 4x12 to look cool and not for any other 'sensible' reason.
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#18
Thanks a lot for all the response! I've seen a lot of mixed opinions now, so I'm still not really sure about what i'll do. I'd get the laney cab because it's cheap, in good condition, and should provide some extra volume (I think?). Since i'm on a budget and don't have a huge used larket here, I don' t have a lot of options. Now my biggest questions is: Will the Orange and Laney compete with the Peavey 6505+ 112 combo? The price difference is small so if that would be an overall better option i'd go for that.
#19
I think that 15 watt dark terror would be enough for a rehearsal. I don't know about a gig. If you run it through a 4x12 you should probably have enough power for a rehearsal.
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#20
I have TT combo that when plugged to a 2x12 overpowered my other guitarist who was with a 150 watt solid state amp and similar 2x12 cab. It was also loud enough to cut above the drummer.
I think it should be good enough but it might feel underpowered for some situations.
#21
Do some venues STILL not mic guitars??? I never encountered it unless it was like, a house party gig.
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#22
Quote by cliff_em_all
Do some venues STILL not mic guitars??? I never encountered it unless it was like, a house party gig.

Some still do not, or mix it with the current signal bleed off the stage. If you can't hear yourself on stage then most of the time the monitor mix won't fix that as usually you're going to some busted old pieces of junk that have had countless hours of work and beers spilled and usually sound like a tin can. Can't remember when was the last time I heard a good monitor in a local venue.
#23
Rob Chappers playing a Tiny Terror with a drummer on 7 watts NOT MICd.

Starts at 5:40. Amp was only set on 7 watts to start out with. Plays some blues stuff around 7:30. Use your guitar volume for variety like any good guitarist. I find it the perfect wattage for stage volume in a rock band.

http://youtu.be/P-PHqs4zBAc
Last edited by cheesefries at Feb 17, 2014,
#24
Quote by cliff_em_all
Do some venues STILL not mic guitars??? I never encountered it unless it was like, a house party gig.

Well you do live on an island the size of central Fl so your scope is pretty narrow
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#25
I live in Redneck USA where big cabs are almost mandantory. Just enough PA for vocals and nothing else.
#27
Quote by Robbgnarly
Well you do live on an island the size of central Fl so your scope is pretty narrow



Hey hey hey hey hey.

Good point, but i rarely encountered venues that didn't mic everything up. Maybe it's different scenes as well i guess, either way, it's very poor on the venues behalf.
Quote by ZanasCross
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If this even madkes sense... if yhou sig this, Iw ll kill you.
#28
Quote by cliff_em_all
Hey hey hey hey hey.

Good point, but i rarely encountered venues that didn't mic everything up. Maybe it's different scenes as well i guess, either way, it's very poor on the venues behalf.

Yeah in the USA most smaller clubs/bars have no PA at all and if they do it is for vocals only.

I run sound at a local venue (it is not real big) and all they had was a mixer, 2 monitors and 2 1 x15 mains. Now that I've been there a while I brought my PA in so there is : 2 JBL JRX125 2x15's, 2 EV 18" subs and 2 extra monitors.

There is only one other venue in the area that has a house PA but there are 6-7 other bars that do live music and none of them have any kind of PA.
2002 PRS CE22
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Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate