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#1
'Denmark bans halal and kosher slaughter as minister says ‘animal rights come before religion’

Denmark’s government has brought in a ban on the religious slaughter of animals for the production of halal and kosher meat, after years of campaigning from welfare activists.

The change to the law, announced last week and effective as of yesterday, has been called “anti-Semitism” by Jewish leaders and “a clear interference in religious freedom” by the non-profit group Danish Halal.
What you man saying to this? Personally I don't care about animals so I don't see the need for the ban, but is the right to slaughter animals as you see fit part of your religious freedom?
#2
I mean as long as they're using them for meat and they're not slaughtering white rhinos and tigers I don't really see who thought this was a good idea.
#3
Quote by willT08
What you man saying to this? Personally I don't care about animals so I don't see the need for the ban, but is the right to slaughter animals as you see fit part of your religious freedom?


I think you need a little self-proofreading before you post threads. The first sentence makes no sense. And to whom are you addressing the question?

Makes me want to move to Denmark if they've got the balls to stand up to religion in this way.
#4
Quote by Jehannum
I think you need a little self-proofreading before you post threads. The first sentence makes no sense. And to whom are you addressing the question?
Yes it does. The question is addressed to you man.
#6
Why is everyone so dumb today? It's an animal, who cares?

Snazz m9 what r u doing?
#8
they aren't exactly banning halal meat so their rights to freedom of religion still exists, just limited. it's not the worst thing ever
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#9
I don't care about religion so good on Denmark.
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#10
If it was a genuine decision I'd support it. But since Denmark is run by a right-wing fascist party you can be sure it has nothing to do with protecting animal rights. It's just a way to f**k with muslims, piss them off and gather more votes for the next election after the outraged muslims show their "uncivilized" selves in the media.
#11
I'm not educated enough on this subject to respond to this manner.

All I'm wondering is how much worse halal/kosher slaugher is compared to traditional slaughtering?
If theres next to no difference I'd say who cares what way you slaughter animals?
If there is a huge difference, with Halal/Kosher slaughter is A LOT worse, then I respect denmark.
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#12
If only other countries would follow suit
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#13
Quote by BjarnedeGraaf
I'm not educated enough on this subject to respond to this manner.

All I'm wondering is how much worse halal/kosher slaugher is compared to traditional slaughtering?
If theres next to no difference I'd say who cares what way you slaughter animals?
If there is a huge difference, with Halal/Kosher slaughter is A LOT worse, then I respect denmark.

the animal is conscious. they slit its throat and hang it to bleed to death.
#14
It is highly debatable whether the animals suffer more during a halal slaughter or not. Depending on your own views, you'll defend different side of the argument without any facts. If they'd really care about animal rights, they would have banned meat.
#15
Thats a very ballsy move. Kudos to Ukraine.

But I couldn't see this kind of thing happening in a country like Canada, the UK or US just because of the amount of Muslim and Jewish immigrants/population. Islamists and Jews make up not even 1% of the population in Ukraine. If halal and kosher slaughter was banned in a country where more than 1% actually needed to eat like that according to religion this definitely wouldn't fly.

Edit: I don't know why I started talking about Ukraine, but same thing goes for Denmark. Muslims make up 2% of the population and Jews far less than that. While Islamists are the second most represented religion in Denmark, thats still only 3% of the population at most that this effects.
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Last edited by bifteksupernova at Feb 18, 2014,
#16
Quote by captainsnazz
the animal is conscious. they slit its throat and hang it to bleed to death.



Isn't an animal always conscious when he gets killed....?
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#17
what you chattting about ukraine haha

but for real snaze I don't care because it's just some shite animal. if it didn't wanna get merked it should get better at not rolling in it's own shit for a laugh haha
#18
Quote by BjarnedeGraaf
I'm not educated enough on this subject to respond to this manner.

All I'm wondering is how much worse halal/kosher slaugher is compared to traditional slaughtering?
If theres next to no difference I'd say who cares what way you slaughter animals?
If there is a huge difference, with Halal/Kosher slaughter is A LOT worse, then I respect denmark.

Well, what I got from the article that I had to look up since TS is a knob, is that Denmark already bans the slaugthering of conscious animals. For the meat to be Halal/Kosher, the animal needs to be slaughtered while conscious, and Denmark will no longer exempt religious rituals from the normal slaughtering-rules.

