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#1
http://news.uk.msn.com/video-clips?videoid=6ca338c3-07f7-d334-89df-489e8e667c9d

So guts this couple are raising their song gender neutral - he wears boys clothes as well as dresses, and plays with cars as well as prams.

What do you think of this? Whilst I get the logic behind it, I can't help but think the poor guy is going to have an AWFUL time in school and will find it hard to make friends because of his parents way of raising him. I know it's not right, but other kids might not want to be around the guy who wears dresses :/

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#2
"West Midlands"

Well, says it all really.


To be honest though, yeah, that kids going to get loads of abuse from peers.
#3
His parents are ****ing stupid, no one should do that to a kid, they should know that he's gonna have problems because of it.
#5
Thankfully after pointing out on FB that he's going to get bullied, girl on FB points out:

The point is that people getting bullied because of gender stereotypes could be reduced if people stopped forcing their children into gender stereotypes


Yes I know that but he's still going to get bullied. Poor kid.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#6
horrible idea..

just horrible
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#7
I don't think kids should be forced into socially constructed gender stereotypes so I don't think it's a problem If a kids wants to wear a dress, what's the problem? The problem is how other people perceive that, not the dress wearing itself. Change that.
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#9
Quote by Kensai
I don't think kids should be forced into socially constructed gender stereotypes so I don't think it's a problem If a kids wants to wear a dress, what's the problem? The problem is how other people perceive that, not the dress wearing itself. Change that.


Well it's an admirable concept that no one is going to disagree with.

But in practise, I think it's cruel to sacrifice some of your child's most innocent years to this. We all know how petty school children can be, I remember kids being made fun of in my school for wearing shorts instead of trousers at primary school, so if this guy wheels up on his first day wearing a skirt or a dress? He's going to be marginalised and have a bad time and find it hard to make friends. Same when all the guys are playing with He-Man or Action Man or whatever and he goes and plays with the Barbies.

It's not the way things should be but sometimes you've got to be a realist a see that's whats going to happen in reality.

I'm not a psychologist though so don't take my rantings as gospel.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#10
The way I see it is that the parents are proving a point at their child's expense. Not the best parenting. Yeah, maybe this will be the thing that changes the future, but the kid is going to be messed up.
#11
Quote by CrazyMatt
horrible idea..

just horrible


+1
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#12
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Well it's an admirable concept that no one is going to disagree with.

But in practise, I think it's cruel to sacrifice some of your child's most innocent years to this. We all know how petty school children can be, I remember kids being made fun of in my school for wearing shorts instead of trousers at primary school, so if this guy wheels up on his first day wearing a skirt or a dress? He's going to be marginalised and have a bad time and find it hard to make friends. Same when all the guys are playing with He-Man or Action Man or whatever and he goes and plays with the Barbies.

It's not the way things should be but sometimes you've got to be a realist a see that's whats going to happen in reality.

I'm not a psychologist though so don't take my rantings as gospel.

Wasn't planning to

In all seriousness I don't think it's much of a big deal. Society is progressing and it's much more of a non-issue than you people think. Boys dress up in tutus in the pre-school where I work and no fucks are given by anyone. Granted that's in Sweden...

But remember all the talk about kids growing up with two moms, two dads, gay people, interacial couples and whatnot and how those kids would all get picked on? Did that really happen, did they all get bullied into oblivion? What happened was that it became more normal, and thus society included more things into the range of normal and acceptable. I think this too will in a couple of years (decades for some places...) be a non-issue and everyone will wonder why we in the first place doubted it.
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#13
Quote by Baby Joel
The way I see it is that the parents are proving a point at their child's expense. Not the best parenting. Yeah, maybe this will be the thing that changes the future, but the kid is going to be messed up.


This.

Quote by Kensai
I don't think kids should be forced into socially constructed gender stereotypes so I don't think it's a problem If a kids wants to wear a dress, what's the problem? The problem is how other people perceive that, not the dress wearing itself. Change that.


Thing is, the kid's hardly being given a choice either. Gender stereotypes for me are a non-issue. If males and females weren't fundamentally different on some levels we'd have asexual reproduction. Getting rid of these things that makes us different is some PC rubbish. Let the kid be a kid for a little while. If, when he hits his teens, he wants to start wearing dresses then let him. But don't try and make some overly-righteous point by forcing it on the kid.

EDIT: I may have overreacted here. It seems they are literally just buying girls clothes as well as boy clothes and letting him pick. Doesn't seem so bad for some reason.
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Last edited by RAB11 at Feb 18, 2014,
#14
Quote by RAB11
Thing is, the kid's hardly being given a choice either. Gender stereotypes for me are a non-issue. If males and females weren't fundamentally different on some levels we'd have asexual reproduction. Getting rid of these things that makes us different is some PC rubbish. Let the kid be a kid for a little while. If, when he hits his teens, he wants to start wearing dresses then let him. But don't try and make some overly-righteous point by forcing it on the kid.

EDIT: I may have overreacted here. It seems they are literally just buying girls clothes as well as boy clothes and letting him pick. Doesn't seem so bad for some reason.


Yeah that's the thing, they're just letting him pick instead of buying what he should traditionally wear because of his genitals.
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#15
Yeah, if the kid wants to wear dresses and makeup, who cares? What kind of asshole would stop him?
#16
Kids are actually pretty tolerant. I think this is a good idea and that the kid will be ok.


I teach teenagers, so the opposite end of the spectrum to this kid, but maybe 3-4 kids in the school community are transgender. The other kids are really tolerant and kind about it, and those that aren't know that if they make one single 'gay' comment they will get in such an avalanche of massive trouble that it isn't worth their time.

Maybe I am lucky to work in a school that doesn't tolerate bullying though. Perhaps other schools aren't so tolerant
#17
Left-wing nonsense.
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#19
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Kids are actually pretty tolerant. I think this is a good idea and that the kid will be ok.


I teach teenagers, so the opposite end of the spectrum to this kid, but maybe 3-4 kids in the school community are transgender. The other kids are really tolerant and kind about it, and those that aren't know that if they make one single 'gay' comment they will get in such an avalanche of massive trouble that it isn't worth their time.

Maybe I am lucky to work in a school that doesn't tolerate bullying though. Perhaps other schools aren't so tolerant


I guess it depends what area you live in. If they're living in a working class area of Britain full of "chavs" they're not really going to be tolerant because a lot of people are traditionalists. Same probably in a more traditional, upper class area where traditons are also very important and people are more conservative.

So the kids just got to hope he lives in a progressive, middle-class area.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#20
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I guess it depends what area you live in. If they're living in a working class area of Britain full of "chavs" they're not really going to be tolerant because a lot of people are traditionalists. Same probably in a more traditional, upper class area where traditons are also very important and people are more conservative.

So the kids just got to hope he lives in a progressive, middle-class area.


My school is pretty working class.

Kids do try and say things, but the transgender kids know to report it and the kid who makes the comments will get into enormous trouble, usually have their parents hauled in and someone senior to the school will explain why homophobia is wrong until the kid wants the ground to absolutely swallow them up.

It only has to happen once or twice for most groups to KNOW that they will get in some serious shit if they shout out 'gayy' or wahtever they were going to do.
#21
Well I went to school in middle class Essex town of Billericay but there were a lot of council house kids there but only a few kids were really economically hard off

The openly gay kid in my year was pretty well respected by the time we got to year 11, but the other gay guy just didn't come out until well after sixth form (it was obvious he was gay), but homophobic remarks weren't punished at all. "Gay" was just the generic insult really and although there was an official stance against bullying, it wasn't really enforced unless things got physical or the email/printing system got abused.

When something is as widely used an insult as "gay" among 1600 students it's hard to distill a proper sense of fear and wrongdoing into using a word. But your school seems to have a pretty strict system going on.

Still, open abuse of someone is another level entirely from schoolchildren passively deciding they're not going to be friends with someone. It's literally impossible to force someone to be friends with someone else and get included in a group.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#22
I wore pants and played with action figures when I was a kid. Oh god, what did my parents do to me!? I'm so confused.
#23
^

Oh yeah, saying "that's gay" is never going to die, I can't do anything about that. I mean kids get in trouble when the transgender kids walk past and they do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyQca1cwe54

And yeah you can't force the bigots to get on with them, only to stay out of their way, but these kids actually do alright, have a good group of friends. Interestingly it's mostly girls. I don't know if that's a coincidence or says something about school age emotional maturity or what
#24
Why don't we genetically engineer children to have nothing and then give them both to see which they like best.....

On a more serious note, why not just dress your child appropriately and when they are at an age where they are actually able to make an informed decision.....let them. The effects of growing up gender neutral don't really seem beneficial to me.
Any one care to explain how the child will be better off wearing a dress as apposed to pants?

I don't understand how gender stereotypes are a issue. I know men who act like women and women who have more balls than me. People are going to be who they are regardless of what clothes they wear. Gender stereotypes are mainly based on how people think they have to act, not dress......
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#27
What I don't get is, if they wanted him to be purely gender neutral why didn't they give him a gender neutral name? There's hundreds of them.

Screams publicity stunt to me.
#29
He's gonna have an awful time at school because his parents let him wear dresses as a 2 year old?
#31
Quote by Baby Joel
The way I see it is that the parents are proving a point at their child's expense. Not the best parenting. Yeah, maybe this will be the thing that changes the future, but the kid is going to be messed up.

Yeah for sure.

I mean if the kid actually asked to walk around in a dress and stuff then that's chill, but I'd bet they these lot fancied doing this before the kid was even born
#32
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I guess it depends what area you live in. If they're living in a working class area of Britain full of "chavs" they're not really going to be tolerant because a lot of people are traditionalists. Same probably in a more traditional, upper class area where traditons are also very important and people are more conservative.

So the kids just got to hope he lives in a progressive, middle-class area.


Yeah because all working class areas are just so full of chavs, that's what we are really innit m8? Just filthy little chavs, it amazes me how you applaud these parents for being progressive yet you demonise a an entire class of people as if it were nothing, I've seen you do it quite a few times as well. Sort it out.
#33
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Well I went to school in middle class Essex town of Billericay but there were a lot of council house kids there but only a few kids were really economically hard off

Good god, man
#35
Quote by jaybsp
Yeah because all working class areas are just so full of chavs, that's what we are really innit m8? Just filthy little chavs, it amazes me how you applaud these parents for being progressive yet you demonise a an entire class of people as if it were nothing, I've seen you do it quite a few times as well. Sort it out.


Where in my post have I applauded these people? Read my posts before commenting m8

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#36
swer down if me and jay ever catch you slipping in oceana bruv it's gonna get peak
#37
The only time I would even consider raising a child gender neutral is if they happened to be born with both sets of parts (it happens) and we we not able to figure out the gender. Then I would raise the child gender neutral.
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#38
I don't get why his parents are even doing this. Never mind gender neutrality and all that jazz, why even present the kid with the opportunity unless he asks to wear dresses and skirts. For christ sake he's two. Just putting him in the situation to choose is what will confuse the shit out of him and screw him around. Unless he goes to mommy and says "I want to wear your clothes to school" why would you think it's a good idea to confuse the shit out of him. This video alone is enough to ruin him when he gets to elementary school.
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#39
Anyone else see the irony in apparently raising him "gender neutral" but then still clearly giving him toys and outfits that are part of gender constructs?

Giving him a pink dress AND a blue action hero (for example) doesn't mean you're raising him gender neutral - you're still giving him gendered toys, just giving him both. He's not being presented with an upbringing blind to gender, he's being presented with a world still operating on a gender binary, but one in which he joins in both sides.

If you want to raise your child without him/her being hooked into gender stereotypes, try finding some toys or outfits that actually are gender neutral. Giving the option "toy gun or princess?" or "pink skirt or blue hoody?" isn't really gender neutral compared to something like "building blocks or book?", or "yellow top or green top?".
#40
Quote by MadClownDisease
Anyone else see the irony in apparently raising him "gender neutral" but then still clearly giving him toys and outfits that are part of gender constructs?

Giving him a pink dress AND a blue action hero (for example) doesn't mean you're raising him gender neutral - you're still giving him gendered toys, just giving him both. He's not being presented with an upbringing blind to gender, he's being presented with a world still operating on a gender binary, but one in which he joins in both sides.

If you want to raise your child without him/her being hooked into gender stereotypes, try finding some toys or outfits that actually are gender neutral. Giving the option "toy gun or princess?" or "pink skirt or blue hoody?" isn't really gender neutral compared to something like "building blocks or book?", or "yellow top or green top?".

They should just give him a bunch of these

And be done with it.