Also, based on some very brief research, neither religion deny vegetarianism as a possible diet, so it's not as if it will be impossible to practice the religions properly in Denmark anymore.
Quote by BjarnedeGraaf
Isn't an animal always conscious when he gets killed....?

Nah, not in civilised countries, apparently.
Quote by MetalMullet
If they'd really care about animal rights, they would have banned meat.
If they really cared about animal-rights, they'd do everything possible to improve animal conditions. We both know that Denmark would not be getting anywhere close to a democratic support for such a ban.
Last edited by lncognito at Feb 18, 2014,
#19
So they're cool with animal killing as long as the people doing it aren't religious, got it.
#20
Quote by willT08
what you chattting about ukraine haha

but for real snaze I don't care because it's just some shite animal. if it didn't wanna get merked it should get better at not rolling in it's own shit for a laugh haha


Lol just wait till ur past 80, you'll be rolling in shit daily
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#21
Quote by Wormholes
So they're cool with animal killing as long as the people doing it aren't religious, got it.

They're cool with animal killing as long as it's done as ethically as possible, presumably.
I'm not fully familiar with the practices for making halal/kosher meat, but having the animal unconscious when it gets killed seems like a very reasonable law and I don't see why religious practices should take precedence over national law.
#22
Quote by lncognito
If they really cared about animal-rights, they'd do everything possible to improve animal conditions. We both know that Denmark would not be getting anywhere close to a democratic support for such a ban.

If they really cared about animal rights they'd probably stop killing the ****ers. Preventing a slow and painful death from an arbitrary rule is a good step though
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Last edited by Cianyx at Feb 18, 2014,
#23
Mans opinion is, as long as animals gets a sweet life, makes good meat, and a humane death, then it's all good. If this is avoided man wants to find the slaughter house manager and merk the ting.
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Last edited by cliff_em_all at Feb 18, 2014,
#24
Quote by lncognito
They're cool with animal killing as long as it's done as ethically as possible, presumably.
I'm not fully familiar with the practices for making halal/kosher meat, but having the animal unconscious when it gets killed seems like a very reasonable law and I don't see why religious practices should take precedence over national law.

Yeah basically this.

But also as mentioned, if slaughtering animals in that way isn't Kosher/Halal then people who care about that can always just... not eat meat at all. Crazy idea, I know.

It's not "we have to eat animals killed in this way", it's "if we're eating animals they have to be killed in this way". You can't have them killed in that way so... just don't eat meat?


Admittedly from what I've read, we should be cautious about Denmark's actual motivations and the like. I think there are quite strong general anti-Islamic feelings in Denmark, and whilst this rule might make sense in itself, you do have question the motivations behind it.
#25
Quote by cliff_em_all
Mans opinion is, as long as animals gets a sweet life, makes good meat, and a humane death, then it's all good. If this is avoided man wants to find the slaughter house manager and merk the ting.

dunknow the dun
#26
Quote by MadClownDisease
Yeah basically this.

But also as mentioned, if slaughtering animals in that way isn't Kosher/Halal then people who care about that can always just... not eat meat at all. Crazy idea, I know.

It's not "we have to eat animals killed in this way", it's "if we're eating animals they have to be killed in this way". You can't have them killed in that way so... just don't eat meat?


Admittedly from what I've read, we should be cautious about Denmark's actual motivations and the like. I think there are quite strong general anti-Islamic feelings in Denmark, and whilst this rule might make sense in itself, you do have question the motivations behind it.


I'm with this one.
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#27
Quote by willT08
dunknow the dun



Mans is vexed.
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#28
Quote by lncognito
If they really cared about animal-rights, they'd do everything possible to improve animal conditions. We both know that Denmark would not be getting anywhere close to a democratic support for such a ban.


True, but there are other ways, way more efficient, to improve animal conditions. Ironically, the slaughter itself is the least stressful on the animal. F*ck, I could imagine that they've been longing for the day they'd be slaughtered. The way the animals are kept, the conditions on the farms, how they deal with the animals BEFORE slaughter has a lot more affect on their "well-being" than the actual slaughter. And those are all possible improvements that could have been agreed upon.

That's why I'm convinced that banning halal has nothing to do with animal rights, for me it's obvious.
#29
Quote by sage76
I don't care about religion so good on Denmark.

I don't care about Denmark so good on religion.
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#30
I find the way that animals are treated leading up to slaughter to be much more inhumane and disturbing than the way they're slaughtered.
#31
Quote by MadClownDisease
Admittedly from what I've read, we should be cautious about Denmark's actual motivations and the like. I think there are quite strong general anti-Islamic feelings in Denmark, and whilst this rule might make sense in itself, you do have question the motivations behind it.
Let's turn the table and have me agreeing with you instead, now.

Yeah, this very much a legitimate concern, but I only bothered looking up the specifics of the law.

And I am very sympathetic towards the affected religious communities. This totally sucks for them, and I understand that they respond to this negatively and with outrage. It forces them to make a significant change to how they live their lives. It's just that I'm with the animals on this one.
#32
i don't feel strongly either way, but religion sucks yada yada so yay i guess
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#33
Denmark will change this law when there are no more tasty kebabs to eat.
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#34
Ritual slaughter is known as shechitah, and the person who performs the slaughter is called a “shochet,” both from the Hebrew root Shin-Chet-Tav, meaning to destroy or kill. The method of slaughter is a quick, deep stroke across the throat with a perfectly sharp blade with no nicks or unevenness. This method is painless, causes unconsciousness within two seconds, and is widely recognized as the most humane method of slaughter possible



http://meat.tamu.edu/ansc-307-honors/kosher-halal/


Obviously people disagree with that assessment, or we wouldn't be having this discussion.
#35
Quote by MetalMullet
True, but there are other ways, way more efficient, to improve animal conditions. Ironically, the slaughter itself is the least stressful on the animal. F*ck, I could imagine that they've been longing for the day they'd be slaughtered. The way the animals are kept, the conditions on the farms, how they deal with the animals BEFORE slaughter has a lot more affect on their "well-being" than the actual slaughter. And those are all possible improvements that could have been agreed upon.

That's why I'm convinced that banning halal has nothing to do with animal rights, for me it's obvious.
True, but every little step helps - and is necessary. Admittedly, I am not familiar with the conditions of animals raised for slaugther in Denmark, but I'd be surprised if improving their living-conditions would not be more significant than their death-conditions.

As for the last part, I really am not sure. It's seems to be reasonable conclusion to make, especially since this was a decision - not allowing exceptions for religious rituals when it comes to that law - that directly affected only those communities. I guess I just want to cling to my naivity, and believe the decision was made for the right reason. I mean, the fact that the exception was there in the first place can be seen to indicate that, right? Right, guys?
Quote by daytripper75
http://meat.tamu.edu/ansc-307-honors/kosher-halal/


Obviously people disagree with that assessment, or we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Opening that link, I'm immediatly meet with three logos referring to Texas. Based on that only, maybe that isn't the most objective source when it comes to animal welfare.
(I'll be reading have now read it properly, I just felt like some old-fashioned racism.)

Edit: There's a certain melancholic irony to this whole thing, when one considers that part of the reasons for these rituals in the first place might actually have been animal-welfare. I mean, with the means available to them around the dawn of both religions, the process required probably was the most humane one.
Last edited by lncognito at Feb 18, 2014,
#36
Quote by I.O.T.M
I don't care about Denmark so good on religion.

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You sure about that one, pal?

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#37
Quote by USCENDONE BENE
"Location: Banterbury"

You sure about that one, pal?

#shitbantz


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Quote by ZanasCross
I'm now so drunk that even if my mom had given me a blow job at aeg 2, i'd be like I'm a pmp, butches.!

If this even madkes sense... if yhou sig this, Iw ll kill you.
#38
Good on Denmark. I realize that to most people, no one gives a shit about animal rights. I don't care what excuses or accusations are thrown on either side, but some silly ritual is not as important as decreasing the pain experienced by the animals.
#39
Quote by USCENDONE BENE
"Location: Banterbury"

You sure about that one, pal?

#shitbantz

"Location: Hull"

I'm surprised you've got internet access up there in the bleak north of England.

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#40
Quote by Cianyx
they aren't exactly banning words so their rights to freedom of speech still exists, just limited. it's not the worst thing ever


Still happy with that?
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